Thank you, comingfrom. You’re forcing me to reorganize my thoughts and find new ones.
comingfrom wrote. E/M is photons. The photons are not diminished, on this we agree.
The spins are cancelled (for attraction) and stacked (for repulsion), and the cancelling or adding of the spin component, you are simply adding or subtracting to the linear component of field.
In my mind, removing the orthogonal vector (the spins) from the field still leaves the linear vector.
Airman. Agreed. All photons emitted by any matter are described by both linear (electric) and spin (magnetic) motions. Magnets have coherent spin emissions. I’m not real clear on what coherent means, but I don’t see any problems accepting various spin orientation and phase combinations in thinking about it. Miles gives an “oversimplified” example in the Magnetism paper; I interpret it (his use of the word “oversimplified”) to the fact we understand that one doesn’t just add orthogonal vectors directly. Nevertheless, addition or cancellation of the spin components causes a huge change in the repulsive strength of the charge field between the magnets. It seems true that the linear, electric components are unaffected.
comingfrom wrote. You are saying there is a total amount of magnetic charge held in store, in a magnet.Airman wrote. Gaining or losing magnetism (through heat or contact with a permanent magnet) doesn’t necessarily imply reorienting atoms. If magnetic solids such as iron were so malleable, I would think they would quickly disintegrate. Imo, stroking a nail with a magnet changes the aggregate photon charge channel flow paths through the nail, not the physical positions of the atoms.
Airman. I think I’m saying there’s a relative constant amount of nuclear charge recycling capacity. The presence of magnetism increases the net field strength and recycling rate over non-magnetic conditions, reflecting a higher energy state. We may be able to change, to some extent, the internal distribution of the nuclear charge flow. To make a silly analogy, your magnetism is improved by combing your hair. Rubbing a nail with a magnet causes a reordering, a redistribution of the photon charge flows within the nail, while under an increased energy field (contact with the magnet), changing a less ordered domain constrained pattern into a more coherent charge channel current flow distribution pattern. Whew.
comingfrom wrote. But it leads me to this question: Why don't electromagnets stay magnetic when the charge is switched off?
Airman. You only think they might, due to the residual magnetism of iron. Copper is simply non-magnetic in normal ambient conditions, meaning copper emissions are linear with less predictable spin directions or no discernable spin-coherency. Any driving voltage will increase E/M energy above the surrounding ambient levels at which time magnetism is detected. I may not have a proper answer, the question doesn’t seem as unanswerable as it was over a hundred years ago.
comingfrom wrote. And can you explain why iron is attracted to both poles of a magnet?
Airman. No, I suppose I can’t. I’ll start rationalizing. Iron is a perfect conduit of magnetism. That may be due to the fact that Iron is so perfectly balanced. No matter what azimuthal directions iron’s photons are emitted, they have traveled through the atom the same phase length.
comingfrom wrote. You are trying to make an argument for solo-gravity being the force of attraction between magnets, but you don't believe it?Airman wrote. I’m not sure if you are satisfied with argument for or against. Solo gravity just causes an acceleration. I don’t believe magnets are held together by solo gravity, instead, the charge channels of the two magnets are joined
You must mean, once the magnets are in contact, then the charge channeling takes over and gravity between the magnets disappears (because the magnets have become one body). Yes?
Airman. Correct. Solo gravity is the source of the apparent attraction. I believe the magnetic bond exceeds the acceleration of solo gravity alone. It takes additional force to separate the magnets.
http://milesmathis.com/per4.pdf.
comingfrom wrote. I have read it, and I have just gone and read it again.
I actually like the explanation there, it seems to be a good explanation of why the magnetic elements are magnetic, and of how the magnet field is produced.
It doesn't explain for me why these elements process a magnetic field differently to the ambient field.
It is the magnetic elements' response to magnetic fields that is left out of the explanation, imo.
Gravity is given for the explanation why magnets come together, but these elements will respond to magnetic fields when in a plasma too.
Airman. Miles doesn’t tell us everything. Too bad. Still, you must admit he left a pile of tools and clues to approach the problem. A charge field easter egg hunt, makes me feel like a kid again.
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Turbines
comingfrom wrote. The iron atom works somewhat like a turbine, that will propel itself in a spin cohered field.
Airman. Ok. Here’s an image of an iron atom (at the bottom of this post) as Mathis describes it and Nevyn simulates it at http://www.nevyns-lab.com/ . It’s clearer in motion. The green spheres are neutrons. The red spheres are protons. The blue and grey discs are proton equatorial emission planes; protons spin at c, most photons will be emitted along the proton equator, so maximum repulsion is felt in those emission planes. There are little electrons - yellow – too small to distinguish easily here, and photons are included as grey dots, a fuzzy appearance. The bright white lines are the main nuclear charge channels. Spacing is guesswork.
The atomic image of Iron appears at the bottom of this post. No joy bringing it here. Check the Atomic Viewer at Neveyns Lab for a much better view.
The atom is aligned to the charge field. The main vertical column is in line with the Earth’s upward emission field, thereby maximizing charge intake and throughput efficiency. The image may be a bit confusing or blurry, still one can see, Iron is finely balanced: the main column, 6 protons above, configured the same as the 6 protons below; four identical horizontal arms. I have no doubt the iron atom spins as it is propelled through space. How does that change in a spin-cohered field?
comingfrom wrote. Even a single proton acts as a turbine, cycling and recycling charge. I was looking at the animations of a photon spun up (at the forum you linked above), and could see the "turbine blades" (shape) formed by the photon path. If put on an outer axial spin, then those turbine blades are spinning around, enabling it to suck non spun up photons in through its poles.
Airman. I think you’re referring to a stacked spin, but I have no idea which. Instead, here’s another proton by Nevyn, also aligned with a vertical emission field, thus creating its horizontal emission plane. Like iron, hydrogen can receive photons from all directions, and redirects them into the proton’s own emission plane. Here we clearly see spin-coherent equatorial photon emissions. The proton itself is probably a perfect magnet. This image is shown in motion at Nevyns Lab.
comingfrom wrote. Turbo protons and electrons may also explain the way they move in electric fields, rather than the simple direct bombardment model, which would send both in same direction. But we know they go in opposite directions. The electron's spins causes it to processes charge photons oppositely to how protons do, whereby they propel themselves in opposite directions in the field.
Airman. Equal and opposite reactions between electrons and protons require closer study. Too many unknowns. From above we now know that a strong magnetic field yields two E/M results, 1) strictly linear, magnetic components cancelled; or 2) linear plus 2x magnetic component. Also I’m convinced there are always two-way, contra, charge and anti-charge flows. How do they contribute?
comingfrom wrote. The field lines are the direction of force in the field, and yes, they follow the direction of forces in the field.Airman wrote. Will they follow magnetic field lines?
comingfrom wrote. I'm talking about inside of electrons and protons, when the photons which are being cycled collide with the spun up photon that is the electron or proton. Or maybe they only collide with the photons which are being recycled.Airman wrote. Everything depends on collisions. It’s hard to distinguish exactly what kind of collisions/velocities you’re talking about.
Airman. Whoa comingfrom! Talking about the inside of a charged particle! That’s new territory. I’ll try to keep up.
comingfrom wrote. The exact details of how energy is transmitted from photon field to baryon, and vica versa, isn't yet clear in my mind.
Since the baryons are recycling photons, I don't see the acceleration of particles in a field as being caused by simple straight bombardment. Though I believe there is collision contact, for energy to be transferred.
Airman. I don’t believe the exact details are clear to anyone yet. Photons and anti-photons from all exposed directions can collide with the baryon, keeping its energy high. The baryon would react to that ambient photon intake with a resultant average velocity and spin speed. Coherent Spins present in a magnetic field result in coherent receipt of that energy, increasing the baryon’s own spin speed without necessarily affecting the baryon’s linear velocity. Two different result velocities and spin rates.
The baryon dumps energy by emitting photons. How is the energy balance maintained? Is there an E/M balance change between photons emitted in either magnetic or nonmagnetic fields? Protons receiving maximum spin boosts from the field must recycle photons at an increased rate.
comingfrom wrote. I believe the rotation of celestial bodies is maintained by the photon field, and that the energy transfer is happening inside the atoms of the suns and planets.
Airman. Welcome to the heavenly choir.
comingfrom wrote. Rather than make one, I'll find and "official" one that shows what I am speaking about.Airman wrote. Please make a simple diagram.
source: Particle Drifts in Space https://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wdrift.html
source: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... r/nmr.html
Airman. Wonderful sources. Perfect for improving our understanding; all kinds of information and experimental results the charge field must account for.
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