Michael Mozina wrote:I think we all would agree that Birkeland currents form "circuits" that wire suns and various galaxies together. That's pretty much a given in all EU/PC cosmology models.
Michael Mozina wrote:By the way....
It's worth noting that a number of "mainstream" papers going back to the 1920's predict that he surface of the sun should have a net negative charge due to the fact that ions are much heavier than electrons, and predict that gravity should result in some amount of charge separation between the core and the surface. Such papers however tend to ignore the fact that cosmic rays which bombard the sun peak at approximately 1Gev when discussing the sun's surface voltage, and they therefore ultimately grossly underestimate it's surface charge with respect to space.
I can understand how gravity might help to generate some amount of charge separation in the sun, resulting in a net negative charge at the surface and a net positive charge in the core, but I'm unclear as to why the solar surface would have a net positive charge in Juergen's model. Could someone explain that to me?
Zyxzevn wrote:Mainstream myths are repeated over and over again until it seems reality.
So I do not think Parker will change anything with the mainstream.
The first thing that I saw from Parker was a statement about "magnetized plasma".
See:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... olar-probe
I started asking about it on reddit, but no-one could explain it properly.
"It is just a property of plasma", was the answer.
Which is like saying: "it is just magic".
See "magnetic reconnection" and such to see my full criticism on this huge error.
The newest article has more false statements:
"the corona is so much hotter than the surface"
See: https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-solar-sp ... e-the-sun/
Also proven wrong. Robitaille has shown that the one spectral line is related to another element
close to the temperature of the sun.
A spectral line that is common in a chemical reaction.
The chemical reactions that he found also show that two electrons are commonly exchanged.
This might be related to a electrochemical reaction, between different layers of the sun.
And we agree that currents cause magnetic fields, and that magnetic fields do not exist without
electric currents (in gas, liquid or plasma). (proven in laboratory)
All circuit solutions also need a driving mechanism.
A force that drives the current in the circuit.
This can either be a changing magnetic field, or a static electric field.
The changing magnetic field can be caused by a current, which can be caused by circuit.
The static electric field can be caused by charge separation.
Charge separation can be caused by high temperatures, temperature differences, radiation,
chemical reactions, vandegraaffgenerators, falling dielectric material,
and probably a lot more.
For me it is clear that charge separation drives the plasma ropes on the sun.
The physics is very clear on that.
The galactic currents could be caused by declining magnetic fields or rotating charged objects.
I think that spiral galaxies create charge separation in their centre, causing currents through the
whole galaxy.
This probably combines well with "dark matter" in galaxies.
The electrical circuit of the solar system is still not clear for me.
Is it part of the galactic electrical system, like a xmas light on a long wire?
Is the sun causing charge separation by expelling charged matter (solar wind) in different directions?
It could even be both, where the galactic system causes solar cycles.
I think we all would agree that Birkeland currents form "circuits" that wire suns and various galaxies together. That's pretty much a given in all EU/PC cosmology models.
One of lingering debates in EU/PC theory however is whether the sun's surface acts as an anode (Ralph Juergens) or a cathode (Kristian Birkeland) with respect to space, or whether it acts more like a homopolar generator (Hannes Alfven) with respect to other circuits in space.
The electrical circuit of the solar system is still not clear for me.
Is it part of the galactic electrical system, like a xmas light on a long wire?
Zyxzevn wrote:...
All circuit solutions also need a driving mechanism.
A force that drives the current in the circuit.
This can either be a changing magnetic field, or a static electric field.
The changing magnetic field can be caused by a current, which can be caused by circuit.
The static electric field can be caused by charge separation.
Charge separation can be caused by high temperatures, temperature differences, radiation,
chemical reactions, vandegraaffgenerators, falling dielectric material,
and probably a lot more.
For me it is clear that charge separation drives the plasma ropes on the sun.
The physics is very clear on that.
The galactic currents could be caused by declining magnetic fields or rotating charged objects.
I think that spiral galaxies create charge separation in their centre, causing currents through the
whole galaxy.
This probably combines well with "dark matter" in galaxies.
The electrical circuit of the solar system is still not clear for me.
Is it part of the galactic electrical system, like a xmas light on a long wire?
Is the sun causing charge separation by expelling charged matter (solar wind) in different directions?
It could even be both, where the galactic system causes solar cycles.
jacmac wrote:I hold an alternative view to the solar "circuit" and to the sun as anode or cathode.
I think designating the sun as an anode or cathode is misleading for the reason there does not seem to be a classic "CIRCUIT" per se. In a basic circuit there is a power source presenting a voltage at two distinct terminals and a load connected also to the same two terminals. The power source is separate from and outside the load. Current flows in a circular fashion from one terminal, through the load, through the second terminal back to the power source.
But, our solar system is enclosed by a single spherical terminal, the heliosphere. There is no second terminal.
Everything else about the sun is completely inside the heliosphere. The solar system is an organic electrical event.
Also, there is not a single "surface" of the sun; there are three distinct parts(that we can see): photosphere,
chromosphere, corona. If the sun is a "terminal", an anode or a cathode, which part is the NODE ?
Which part is the DISCHARGE ?
Technically the whole atmosphere is experiencing a "discharge" originating from the electrode/cathode surface toward the heliosphere IMO. The most obvious discharges occur in coronal loops where we see plasma that is heated to millions of degrees and sustained at those temperatures for hours and days on end. Only a powerful discharge process could result in those million degree loops being sustained for such long periods of time. Even some type of magnetic field induction process would only produce a very time limited amount of heating.I think suns are externally powered, but there is a lot more to find out than anode or cathode, and we might have to give up on both.
Jack
Michael Mozina wrote:I do think that the PSP is likely to revolutionize solar physics ...
Brigit Bara wrote:The charge is already separated in plasma, which forms double layers between regions of opposite charges. These double layers are able to accelerate charged particles. That is the way an ion thruster works.
MotionTheory wrote:EU/PC based on electricity/plasma, which depends Charge Separation. But Charge Separation occurred due to electrical powered physics (thermal, spin, gravity, etc). This violate Energy Conservation Law of Thermal Dynamic, wherein a system can't perform work on itself. To cheat this violation, one might need to invoke an external power source and sink circuit, either outside of observable universe or existence of extra dimension.
jacmac wrote:The galactic and solar electrical systems each have circuits, but they are not like our man made circuits.
they are self regulating, operating in free space. The circuit parts need new names.
Brigit Bara wrote:
The charge is already separated in plasma, which forms double layers between regions of opposite charges. These double layers are able to accelerate charged particles. That is the way an ion thruster works.
zyxzeven wrote:
Does that mean that you think that double layers cause charge-separation?
As I understand it, the double layers are caused by electrical fields and related electrical currents.
This means that the double layers are the result of charge-separation, not the cause.
Charged bodies embedded in plasma create about themselves a protective cocoon of plasma, rather like a living cell wall. This cell wall is known as a Langmuir plasma sheath, or ‘double layer,’ which contains most of the voltage difference between the charged body and the surrounding plasma.
Only an electric current sustains the charge separation across the double layer.
What kind of circuits would you propose?
Charged bodies embedded in plasma create about themselves a protective cocoon of plasma, rather like a living cell wall. This cell wall is known as a Langmuir plasma sheath, or ‘double layer,’ which contains most of the voltage difference between the charged body and the surrounding plasma.
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