Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby MerLynn » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:58 pm

It could also be said that they are based upon water being a molecule and there's no way to "prove" such is the case either.
So its a theory based upon a theory. And you agree its nigh on impossible to verify so assumptions are made? What the hell has science come to?
I refer to newer experiments where "electrons" are injected into water not by an "electrolysis" device but by a magnetic field generation device.
Basically taking Tesla technology and applying it to water. A totally new concept of science that as far as I know only one Phd in the world is studying. Marcy Purnell of Memphis. (we havent got to her reports yet)
Even sticking a 'coil' in water with very low power and amperage so as to not 'heat' the water does very interesting things to the water. Academia failed to get past the boiling jug and electrolysis of caustic solutions.

This thread and all it's arguments are based upon the theory water is a molecule. What if it isnt?
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby MosaicDave » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:08 pm

jimmcginn wrote:Interesting. But would it eliminate any charge that is resident in the air?

The thing that would produce a vertical motive force on a charged particle - ion, dust particle, droplet, etc - would be a vertical electric field: A difference in potential between, say, the top and the bottom of some volume. That is specifically what a Faraday cage would eliminate. By the way, "Faraday cage" is common and specific term, I'm sure there would be a wikipedia page about it, for example.

It's actually very interesting, there's almost always a significant electric field as part of the normal environment, even at ground level, if you're standing outside. Sometimes, like in the presence of a thunderstorm, it can become very large - hundreds of volts per meter easily. Anybody can measure this; I've done it; you just have to set up the right kind of instrumentation in the right way.

Indoors, the ambient electric field is almost always highly attenuated. I've always speculated that people may be sensitive to and affected by this in ways that aren't currently much appreciated, but that becomes a whole other topic...
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:19 pm

JimMcGinn wrote:

Something is keeping indisputably heavier clouds from falling out of the sky.


Yes, the same thing that is driving those towering cumulus rain clouds high up into the sky.

I briefly described (in the other thread) the electrical process, (as generally also did Comingfrom), and provide links with exhaustive explanations of the electrical forces involved.

You may occasionally to miss things while in those ad hom hurling episodes,but
no worries ...
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby MosaicDave » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:27 pm

MerLynn wrote:This thread and all it's arguments are based upon the theory water is a molecule. What if it isnt?

Actually, no: Whether water is a molecule, or a microdroplet, or a plasma life form, or a quantum resonating electrodynamic field in the aether, I still would like to be sure that I'm drying my shoes in the most effective way.

P.S. - The "upright" method, which I have determined is the best, also works for bottles as well. I suspect, maybe you're like me, harboring deep suspicions of the chemical industry, not wanting to drink from plastic bottles, fearful of plasticisers and other nasty mysterious things leaching into your drinking water. Well, those green bottles I showed there, I carry them around to drink from, for this reason. Plus it saves money and the environment, to reuse bottles in this way. Anyway, bottles, as well as shoes, are best dried in the upright position! Ensuring, though, that you've first drained out as much water as possible, by keeping them upside down in the beginning.

As you can see even seemingly simple things like drying shoes and bottles can become very complicated; I am happy to help!
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby jimmcginn » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:05 pm

seasmith wrote:
JimMcGinn wrote:

Something is keeping indisputably heavier clouds from falling out of the sky.


Yes, the same thing that is driving those towering cumulus rain clouds high up into the sky.

I briefly described (in the other thread) the electrical process, (as generally also did Comingfrom), and provide links with exhaustive explanations of the electrical forces involved.

You may occasionally to miss things while in those ad hom hurling episodes,but
no worries ...


Okay, maybe I missed something or misjudged your intentions. Are you saying you concur that microdroplets can be suspended between air molecules by electric forces?
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:11 am

MosaicDave wrote:As you can see even seemingly simple things like drying shoes and bottles can become very complicated; I am happy to help!


I'm still amazed by the results of this experiment.

I wonder if the bottles were wrapped in aluminum foil if that would effect the rate of evaporation.

If the source of the forces that cause the suspension of the microdroplets is external to the bottle it would seem that the aluminum foil should eliminate them. If that is the case then wrapping the bottle in foil should slow the rate of evaporation. However, my suspicion is that the force that causes the suspension is associated with the air molecules in the local vicinity of the microdroplets in the bottle.

If it is true that the forces that suspend the purported microdroplets is external to the bottle (which I think unlikely) then it won't do any good to weigh the bottle to make this determination since the suspension is coming from outside the bottle.

The mystery deepens.
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby fosborn_ » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:59 pm

The mystery deepens.
jimmcginn

Not for William of Ockham.
Its lighter than air.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries,
is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
Isaac Asimov
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:00 pm

fosborn_ wrote:
The mystery deepens.
jimmcginn

Not for William of Ockham.
Its lighter than air.


I don't think you should be speaking on behalf of somebody whose name you can't even spell correctly.
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby fosborn_ » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:47 pm

fosborn_ wrote:
The mystery deepens.
jimmcginn

Not for William of Ockham.
Its lighter than air.

William of Ockham - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › William_of_Ockham
William of Ockham was an English Franciscan friar and scholastic philosopher and theologian, who is believed to have been born in ...
The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries,
is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
Isaac Asimov
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Location: Kansas

Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby jimmcginn » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:06 pm

fosborn_ wrote:
fosborn_ wrote:
The mystery deepens.
jimmcginn

Not for William of Ockham.
Its lighter than air.

William of Ockham - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › William_of_Ockham
William of Ockham was an English Franciscan friar and scholastic philosopher and theologian, who is believed to have been born in ...


Why not just tell us what you think?
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby jimmcginn » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:50 am

MosaicDave wrote:It's much easier to just assume that Avogadro's Law and the Ideal Gas Law apply with complete validity to air of various humidities, and furthermore to assume that evaporated water consists of a gas of individual H2O molecules.


And, of course, it also involves ignoring the boiling temperature of H2O.

Not only is it easier to pretend that H2O becomes a gas at temperatures far below its empirically determined boiling point but when you ignore this fact the results you get appear to confirm what we all assume, that clear moist air is gaseous.

MosaicDave wrote:I presume that the first thing he would say, is that all of these charts are invalid, because they are based upon the questionable "gaseous water" premise.


Of course I say that. I can't imagine any rational person saying otherwise.

The truth is that humans are rational only when it confirms what they already believe.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby jimmcginn » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:53 am

jimmcginn wrote:
fosborn_ wrote:
fosborn_ wrote:
The mystery deepens.
jimmcginn

Not for William of Ockham.
Its lighter than air.

William of Ockham - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › William_of_Ockham
William of Ockham was an English Franciscan friar and scholastic philosopher and theologian, who is believed to have been born in ...


Why not just tell us what you think?


Frank, Ockham's razor has to do with comparing two competing hypotheses that have matching predictions. That is not the case here.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby jimmcginn » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:43 pm

jimmcginn wrote:
seasmith wrote:
JimMcGinn wrote:

Something is keeping indisputably heavier clouds from falling out of the sky.


Yes, the same thing that is driving those towering cumulus rain clouds high up into the sky.

I briefly described (in the other thread) the electrical process, (as generally also did Comingfrom), and provide links with exhaustive explanations of the electrical forces involved.

You may occasionally to miss things while in those ad hom hurling episodes,but
no worries ...


Okay, maybe I missed something or misjudged your intentions. Are you saying you concur that microdroplets can be suspended between air molecules by electric forces?


Are you not going to answer my question?
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby fosborn_ » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:36 pm

based on MosaicDave 's simple observation, this explanation fits his model better than your notions.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... loat-when/

Scientific American.

Another way to illustrate the relative lightness of clouds is to compare the total mass of a cloud to the mass of the air in which it resides. Consider a hypothetical but typical small cloud at an altitude of 10,000 feet, comprising one cubic kilometer and having a liquid water content of 1.0 gram per cubic meter. The total mass of the cloud particles is about 1 million kilograms, which is roughly equivalent to the weight of 500 automobiles. But the total mass of the air in that same cubic kilometer is about 1 billion kilograms--1,000 times heavier than the liquid!
The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries,
is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
Isaac Asimov
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Re: Concerning the drying of wet shoes.

Unread postby jimmcginn » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:44 pm

fosborn_ wrote:based on MosaicDave 's simple observation, this explanation fits his model better than your notions.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... loat-when/

Scientific American.

Another way to illustrate the relative lightness of clouds is to compare the total mass of a cloud to the mass of the air in which it resides. Consider a hypothetical but typical small cloud at an altitude of 10,000 feet, comprising one cubic kilometer and having a liquid water content of 1.0 gram per cubic meter. The total mass of the cloud particles is about 1 million kilograms, which is roughly equivalent to the weight of 500 automobiles. But the total mass of the air in that same cubic kilometer is about 1 billion kilograms--1,000 times heavier than the liquid!


This is obviously wrong.
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