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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Weber Electrodynamics

Weber Electrodynamics

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Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Researcher720 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:02 am

Hi,
I am new to the Forums, so if I'm not in the right place for this topic, please let me know.

I have done a lot of research on Weber electrodynamics. (Don't believe what you read on the Wikipedia page on this topic. It is very old and not correct....) I'd like to discuss what I've found. I think it could be very important to the Electric Universe models. I'd also like to hookup with anyone doing plasma research/simulations to see if Weber's electrodynamics could be used in the simulations instead of Maxwell's electrodynamics. What would plasma cosmology and models of the Sun and solar system look like using Weber electrodynamics?

In a few words, what I have found is that Maxwell's electrodynamics carries 2 implicit restrictions (so it is not mathematically consistent). When these restrictions are removed, and 2 terms added to the scalar potential function, you end up with Weber's electrodynamics. In this way, Weber's electrodynamics is a correction and extension of Maxwell's electrodynamics. So, I have written the 4 Maxwell differential equations for Weber's electrodynamics. Weber's electrodynamics is every bit a field theory as is Maxwell's electrodynamics.... It is simple to go from Maxwell to Weber. And Weber, now, looks a lot like Maxwell....

These are statements of mathematics. I have focused on the mathematics because math is provable.

Anyway, if you are interested, please let me know.

I love questions. Feel free to ask.

A summary of my work is available at http://www.weberelectrodynamics.com/
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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Higgsy » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:54 pm

"Every single ion is going to start cooling off instantly as far as I know…If you're mixing kinetic energy in there somehow, you'll need to explain exactly how you're defining 'temperature'" - Mozina
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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby D_Archer » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:34 am

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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Aardwolf » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:38 am

"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality." - Nikola Tesla
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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Higgsy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:10 am

Last edited by Higgsy on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Every single ion is going to start cooling off instantly as far as I know…If you're mixing kinetic energy in there somehow, you'll need to explain exactly how you're defining 'temperature'" - Mozina
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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Higgsy » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:19 am

"Every single ion is going to start cooling off instantly as far as I know…If you're mixing kinetic energy in there somehow, you'll need to explain exactly how you're defining 'temperature'" - Mozina
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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Researcher720 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:56 pm

Thanks, Higgsy, for your response.

Note that in Maxwell's electrodynamics, considered as a mathematical, logic, system,
not considering the physics, that it uses the symbol "E" for two different things. Yes,
I agree that the so called "static" case is a special case of the "dynamic" case, but
it is using the same symbol for both cases. That leads to a contridiction.

Set that argument aside.

When you see
div E = (1/e0) rho
how do you know that E = -grad phi - @A/@t ("@" here mean partial derivative)
or that E = -grad phi is being refered to? That's what I am pointing
out. By *doing* the math, I find E = -grad phi
is the correct choice, and that E = -grad phi -@A/@t is not the correct choice. So, there
needs to be some indication of this in/with the equation. As I point out on the web page,
there are a couple of different ways to do this. One is to explicitly state with the
equation that @A/@t = 0 is being applied. Nothing wrong with that.
But then this restriction must be applied to all other equations thereafter.
As a system of equation, taken as a whole, you can not impose a restriction just on one equation and not on all other equations.

The second problem with Maxwell's electrodynamics that I point out does not depend on
the first problem (the above problem). Again *doing the math* shows that for Ampere's
circital law with the displacement current term requires (for the least number of restrictions)
the use of E = -grad phi, and not E = -grad phi - @A/@t, together with 2 restrictions. That's math, not physics
(although Ampere's law can be applied to physics, of course). Since it is math, it is provable.

From an experimental point of view, Weber's electrodynamics, Weber's force law, explains
the so-called "exploding wire" experiments of Graneau (see his books), all the experiments
that Ampere performed regarding the development of Ampere's force equation (Ampere's
force equation is a special case of Weber's force equation). Since the Lorentz force
equation is not compatible with Maxwell's electrodynamics, but is compatible with
Weber's electrodynamics, experiments proving Lorentz force equation is supporting
Weber's electrodynamics, not Maxwell's electrodynamics.

As you might guess, I think it is critical to get electrodynamics "correct", in the non-special theory of
relativity regime, since some much depends on it. By "correct" I mean a consistent mathematical system
provable by math and logic.

Also, do you have a reference showing Maxwell's 4 equations for discrete sources? I think I read that there
isn't such a thing because Maxwell's 4 equations is only defined for the continuous source case. (I think
this had something to do with the definition of the magnetic induction field being defined only for
continuous current sources.) Is this true? Note that Weber's electrodynamics is defined first for discrete
sources, including 4 differential Maxwell-like equations. Discrete sources case is the more fundamental since
all charges are discrete. If it is true that Maxwell's electrodynamics (with the 4 differential equations) is not
defined for discrete sources, well, another plus for Weber and a minus for Maxwell.... Let me know if you
have a reference.

I would think people in plasma research would be very interested in this Weber topic....
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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby celeste » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:23 pm

Very interested, thank you.

The general argument of discrete vs continuous, matters a great deal in Birkeland currents. There is an idea out there, that if we could know the exact positions and momentums of small scale objects, ( ions and electrons in the solar system), we can explain the rotation, orbits, masses, spins, etc, of planets based on that. As it turns out, rules such as Titius-Bode, the Kozai relationship of orbital inclinations to eccentricities, come only from considering the continuous ( wavelike), structure of the interstellar medium. In other words, even if we agree that the sun and planets travel through a plasma composed of “ions” and “electrons” at the solar system scale, only the continuous wavelike structure of a Birkeland current ( built up from the flow of small scale charged particcles!), can explain orbital spacing, the eccentricity vs inclination relationship for orbits, etc.
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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby D_Archer » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:33 am

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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Researcher720 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:34 am

Hi D_Archer, Thanks for your comments.

I thought math is to be *the* language of science. (Is there any other option?)

And I thought the scientific process was something like 1) Predict the results
of a proposed experiment, 2) Perform the experiment, 3) Compare prediction to
experimental results. I would expect step (1) would be (not exclusively) math. According
to some theory, we predict, through the theory's math, that an experiment
would produce these results.... Do the experiment to show the math did predict
the experimental results, or not.

I also don't see how to analyze the collected experimental data without math.
The math being based on the theory chosen. Different theory, different math, different
analysis of the experimental data.

Experiment is king, but math is queen. And they go hand-in-hand.

And from what I've been able to calculate, so far, Weber's electrodynamics appears to
be more mathematically consistent than Maxwell's electrodynamics. So wouldn't
physicists prefer to use a consistent mathematical system than one that isn't?
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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Aardwolf » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:38 am

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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Aardwolf » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:07 am

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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:54 am

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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Researcher720 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:57 am

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Re: Weber Electrodynamics

Unread postby Higgsy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:20 pm

"Every single ion is going to start cooling off instantly as far as I know…If you're mixing kinetic energy in there somehow, you'll need to explain exactly how you're defining 'temperature'" - Mozina
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