What the wobble?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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What the wobble?

Unread postby Cargo » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:43 pm

I came upon this very nice picture of our 'motion' through Space, and while I was looking at it I started to realize that something was just really odd. Well, 'odd' in the sense that dogma states that SMBH and Interstellar Gravity holds the Cosmos together. Except when being blown apart, but I digress.

Take a look and see what you see.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outth ... ky_Way.jpg

What is up with the up/down path of the Sun? How is that even possible gravitationally? What's the period/rate of this wobble?

Another interesting picture is in the source article, of the time-space shifted 'heat' map of the CMB. Go figure.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outth ... -speaking/

Of the question of where are we going in the Universe, I'll save you a click and spoil the punch line.

the result of the gravitational pulls of a vast supercluster of galaxies (primarily the crowded downtown of our own supercluster, Laniakea), tugging on our Milky Way and the rest of our local cluster of galaxies .... the solar system {moves} 371 kilometers per second toward a point near the constellation Leo, falling toward thousands of distant galaxies.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby Aardwolf » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:47 am

Cargo wrote:What is up with the up/down path of the Sun? How is that even possible gravitationally? What's the period/rate of this wobble?
No, it's not possible gravitationally. It doesn't make any logical sense so they need arbitrary influence to make the theory work.

I suspect the motion was invented to try to explain why we're heading away from the galactic centre and out of the galactic plane, which would be a problem when we're supposed to be in orbit around it. The fact is we're not orbiting the galaxy, we're exiting, just like the rest of the stars.
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby allynh » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:39 am

Cargo,

If the jpg showing the Sun's motion disturbs you, look at the Earth on the same jpg and the way they show the Moon's orbit around the Earth. That is deeply wrong. The Moon does not orbit around the Earth like that.

- The Earth and Moon orbit around the Sun together.

I don't know if I've posted these two videos before, but they are close to what I mean.

Does The Moon Really Orbit The Earth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cJ3AemeUFM

The Moon Does Not Orbit the Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PRs8bvGrsA

This is the wiki entry.

Path of Earth and Moon around Sun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_ ... around_Sun

This is a page that discusses the Moon's orbit, with pictures.

The Orbit of the Moon around the Sun is Convex!
http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/tea ... onvex.html

I spotted these videos as well. Wow.

If the Moon were replaced with some of our planets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usYC_Z36rHw

If the Moon were at the same distance as the ISS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBDZtt0vWD8

If the Moon were replaced with some of our planets (at night) 4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB32ykkiJk8

This is a book from 1859 talking about the Moon's orbit.

An Elementary Treatise on the Lunar Theory: With a Brief Sketch of the History of the Problem Up to the Time of Newton
https://books.google.com/books?id=1D8JAAAAIAAJ

The book is also available from Amazon.

An elementary treatise on the lunar theory
http://www.amazon.com/elementary-treati ... 429740485/

I'm clearly having too much fun with this. HA!
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby Maol » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:43 pm

Cargo wrote:What is up with the up/down path of the Sun? How is that even possible gravitationally? What's the period/rate of this wobble?


The wobble is because of the inclination of the ecliptic plane relative to the solar system's orbit around the galactic center. The barycenter of the Solar System varies with the positions of the planets as they orbit. Visualize: an out of balance wheel causes the axle center to gyrate while the car continues its path forward on a level road. The barycenter of the solar system gyrates as it orbits around the galaxy, thus formed, the orbital path is an irregular spiral.

Image

https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/barycenter/en/

More about gravitationally aligned orbits here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitati ... ned_orbits
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby Cargo » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:39 pm

Okay, I can make sense of that geometrically speaking. Does that mean the rotational center of the solar system (as a whole) is not the Sun?
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby Aardwolf » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:21 pm

Maol wrote:
Cargo wrote:What is up with the up/down path of the Sun? How is that even possible gravitationally? What's the period/rate of this wobble?


The wobble is because of the inclination of the ecliptic plane relative to the solar system's orbit around the galactic center. The barycenter of the Solar System varies with the positions of the planets as they orbit. Visualize: an out of balance wheel causes the axle center to gyrate while the car continues its path forward on a level road. The barycenter of the solar system gyrates as it orbits around the galaxy, thus formed, the orbital path is an irregular spiral.

Image

https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/barycenter/en/

More about gravitationally aligned orbits here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitati ... ned_orbits
No, it has nothing to do with the local motion of the barycentre. The bogus motion in the diagram is the oscillation of the sun in the galactic plane;

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232787197_The_Sun%27s_motion_perpendicular_to_the_galactic_plane
Abstract

The period and amplitude of the Sun's motion perpendicular to the galactic plane are important parameters in some explanations of the terrestrial mass extinctions and cratering records1–5. Here we have calculated the range of periods and vertical excursions that are consistent with the distributions of tracer stars in the Galaxy and have also evaluated the probable phase jitter in the solar period. We find acceptable half-periods for the vertical oscillation that range from 26 to 37 Myr (including the range of periods that have been inferred from the terrestrial records on mass extinctions and on cratering), maximum heights above the plane from 49 to 93 pc, and an average phase jitter per half-period of the order of 6–9%. The largest uncertainty in all these calculations is caused by the unknown distribution of the unseen mass that must be postulated to explain the distribution of observed stars6–7. For all the models we consider, the most recent passage of the Sun through the galactic plane occurred in the past 3 Myr provided only that the present position of the Sun is between 0 and 20 pc above the plane. We extend the argument of Thaddeus and Chanan8 to show that the apparent periodicity in the mass extinction and cratering records cannot be caused by an population of objects (observed or unobserved) that contributes a major fraction of the total mass density at the solar vicinity.
And as per the last highlighted phrase they have no idea why it happens, only that it must happen because otherwise their entire paradigm falls over.

Once everyone realises that galaxies are not gravitationally bound and we can do away with all the dark magic nonsense, we get on with real science.
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby Cargo » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:41 pm

Quite interesting cross up to compare local geography and mass extinction when crossing the Milky plain.
And look at the those ranges. Millions of years and parsecs.
Yes, exactly. I don't think Gravity has anything to do with it. At all.

And 'unseen mass', oh boy.... here we go.. Soon we'll have micro-dark-black-holes laying throughout ever galaxy.
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby nick c » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:10 am

Soon we'll have micro-dark-black-holes laying throughout ever galaxy.
If that doesn't work we can put the necessary amount of dark matter wherever its needed.
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby Maol » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:45 pm

Cargo wrote:Okay, I can make sense of that geometrically speaking. Does that mean the rotational center of the solar system (as a whole) is not the Sun?

Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycenter
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby jtb » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:55 am

Maol, Keep in mind that modern astrophysics have proved Copernicus wrong. Earth is no longer orbiting a stationary sun. The sun is now orbiting the Milky Way, which is orbiting the Local Cluster of Galaxies, which is orbiting the Super Cluster of Galaxies, and who know what else. The sun is now wobbling while spiraling through space at ~2,000,000 mph, dragging Earth along with it.
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby jtb » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:56 am

Maol, Keep in mind that modern astrophysics have proved Copernicus wrong. Earth is no longer orbiting a stationary sun. The sun is now orbiting the Milky Way, which is orbiting the Local Cluster of Galaxies, which is orbiting the Super Cluster of Galaxies, and who know what else. The sun is now wobbling while spiraling through space at ~2,000,000 mph, dragging Earth along with it.
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby kevin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:40 am

Cargo
https://grahamgarnos.weebly.com/blog/th ... lar-system,
What I see in Your first link is assumption.
IMHO our sun is upon a spiral route about the galaxy, and all of the planets are also upon spiral routes about the suns spiral route.
There is no fictional force called gravity.
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby kevin » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:15 am

The moons wobbling close this month.....
http://earthsky.org/?p=270280



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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby johnm33 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:23 am

I suspect it's a spiral motion, or a complex of spiral motions. If you look at this from BRI http://binaryresearchinstitute.com/bri/ ... -momentum/ it makes sense to have a more equal distribution of angular momentum, which can be acheived without a binary companion if the sun follows a spiral path around one of an ideal twisted pair, birkland currents?, around the galactic center, possibly like the second of either type one or two as here http://piotr.pieranski.pracownik.put.po ... dPair.html
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Re: What the wobble?

Unread postby jacmac » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:44 pm

Cargo
What is up with the up/down path of the Sun? How is that even possible gravitationally? What's the period/rate of this wobble?

Actually, It makes sense in a gravity model.
In our solar system the average of the orbital planes of all the planets is called the invariable plane.
If the galactic plane is, in effect, a galactic invariable plane of the mass of all the stars and planets and stuff, etc, then our solar system could move up and down thru the galactic plane as it moves around the galactic center.

Somewhere, can't find it now, the rate of the wobble is around 25/40 million years.
That must be a guess based on the gravity assumption and mass estimates of the matter in the galactic plane.
The average mass of bodies in the G plane would pull the solar system back after it's momentum carried it past the center of the plane alternately up then down etc.
What might have started all this up and down...who knows ?

So, given a gravity only assumption, it does make some sense.
I, however, do not make that assumption.
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