There are 2 kinds of moovment. (1) Moovment relative to an observer. (2) Moovment relative to the aether, ie relative to an observer who feels an aetherwind of zero kmps (ie who haz zero speed in the absolute reference frame).Roshi wrote:If two spaceships approach each other, without any acceleration, which of them is moving?
Some may say: "the spaceships can check the stars to see if they are moving or not in relation to the Universe". So - one of the spaceships is not moving in relation to the Universe. But can you say that it's not that spaceship + entire Universe moving while the other is not?
Without a history of acceleration of each object, since the moment of "creation", you cannot say who is moving and who is not. Let's say the Universe is created, and it contains those 2 spaceships only. Then - the one that accelerated first, is moving. But once it stops accelerating - does it make any difference? Again - without checking the history of accelerations, nobody can tell which spaceship is moving.
So, what is "speed"? A change in distance between objects. In "time" of course, everything happens in "time" - meaning there is an order of events.
I am asking this question because - according to mainstream "dilation laws", special things happen on the "moving" spaceship, and not on the "stationary" spaceship.
"Speed" does not exist in fact, as a phenomenon. Movement exists, and we can count some ticks and measure distance traveled during a number of clock ticks. But speed - is a derived quantity, it does nothing. Else I ask - how does it accomplish those mass, length or "time" dilations, if we can't even know who is moving.
This is the key to the problem that relativists cant seem to fathom out. According to the travelling twin, every movement in every direction is always acceleration. Which means according to relativity his time can only ever be slowed. The only way for your local time to "speed up" again is for the twin to experience NEGATIVE acceleration, which is not the same as deceleration. The expectation that just because you travel back to where you started, time runs normally again is completely absurd. Who is giving the twin's body instructions about the direction he is moving relative to where he started so he knows he's decelerating (relative to the start point) and therefore time should start speeding up again? God?Roshi wrote:Does the Universe keep track of changes in direction? How ? Where is this in the time dilation formula?
That happened to me at the lights. I thort i woz going backwards. But i found that i woz standing still, & the VW woz going round me in circles.Xantos wrote:This is a problem of information.
Have you ever twitched at the red light stop, because other car next to you started going and you thought you're going reverse while actually you stood still? It's the same thing. In the absence of your own information about your own movement, there is no way to know who exactly is moving.
If you know you accelerated, then you know you're moving, therefore you know for a fact that at least you are moving and there is no problem. If you just teleported into one of the spaceships, without instruments measuring speed or knowing beforehand, if that particular ship was accelerating, there is no way of knowing which one is moving.
Don't try to conflate all the rest of physical effects with "the two spaceships not knowing which one's moving" problem.
Speed is a translational rate of change of position. And this translation of particles through 3D space causes other atoms / particles to give way and produce all sorts of effects, effectively very similar from quantum to macro level - Fractal Principle.
So i fixed that, but then i found that we were both standing still except that i woz spinning.crawler wrote:That happened to me at the lights. I thort i woz going backwards. But i found that i woz standing still, & the VW woz going round me in circles.Xantos wrote:This is a problem of information.
Have you ever twitched at the red light stop, because other car next to you started going and you thought you're going reverse while actually you stood still? It's the same thing. In the absence of your own information about your own movement, there is no way to know who exactly is moving.
If you know you accelerated, then you know you're moving, therefore you know for a fact that at least you are moving and there is no problem. If you just teleported into one of the spaceships, without instruments measuring speed or knowing beforehand, if that particular ship was accelerating, there is no way of knowing which one is moving.
Don't try to conflate all the rest of physical effects with "the two spaceships not knowing which one's moving" problem.
Speed is a translational rate of change of position. And this translation of particles through 3D space causes other atoms / particles to give way and produce all sorts of effects, effectively very similar from quantum to macro level - Fractal Principle.
Thanx. I had a look. And i looked at links, & links in the links. Some nice stuff there. Thats why i am here, to learn. In particular i learnt about Wheatstone's experiment on the velocity of electricity. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ ... .1834.0031 It is similar to Ivor Catt's stuff (& Forrest Bishop). Touching on IAAAD.Sci-Phy wrote:The main problem in relativity physics is that it is not real.
Take a look at any of the Einstein's thought experiment - everything started with emitting the light and received it back. All formulas about moving spaceship is the formulas how this moving ship looks from stationary one. It is not about time on real ship - it is how the time on moving ship is visible to us. How speed of light is connected to causality? Do I obey the principle of causality playing the tape backwards?
It is a lot of dark moments in relativity. In my opinion there is no "twin paradox" at all.
http://www.sci-phy.ca/papers/Relativity ... radox.html
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