Why an ether/aether?

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Alton,
Credit where credit is due: you are a darned sight better at explaining this science stuff than you are at the philosophical. I actually understood most of what you wrote.
I shall continue to follow your progress but for the time being I'm off back to the past to think about Prometheus and Pandora.

[altonhare]

Hi Alton,
Credit where credit is due: you are a darned sight better at explaining this science stuff than you are at the philosophical. I actually understood most of what you wrote.
I shall continue to follow your progress but for the time being I'm off back to the past to think about Prometheus and Pandora.

Thanks, refreshing to have a productive discourse with you.

[bdw000]

You still have not answered why a chain STRETCHING to accomodate two atoms moving further apart is not deformation.

I never, ever, not once ever, said the chain stretches to accommodate the motion of two atoms. You either did not read my explanation of how atoms move or have not quite understood it yet. Perhaps reread the responses I gave you before and ask a question specific to that response, so I can locate precisely where the miscommunication is.

Well, I am in the ether thread. I have not been searching for "how atoms move." Not my pressing interest at this time :)The point is not that "you said it" (and please note that I did NOT say that YOU "said it"), but that reading comments in this thread leads to that conclusion. You say "all atoms are connected by threads/chains." Most people think that atoms "move." What am I supposed to conclude? Or would you prefer that I tune into your thoughts?

You have several threads going, and this one is now 14 pages long.

It is absolutely certain that I missed something.

When I searched for your posts and the words move, moves, or motion, there were more than 10 pages of listings.

I read a bunch of them, I found nothing at all that even approaches "convincing" (for "how atoms move") but concede that I probably didn't see the "right ones."

I don't have time to wade through all that.

Either point the way to your explanation (of how atoms move) or fail to convince me. If you don't have time for that, that's OK. But it seems to me you could probably do that faster than typing in the above reply.

[altonhare]

bdw:

I apologize for my rudeness, I actually thought you were someone else who I just got done explaining this to (biknewb I think). I confused two names cuz they both started with "b". I appreciate your effort to find the answer.

The best way is a demonstration. Get a flexible wire/string/rope/etc. Put a loop in it and lay it on the table in front of you. Fasten the ends down securely with tape or something. You will find that the loop can move back and forth along this string with no net translation of the string itself. Just hold either side of the loop and move one hand up and the other down, the loop will slide back and forth. This is what we mean when we say that an atom/particle "moves like a wave". This is how atoms in our universe move. Light is the torsional motion of this chain. Since light is transferred along this chain, and this chain engages in no net translational motion, we always perceive the speed of light as universally constant.

[bdw000]

Thanks alton.

Can't deny the ingenuity of that explanation

Now I don't have that huge logical block to your argument.

Still waiting on BG's book.

[altonhare]

Thanks alton.

Can't deny the ingenuity of that explanation

Now I don't have that huge logical block to your argument.

Still waiting on BG's book.

The book is 1/3 a kick in modern physics' nuts, 1/3 thread theory, and 1/3 application of BG's theory and philosophy to God and other "social" type topics.

[lizzie]

Now repeat after me, boys and girls: "There is no such thing as the aether." Why hang yourself with string when you can levitate in the aether.

Free Energy, Gravity and the Aether
http://www.keelynet.com/davidson/npap1.htm

The Current State of the Unorthodox Science Community:

What is happening in the science community is a number of scientists from all branches of science and engineering have become disillusioned with the suppression of scientific information within the orthodox science community.

Many disillusioned scientists, engineers, and technicians, have taken to doing experiments on their own to prove or disprove ideas and theories not acceptable to the orthodox community. These experimenters are proving concepts which are, in some cases, far beyond where currently accepted science is at the present time.

The following summarizes a few of the breakthroughs of what I believe the "underground" science community has achieved and its current status.

1. Superluminal energy transmission - demonstrated at the 1988 International Tesla Symposium10. This effectively negates Special and General Relativity. There are many other examples of superluminal effects; however, its nice to see someone has got it down to being able to demonstrate it. Tesla proved superluminal effects during his experiments at Colorado Springs also.

2. Working free energy devices - examples are the Floyd Sweet VTA, the Hyde electrostatic OUO motor (claimed but not demonstrated), the Patterson Cold Fusion cell, and the Takahashi magnetic motor. There are also well documented cases of historical free energy devices. In a myoptic view these devices negate the basic tenents of thermodynamics; however, with the view of a universal energy rich aether as part of the equation there are no truly closed systems and themo's second law still applies. We merely have energy exchange with the aether.

3. Demonstrated anti-gravity effects - Joe Parr Gravity Wheel and the Floyd Sweet VTA in special mode goes anti-gravitic.

4. Low energy transmutation of atomic elements - Dr. Backrus (Texas State University) cold fusion and transmutation experiments, Joe Champion's precious metal synthesis, Kervan's "Biological Transmutation of the Elements" 12.

5. Ball lightning production - demonstrated at the 1992 International Tesla Symposium by Dr. Corum (Professor of Electrical Engineering at West Virginia University) 13.

6. Conversion of EM to a pure aetheric stress wave and transmitted energy in this mode efficiently and effectively - John Bedini 14, 15.

7. Developed detectors which detect non-hertzian energies - Dan Davidson and his dielectric gravity wave detector, Joe Parr and his DNC, Parr and Davidson and the gravity wheel experiments, Gallimore and his dielectric gravity and aetheric stress detectors.

8. The current status is that there are now estimated to be 2000 -3000 active science experimenters world wide doing unorthodox research and experiments on technologies beyond the currently accepted paradigms of science. We now have our own symposiums and conferences (about 10 of these per year). We collaborate, trade information, and communicate over the computer networks (i.e., the internet and BBSes) and normal mail systems. Many of us have pretty much given up on the orthodox "science" community and we are cutting our own path into new vistas of science and technology. We echo the refrain - "to boldly go where none have gone before".

9. Where we are going - It is my firm opinion that we are on the verge of a major revolution in science and technology. In almost every area of scientific endeavor we have major breakthroughs happening regularly. If you thought that science and technology took some major leaps in the last 50 years you haven't seen anything yet. When any one of the above discoveries becomes well known the positive effects on our civilization will defy description.

Conclusion:

The beauty of these discoveries is that they are all interrelated so a synergistic effect will be produced whereby a breakthrough in one area will vastly improve our understanding in other areas.

For example, a breakthrough in gravitational physics will provide a deeper understanding in nuclear physics, free energy production, superluminal energy production, aetheric engineering, etc.

"May the aether be with you"!

[lizzie]

Atonhare said:

What is aether?

Since everything in the universe is physically connected, allowing rational causal explanations for light and gravity, I think the "ether" can finally die quietly. The aether is an invalid, dead hypothesis.

Free Energy, Gravity and the Aether
http://www.keelynet.com/davidson/npap1.htm

Over the years the existence and understanding of the aether has evolved as the basis for gravity and free energy effects at a micro and macro level.

Laboratory experiments have shown that superluminal energy and information transfer has been effectively accomplished via aetheric engineering, which effectively eliminates the theory of relativity and its absurd views of physics and cosmology.

The structure of the aether is summarized, as a superfluidic medium, including interrelationships of many of the basic universal constants describing physical phenomena with magnetic, electrical, and gravitic formulas.

The author summarizes experiments that he has carried out, as well as others. Also summarized will be the author's current view of where the maverick ("behind the scenes") science network has moved in engineering the aether.

The essence is that a worldwide, loosely associating group of engineers, physicists, chemists, and assorted garage shop experimenters have moved well beyond the stifling shrouds of the orthodox "science" community.

Experiments have proven that the aether exists, and that it is engineerable, even to the extent that gravity is controllable, free energy is possible, superluminal energy/information transfer is readily accomplished, and a plethora of new inventions in energy generation, transportation, and communication are now being engineered for the marketplace.

My research and discoveries have led me to characterize the aether as follows:

1. A superfluidic particulate medium which pervades all space.

2. A medium, which in its various modes, is the building block of the physical universe.

3. A medium, which, in one of its modes, is responsible for gravity and inertia.

4. A medium which is controllable by our mind and can be manipulated my our thoughts.

5. A medium which can be controlled by geometric shapes.

There are some fantastic inventions in the works all based on the aether (which Alton Hare says doesn’t exist). Imagine that! These “delusional” scientists have built their inventions based on an imaginary force. LOL! Shall we hang these "lunatics" by their heels with strings!

So who is correct, boys and girls? A physical manifestation of "hot air" or the subtle manifestations of the aether? Hint: The "physical manifestation" simply makes noise; the "subtle manifestation" plays The Music of the Spheres."

Can you affort NOT to believe in the aether?

"Where we are going - It is my firm opinion that we are on the verge of a major revolution in science and technology. In almost every area of scientific endeavor we have major breakthroughs happening regularly. If you thought that science and technology took some major leaps in the last 50 years you haven't seen anything yet. When any one of the above discoveries becomes well known the positive effects on our civilization will defy description."

Check them and out!

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 195#p14741

MAY THE AETHER BE WITH YOU!

Sing! Sing! Sing! Sing to PHI, Pi and e and Sacred Geometry!

Sing to the AETHER!

[altonhare]

Can you affort NOT to believe in the aether?

Easily. Especially since the rope hypothesis explains light, gravity, and magnetism.

There are some fantastic inventions in the works all based on the aether (which Alton Hare says doesn’t exist). Imagine that! These “delusional” scientists have built their inventions based on an imaginary force. LOL! Shall we hang these "lunatics" by their heels with strings!

The first caveman to make fire may have called it "uugabug". Who cares what word you bandy about when you invent something? We're trying to explain observations here.

Lets see, how does the aether "explain" gravity/inertia?

[quote="http://www.keelynet.com/davidson/npap1.htm"3. A medium, which, in one of its modes, is responsible for gravity and inertia.[/quote]

Wow! This word aether is responsible for gravity and inertia. I sure am glad all that's cleared up.

What do they have to say about what the aether actually IS?

="http://www.keelynet.com/davidson/npap1.htm"1. A superfluidic particulate medium which pervades all space.

A bunch of continuous particles. How do a bunch of tiny billiard balls result in gravity and inertia!? They are "superfluid" by which I assume it is meant that all collisions are perfectly elastic. How can such things pull on each other? How can they stick to each other to form clumps of matter that we observe?

Oh wait, now I'm asking real questions. Better stick to the "aether is responsible for..." and just leave it at that!

I guess, since some people did some really cool experiments and called "whatever is causing this" by the word "aether" we should do the same.

I guess, since ancient people thought there must be something "pervasive" all around them and they called it ether, we should too, instead of brainstorming more specific and clear hypotheses with explanatory power.

Or we could just correlate observations with equations and bandy about a popular term.

[kevin]

Altonhare,
I think thee doth protest too loudly about the aether.
I consider We will better comprehend this elusive STUFF when the TIME is ready for ourselves to comprehend, I sense that is very close at hand, very close indeed.
So how do I sense?
Kevin

[altonhare]

Altonhare,
I think thee doth protest too loudly about the aether.
I consider We will better comprehend this elusive STUFF when the TIME is ready for ourselves to comprehend, I sense that is very close at hand, very close indeed.
So how do I sense?
Kevin

Methinks onest shouldst thinkest for onest selfthesadhtsdlihfdslfs.

[bdw000]

Regarding LIzzie's post above linking to kellynet.

That old T. Townsend Brown "levitating capacitor" bit: I have a faint memory from about a year or two ago that the TV show Mythbusters showed that those "lifters" (made of balsa wood and aluminum foil) did not work in a vacuum. Someone told me that they "decided" (I have no idea how much serious science was involved in the show) that the lifters work because of the ionization of the air right above the charged lifters. It looks to me like this explanation could well turn out to be the case for T.T. Brown's capacitors that lose a little bit of weight.

Anyone have any comments, confirming the above, or refuting it?

Also, the experiments described on the page above that Lizzie linked to did not seem to me to "prove the ether." JUst because a light turns on when you push a button does not prove anything. Some will say its because of electricity. Some say it's because of evil spirits. Some will say it's ether flow being picked up by the wires in the box. The light turning on really does not tell us much about what is really going on. YOu need to know much more detail about the experiment to even BEGIN to claim "proof." Modern physics has made the mistake of claiming that the light turning on is proof of whatever pet theory they happen to want to prove at the moment. "Dissident" scientists will not get very far if that is also all they can come up with.

I am not arguing that "there is no ether." I have no knowledge of the matter, even though I am a big fan of the ether. I am just saying that the linked experiments do not seem to be very helpful. Just because the resistance of some coil changes over 24 hrs does not in ANY way prove that "the ether" is what's causing it. It could very well be that is what is causing it. But the simply fact of the change in coil resistance ALONE proves nothing at all about ether. With 8000 turns of wire, it could be as simple as temperature changes in the room (I'm not saying I know that, just pointing out the possibilities). It may indeed be a new and very interesting (and possibly useful) phenomenon, but I don't see that it has been PROVEN that ether is the cause.

That's why EU seems so promising to me. The EU proponents do not claim to "know" "what electriicity is." They are just saying that something that we all can see and feel with our physical bodies, is probably responsible for astronomical phenomena (instead of gravity). This is orders of maginitude simpler, and therefore more convincing, than trying to claim knowledge of the subatomic.

[bboyer]

Firstly, thanks to bdw000 for returning the discussion to some of the issues involved.

Secondly, much of the foregoing banter reeks of the same sort of quality of "discussion" that occurs amongst zealots squabbling over political and religious issues such as evolution and the like. The childish back-and-forth baiting and taunting is getting old, folks. If you don't have the good sense to put a cork in it and either leave it unsaid publicly or to take it backlines via Private Messaging, email, or whatever then I am going to either issue temporary bans or make these nether-region boards read-only to the worse offenders and "cheer leaders" of the nonsense (and you definitely know who you are). No public or private replies to this warning is necessary, nor wanted, as I will not be responding to endless make-wrong and defensive babble over who said what or who is right-and-wrong and why. Sorry, no time for it and not interested.

Thirdly, it is to be hoped that all who joined the Thunderbolts Forum are here on the same terms: to learn, to share information and viewpoints, to join with others of like mind in an atmosphere of friendly and amicable open discourse, inquiry, and exploration of the topics all of us hold near-and-dear to our hearts. If the desire is only a one-sided, didactic impulse to instruct others, to engage in hair-splitting critique of the perceived flaws of others' manner of thinking and teach them what and how to think, then one should either create their own web site for that purpose, or join any number of other available forums where that is the standard approach.

And, finally:

Personal or ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated, under any circumstances. If you disagree with something which has been posted, address the post, not the poster.

Always treat fellow users, moderators and site administrators with respect. Users come here to discuss matters of common interest in an environment of friendliness and freedom from abuse.

Rules & Guidelines

Read the damn Rules & Guidelines, abide by them, keep the discussions amicable, or take it elsewhere.

[lizzie]

Modern Scientific Theories of the ancient Aether
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aetherqr.htm

Alt-Energy
http://www.atl2.netfirms.com/engy/#Ther ... 0Generator

Joe Cell
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Joe_Cell

A Joe Cell is an electrolysis cell built with concentric stainless steel pipes. In one configuration, the pipes have diameters of 1, 2, 3, and 4 inches. Sometimes a five-inch pipe is also included. Different theories hold that the cylinders should be between 4" and 10" long. There are many theories of how the cell works. Among those who believe in Orgone energy, the Joe Cell is believed to be an Orgone Accumulator.

An operating cell progresses through a series of stages, the first of which is simple electrolysis, the second is referred to as the seeding stage, in which the cell builds up a charge in the water, which eventually reaches a point where the cell will run an engine. There are higher stages that supposedly can be achieved. For example, in stage 4 the cell is said to exhibit antigravity effects that reduce the weight of the vehicle in which the cell is installed.

FLOYD SWEET'S VTA UNIT
http://merlib.org/node/5935

The Vacuum Triode Amplifier (VTA) invented by Floyd Sweet consists of two ferrite magnets and two to four coreless wire coils. It is self powered in the preferred configuration and produces in excess of one KW of 120 VRMS 60 HZ power in the form of energy that resembles electricity. This energy is referred to as negative energy. The VTA development history, its anti-gravity characteristics, negative energy properties, and some of the personalities involved are discussed.

THE ADAMS THERMO-MOTOR GENERATOR
http://www.aethmogen.com/pubs/app2001/3 ... 1txt.shtml

This is a super power machine, the first of its kind in the world, with the capability of manifesting massive heat power internally in such a way that it precludes any damage due to heat affecting the rare earth magnets in its rotor system. The rotor is designed and engineered in such a way that it gates massive aetheric energy in the form of heat which is transferred by the rotor system to the water jacket system of the machine stators. The machine rotor carries out this operation whilst itself remaining relatively cool - at most, a few degrees above ambient - whilst the heat which is manifested on load is capable of reaching into hundreds of degrees and kilowatts of power. On account of the foregoing mastered conditions of temperature control and transfer of manifested power to the stator water jacket system, the life span of the rare earth magnets remains unchanged, i.e., no deterioration takes place. The rotor of this super power machine was invented late 1995 and perfected into a machine in early 1996.

The Edwin Gray Pulsed Capacitor Discharge Electric Engine
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/grayphotos.htm

Many have thought that the machine had been destroyed by Federal Authorities in bid to stop Edwin Gray in bringing to this world this device, but parts of the machine have now been discovered on an electronics store junk pile these are the photographs of an researcher who is trying to get the Gray machine put together and working again.

Curtain Lifted on Kipper Tricks
http://www.phact.org/e/z/KipperScam.htm

REMOTE ARIZONA, USA - Marcus Kipper has been demonstrating a technology that purportedly yields up to ten times the power output over what is put in. After five trips of ten hours each and $14,000 later, Wesley Crosiar of California says he has uncovered the secret to the device in what appears to be blatant trickery -- hidden wireless microwave transmission of power. Teslian "frequency" refers to the repetition of pulses per second. Teslian "resonance" refers to conditions in which aether flows with little or no resistance through systems, whether proximal or widely separated.

.

John Bedini's Web pages
http://www.icehouse.net/john1/

20 Bedini-Bearden Years
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinibearden.html

Dark Matter and Dark Energy in the Universe
http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/ener ... age_id=481

Engineers were enraged. Those who had missed his most early shift from alternations to impulses, failed to comprehend the vast distinction between "stationary waves" and "standing waves". The quizzical use of specific terms such as these was a Tesla trademark, one designed to puzzle the minds of those who criticized him the most. With the exception of a very few colleagues who continually made related discoveries in aether physics, most academes had chosen to remain totally ignorant of the new study area. This for example was the case with the Teslian use of the term "frequency" and of "resonance" words which had completely different meanings for Tesla.

[junglelord]

Regarding LIzzie's post above linking to kellynet.

That old T. Townsend Brown "levitating capacitor" bit: I have a faint memory from about a year or two ago that the TV show Mythbusters showed that those "lifters" (made of balsa wood and aluminum foil) did not work in a vacuum. Someone told me that they "decided" (I have no idea how much serious science was involved in the show) that the lifters work because of the ionization of the air right above the charged lifters. It looks to me like this explanation could well turn out to be the case for T.T. Brown's capacitors that lose a little bit of weight.

Anyone have any comments, confirming the above, or refuting it?

Also, the experiments described on the page above that Lizzie linked to did not seem to me to "prove the ether." JUst because a light turns on when you push a button does not prove anything. Some will say its because of electricity. Some say it's because of evil spirits. Some will say it's ether flow being picked up by the wires in the box. The light turning on really does not tell us much about what is really going on. YOu need to know much more detail about the experiment to even BEGIN to claim "proof." Modern physics has made the mistake of claiming that the light turning on is proof of whatever pet theory they happen to want to prove at the moment. "Dissident" scientists will not get very far if that is also all they can come up with.

I am not arguing that "there is no ether." I have no knowledge of the matter, even though I am a big fan of the ether. I am just saying that the linked experiments do not seem to be very helpful. Just because the resistance of some coil changes over 24 hrs does not in ANY way prove that "the ether" is what's causing it. It could very well be that is what is causing it. But the simply fact of the change in coil resistance ALONE proves nothing at all about ether. With 8000 turns of wire, it could be as simple as temperature changes in the room (I'm not saying I know that, just pointing out the possibilities). It may indeed be a new and very interesting (and possibly useful) phenomenon, but I don't see that it has been PROVEN that ether is the cause.

That's why EU seems so promising to me. The EU proponents do not claim to "know" "what electriicity is." They are just saying that something that we all can see and feel with our physical bodies, is probably responsible for astronomical phenomena (instead of gravity). This is orders of maginitude simpler, and therefore more convincing, than trying to claim knowledge of the subatomic.

The Bifeld/Brown Effect is more then Ion Wind, it is Electrogravitic. Kevin and I are both friends of Linda Brown.
Her Dads work was Above Top Secret. He entered the deepest and highest rating on Classified Technology.
Telsa did not and was one man alone. You need a lot of money to do these things. Since 1935 this has been Classified Information. It was at that time that the world needed a reorganization of the SI Units as we then had Plancks Constant, Compton Wavelength, c, Coluombs Constants, and knew what an electron and proton was and here in lies the sticky mess modern physics is in, the SI Units of measure ment arrangment is based on a period when they did not know of the electron which is non sequitar once the atom is understood at the quantum level....yet the organization of the SI Units waited until Dave Thomson introduced the Aether Physics Model, something that anyone could have done since 1935. It produces itself. SI Units reorganized reveal the innear workings of the EU. So charge is properly quantified. Yet Maxwells work was deemed too difficult so it was reorganized, instead of the SI Units.... so we had the Heaviside Dumbdown of Maxwell while Telsa had proven Maxwells Original Quaternions Theory of Scalar EM and EM Impulse Current and infact made the first real Star Machine, the Impulse Magnifying Transmitter. Tesla knew the universe was a Aether Field and like Birkeland knew it was a EU. He knew that Scalar Technology was instantanious transmisson, the first Quantam Entanglement device as well as the first Star Machine. However the dumbdown worked and we have the closed circuit design that hides the true nature of EM, ES and Aether. The gravity universe somehow was part of the dumbdown and the EU was ignored. I believe this is true because of the technology that develops from this new knowledge. This is Highly Classified Material since 1935. The true nature of the universe has some more public patents beyond Tesla...and this is Electrogravitics of Mr Brown.

So while Mr Tesla struggled alone and was publicly discredited dispite the fact he had created the 20th century via rotating magnetic fields and AC Current, TT Brown had made other discoveries. Huge implications that entered him into Classified Work from a early age. He discoverd Electrogravitics. The North Pole of the Capacitor converges space. This cause the South Pole to chase the North. That is not Ion Wind effect. This requires extremely high voltage and high frequency. Only Tesla and Brown were doing this stuff. A few others have replicated the extreme high voltage work of Brown. It is Electogravitic. Lifters are Electrogravatic as well as Ion Wind.....Just ramp up the voltage to extremely high levels with pulsed extremely high frequency to see the Electrogravitics on Capacitors in oil....where is the Ion Wind now?
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... f=8&t=1320

No judgement on the two men but Mr Tesla never sold out. I do not mean that in a derogritory way in any means.
Mr Brown did become a Agent of Classified Technology and a Scientist that worked for the Governments Above Top Secret Programs on Electrogravitics and possible the Philadelphia Experment. What we do know of the real structure of space is available and you can make technology with this theory. This however requires money and also acceptance or you will be a man alone. They can seperate you and keep you from the public press. Water cars, water power, scalar technology, magnetic drive electric cars via Spintronics, and countless other ways we could have been free along time ago.

It is about enslavement. This is no laughing matter anymore. The world is suffering, people are suffering, yet wars continue. The military industrial complex and its secrets both are killing us and could save us. What a mess we are in.