Grey Cloud wrote:Willendure,
It is politically motivated rather than factually evidenced but it is post-Stalin.
I think Lysenkoism continued well beyond Stalins time.
Grey Cloud wrote:Willendure,
It is politically motivated rather than factually evidenced but it is post-Stalin.
willendure wrote:Grey Cloud wrote:Willendure,
It is politically motivated rather than factually evidenced but it is post-Stalin.
I think Lysenkoism continued well beyond Stalins time.
allynh wrote:That's obvious. If Fomenko is correct then everyone else is wrong. Tough. Live with it.
By LESLEY HAZLETONMARCH 3, 2017
Not just for Christians. Snark/Art Resource, NY
THE ISLAMIC JESUS
How the King of the Jews Became a Prophet of the Muslims
By Mustafa Akyol
275 pp. St Martin’s Press. $26.99.
How did a Jewish preacher who became the Christian Messiah also become one of the most admired figures in the Quran? Mustafa Akyol, a Turkish journalist and contributing opinion writer for The International New York Times, sets out to explore this apparent conundrum.
The result will come as something of a revelation to many non-Muslim readers, since Jesus is revered in Islam’s sacred text as a great teacher and prophet, while his mother, Mary, gets more ink — and praise — than in all four New Testament Gospels put together.
If the Quran’s portrayal of Jesus is familiar in outline, however, its details are sometimes not, especially to Western Christians used to a single canonical version. The Quran is more ecumenical, dipping into the rich mélange of Middle Eastern traditions contained in the apocryphal and “gnostic” gospels and still very much alive in the popular lore of Eastern Christianity. It shows Jesus making clay birds and then breathing life into them, for instance, or Mary giving birth not in a Bethlehem stable with Joseph in attendance but alone under a palm tree, deep in the desert.
Akyol makes good use of both canonical and noncanonical sources, tracing where and why the Islamic approach agrees with Christian tradition (yes to Jesus as the messenger, prophet, word and spirit of God), and where it disagrees (no to the Resurrection, and no to divinity). Along the way, he ups the ante by finding what he calls “astonishing” parallels between the Quran and early Christian texts, though such astonishment seems unnecessary to this reader. Given the fertile interchange of ideas and lore in the multiethnic Byzantine Middle East, such parallels were not only likely, but even inevitable.
No new religion comes into being fully made, like Venus on her half-shell. And the Quran is quite open about this, as Akyol notes. It fulsomely acknowledges its debt by declaring that it comes to confirm both the Torah and the Gospels — to renew their ethical traditions. And since that was also part of the Jesus message — a renewal of Jewish tradition, not a break with it — Akyol presents the Islamic Jesus as more of a Jewish prophet than a Christian savior.
To bolster his argument, he delves into the split within the early Jesus movement: between the non-Jewish Hellenic church founded by Paul, which lasted and flourished, and the Jewish “Jerusalem Church” under James, which did neither. The idea is that remnants of these “Jewish Christians” might have survived into the seventh century to influence the Quranic concept of Jesus, though this seems something of a Dan Brownian stretch.
But Akyol excels in the last chapter, which will doubtless raise some eyebrows with its title alone: “What Jesus Can Teach Muslims Today.” In it, he makes a forceful argument for Jesus as the expression of the spirit instead of the letter of the law, and against the soulless legalism of both first-century Pharisees and 21st-century Islamic fundamentalists.
Is that too big a leap in both time and theology? Maybe not. Akyol frames it this way: “The three great Abrahamic religions of our battered world, despite all the past and present tensions between them, come together” in the story of Jesus. “Whether we are Jews, Christians or Muslims, we share either a faith followed by him, or a faith built on him, or a faith that venerates him.”
That’s about as interfaith as you can get. And whatever quibbles one might have with Akyol’s reasoning, it’s a welcome expansion of the fragile territory known as common ground.
Wrong. Christianity may be said to have diverged from Judaism but neither Judaism nor Islam 'split off' from Christianity.The Quran shows the mix of all three religions when they split off from Christianity.
Wrong. The similarities were never in the histories to be edited out. Have you any evidence that they were? They were never in the Torah and are still in the NT and the Quran.It was only over time that those similarities were edited out of the religions/histories of the other two
Wiki - New Chronology (Fomenko) wrote:
- The history of religions runs as follows: the pre-Christian period (before the 11th century and the birth of Jesus), Bacchic Christianity (11th and 12th centuries, before and after the life of Jesus), Christianity (12th to 16th centuries) and its subsequent mutations into Orthodox Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, and Islam.
allynh wrote: Wiki - New Chronology (Fomenko) wrote:
- The history of religions runs as follows: the pre-Christian period (before the 11th century and the birth of Jesus), Bacchic Christianity (11th and 12th centuries, before and after the life of Jesus), Christianity (12th to 16th centuries) and its subsequent mutations into Orthodox Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, and Islam.
A simple search on Book One found these comments, using the word "muslim".
Well spotted. Is it a simple error or have you encovered part of a conspiracy to subvert history?1563 First English fortifications off the coasts of New Guinea. (can't be New Guinea)
“I owe it to tell what is being told, but I by no means owe it to believe it”.
Herodotus, [Book 7.153-2]
Herodotus was an ancient Greek writer who lived during the 5th century BC. He was born in what is today Turkey. The only piece of work known to have been produced by Herodotus is The Histories. Nevertheless, this was a revolutionary text, and as a result, it earned Herodotus his place in history. For some, The Histories marks the beginning of historical writing, and hence the title ‘Father of History’ was conferred on Herodotus. Others, however, argue that Herodotus was the ‘Father of Lies’.
A Few Known Details on Herodotus’ Life
Herodotus was born around 484 BC to a privileged family in Halicarnassus, which is today a Turkish city called Bodrum. During Herodotus’ time, this city was part of the mighty Achaemenid Empire. As a former Greek colony and a major trading post with Egypt, it is likely that Halicarnassus was a city that allowed Herodotus to learn about people from other regions.
Statue of Herodotus in his hometown of Halicarnassus, modern Bodrum, Turkey.
Statue of Herodotus in his hometown of Halicarnassus, modern Bodrum, Turkey. (Public Domain)
It is known that he lived in exile at least once, possibly on the island of Samos, and some researchers like to think the writer later led an uprising against Lygdamis for his oppression. Apart from that, there are few other details about Herodotus’ life. We only have information contained within Herodotus’ own writings and some other details about him from later sources such as the Suda, a 10th century Byzantine encyclopedia of the ancient Mediterranean world. thus, there is not much known today about this ancient writer.
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Herodotus Writes about History
Herodotus is remembered by history because of The Histories. Prior to Herodotus, no writer is known to have written about the past through an investigative lens, or attempted to frame it as a series of cause and effect. Therefore, it may be said that Herodotus invented the genre of history writing. It may be because of this that Herodotus was referred to as the ‘Father of History’ by the Roman writer and orator, Cicero.
Fragment from Herodotus' Histories, Book VIII on Papyrus Oxyrhynchus 2099, dated to early 2nd century AD.
Fragment from Herodotus' Histories, Book VIII on Papyrus Oxyrhynchus 2099, dated to early 2nd century AD. (Public Domain)
In fact, his work was rather well-known, and seemingly accepted for the most part in his lifetime. The satirist and rhetorician Lucian suggests it was performed at the Olympic Games, the tragedian Sophocles provides a nod to The Histories in Antigone, and the comic playwright Aristophanes saw Herodotus sufficiently well-known to make fun of him in The Acharnians. Such famous names as Plutarch, Strabo, and Aristotle all seemed to recognize, though not always agree with, Herodotus’ work as well.
In The Histories, Herodotus gives an account of the Greco-Persian Wars, which lasted from 499 to 479 BC. In the preface of his work, Herodotus states that his work is meant to be an “inquiry”, especially into the causes of the war between the Greeks and the Persians. Herodotus then provides a narration about the rise of the Achaemenids until their conflict with the Greek city states. In between, he also provides ethnographic information about various cultures, including the Persians, the Egyptians, and the Scythians. Based on Herodotus’ eye-witness accounts of life in Egypt, Greece, Tyre, Babylon, and Italy, it has been assumed that the writer traveled to these distant lands in order to collect the material he wrote on.
Dedication page for a 1494 version of the ‘Historiae’ by the Greek historian Herodotus, translated into Latin by Lorenzo Valla and edited by Antonio Mancinelli.
Dedication page for a 1494 version of the ‘Historiae’ by the Greek historian Herodotus, translated into Latin by Lorenzo Valla and edited by Antonio Mancinelli. (Public Domain)
Accusations and Criticisms Launched Against Herodotus
Whilst Herodotus was held in high esteem by many, others (often modern analysts of his work) have been more dismissive of him. For some, Herodotus is regarded as the ‘Father of Lies’, as The Histories is said to contain a great amount of tales and fables. One of these, for example, is the story about ants the size of foxes in Persia that spread gold dust when digging their mounds. This, amongst other stories, has been dismissed as a tall tale by generations.
In 1984, however, Michel Peissel, a French author and explorer, reported that there is a type of fox-sized marmot in the Himalayas that spread gold dust when digging. The villagers in the area had a long history of collecting this dust, proving that this was already known in antiquity. Peissel further speculated that as the Persian word for ‘mountain ant’ was very close to their word for ‘marmot’, it is entirely plausible that Herodotus, who did not speak Persian himself and relied on translators, ended up with an error in translation.
A Himalayan marmot. (Christopher J. Fynn/CC BY SA 3.0) It is entirely plausible that Herodotus, who relied on translators, ended up with an error in translation and mistook ‘mountain ant’ for ‘marmot,’
A Himalayan marmot. (Christopher J. Fynn/CC BY SA 3.0) It is entirely plausible that Herodotus, who relied on translators, ended up with an error in translation and mistook ‘mountain ant’ for ‘marmot,’
Others have levelled criticisms on Herodotus for more personal reasons. Plutarch, for example, attacks Herodotus in a piece of work entitled Of the Malice of Herodotus. In it, Plutarch claims that “… he [Herodotus] principally exerts his malice against the Boeotians and Corinthians,…” Plutarch was a native of Chaeronea, in Boeotia, and hence felt that he was “… obliged to defend our ancestors and the truth against this part of his writings,…” Therefore, for Plutarch, Herodotus was not the ‘Father of History’, but a malicious writer who slandered many of the figures in his work.
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As Herodotus himself nowhere claims to have been an eyewitness to the events he describes, is it fair to call him a liar? On the other hand, is his content on how Greeks and non-Greeks came to strife enough to make him a historian? Perhaps it would be better to view Herodotus as a travel writer, a chronicler, or a journalist with a keen interest in other cultures and history.
So, Herodotus, ‘Father of History’ or ‘Father of Lies’?
A statue of Herodotus at the Austrian Parliament Building in Vienna, Austria.
A statue of Herodotus at the Austrian Parliament Building in Vienna, Austria. (Public Domain)
Top image: Detail of a relief of Herodotus by Jean-Guillaume Moitte, 1806. Cour Carrée in the Louvre Palace, Paris, France. Source: CC BY 3.0
By Wu Mingren
References
Herodotus, The Histories
[Waterfield, R. (trans.), 1998. Herodotus’ The Histories. Oxford: Oxford University Press.]
Lendering, J., 2016. Herodotus. [Online]
Available at: http://www.livius.org/articles/person/herodotus/?
Mark, J. J., 2009. Herodotus. [Online]
Available at: https://www.ancient.eu/herodotus/
Pipes, D., 1998. Herodotus: Father of History, Father of Lies. [Online]
Available at: http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1998-9/Pipes.htm
Plutarch, Of the Malice of Herodotus [Online]
[Thomson, J. (trans.), 1878. Plutarch’s Of the Malice of Herodotus.]
Available at: http://www.bostonleadershipbuilders.com ... odotus.htm
Potter, B., 2013. Herodotus: Father of History or Father of Lies?. [Online]
Available at: http://classicalwisdom.com/herodotus-father-of-history/
http://www.history.com, 2017. Hrodotus. [Online]
Available at: http://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/herodotus
jtb, Have you got a link for the video about Jesus? http://ifers.123.st/t213-jesus-christ-never-existedGrey Cloud wrote:Post by Grey Cloud » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:20 pm
Robert Russell Newton
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Robert Russell Newton
Born July 7, 1918
Died June 2, 1991 (aged 72)
Citizenship United States of America
Known for The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy
Scientific career
Fields Physics, astronomy, science historian
Institutions Applied Physics Laboratory at Johns Hopkins University
Robert Russell Newton, also R. R. Newton (July 7, 1918 – June 2, 1991)[1] was an American physicist, astronomer, and historian of science.
Newton was Supervisor of the Applied Physics Laboratory at Johns Hopkins University. He was known for his book The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy (1977). In Newton's view, Ptolemy was "the most successful fraud in the history of science". Newton showed that Ptolemy had predominantly obtained the astronomical results described in his work The Almagest by computation, and not by the direct observations that Ptolemy described.
Distrust of Ptolemy's observations goes back at least as far as doubts raised in the 16th century by Tycho Brahe and in the 18th Century by Delambre. Arthur Berry made similar remarks in about 1899. R. R. Newton also made a charge of conscious falsification.
Newton was also known for his work on change of the rotation rate of the earth, and historical observations of eclipses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Russell_Newton
Claudius Ptolemy, the Greek astronomer whose publication 1,800 years, ago on celestial motions brought him renown as the greatest astronomer of antiquity, has been described as a fraud.
Not just any kind of fraud either, according to a new book titled "The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy." The book's author is Robert R. Newton of the Applied Physics Laboratory at Johns Hopkins University, who says flatly: "Ptolemy is not the greatest astronomer of antiquity, but he is something still more unusual: He is the most sucessful fraud in the history of science."
If Newton is right, few of Ptolemy's observations were his own and few that were his own he either made up or made incorrectly. To hear Newton tell it, Ptolemy operated on a timeworn technique used by countless intellectual cheats. He worked backward to prove the results he wanted to get.
"I taught physics when I was younger and what poor students do to prove an experiment in physics is to make their date up," Newton said yesterday in explaining how he wrote a book suggesting Ptolemy's crime.
"It occurred to me that Ptolemy might have done the same thing my poor students used to do, so I checked into it . . . I now believe he plagiarized some ideas and made others up."
Ptolemy's astronomical work was summed up in a massive book he wrote called The Syntaxis, which, after his death in the second century A.D., became known as Almagest, which is Arabic for "The Greatest."
The Almagest was a synthesis of Greek astronomy, especially the work of Hipparchus who lived almost 200 years before Ptolemy.
The work broke down into 13 books, the first of which placed the Earth at the center of the solar system. The third book dealt with the motion of the sun and length of the year, the fourth with the moon's motion and length of the month. Later books were concerned with the motions of the planets and stars.
What Newton claims is that Ptolemy came up with his theories about the Earth, sun and moon based on measurements that Hipparchus had incorrectly made almost 200 years before. Newton says that Ptolemy claimed to have checked the measurements by Hipparchus and confirmed them when in fact he never checked them out.
"Ptolemy made no allowance for the inaccuracies in Hipparchus measurements, which he could easily have done," Newton said. "Ptolemy tells us he worked for eight years before publishing his work. The fact is he took Hipparchus' measurements on faith and never made any of his own."
Ptolemy said he observed the autumn equinox at Alexandria, Egypt, at 2 p.m. on Sept 25, 132 A.D. Backcalculations from modern tables show that an observer in Alexandria would have seen the equinox at a few minutes before 10 a.m. Sept 24, more than a day earlier.
The discrepancy is doubly strange, Newton says, because Ptolemy said he made this particular observation "with the greatest care."
Ptolemy goes on to say that he used his equinox observation to show how accurately Hipparchus had measured the length of the year. Newton says that all Ptolemy did was accept without checking the observations of Hipparchus, which were off by seven minutes.
"He wanted to be a great astronomer but he wasn't good enough to be one so he made up his data," Newton said of Ptolemy. "He's fooled people for almost 1,800 years."
Why did Ptolemy's fraud last for 1,800 years? Newton says it was because there were no competent astronomers around to point out the fraud in the 100 years after Ptolemy lived. Why not later, then?
"The next time there were competent astronomers were the Arabs of the 9th century," Newton says. "I think it didn't occur to them to check it."
Ptolemy has already found a defender in Owen Gingerich, an astonomer and historian at Harvard University. Gengerich admits that Ptolemy used "some remarkably fishy numbers," but suggests that Ptolemy used only the data that are best with his theory and did not make up data to conform with his theory.
"When Newton (Isaac, not Robert) and Einstein are considered frauds, I shall have to include Ptolemy." Gingerich says in a paper replying to a paper by Newton that preceded his book. "Meanwhile, I prefer to think of him as the greatest astronomer of antiquity."
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