Gravity Waves

[Xantos]

OK, so I found the information. Ligo and MM are basically the same thing, only that the former is much more advanced. Ergo, aether proved. They should immediately start revising the theory by including a medium.

[neilwilkes]

What really irks me is the way that the BBC have run with this, announcing it as the main news item at 6pm tonight with the statement "Einstein has been proved right after all" - again.
How many times do they keep this up please - all the time it is "einstein has finally been proved right" as if they ever had doubts or were looking at alternatives (they are not of course - it just gives the impression they are using the proper scientific method rather than science by proclamation)

It is absolutely all about funding.
Definite whiff of bovine excremental matter in the air.

[Zyxzevn]

[quote="Giffyguy"
Could an electromagnetic event cause so-called "gravitational lensing" and other black-hole-related phenomena, AND also create something they might perceive as gravitational waves?[/quote]

Yes. The "lensing" that they see in space is just Plasma in different modes.
The eye of good is a good example of plasma in circles.
Einstein's cross is not really a cross but a feature of the galaxy itself.

LIGO seems to detect changes in distance with lasers.
They assume that the change in the phase of lasers is caused by space/time ripples.
Simple heating of the surface can do the same, as can do seismic activity, as can do solar flares.
The latter is my guess, because mainstream science is very good in ignoring electromagnetism.
Even cosmic radiation can cause disturbances.
Alternatively there could be something that changes the frequency of the laser-light, like plasma redshift.

My prediction is that there will be many more "gravity waves". Too much to be colliding black holes.
They probably will invent dark matter black holes, or even colliding parallel universes.
Then they find its signal coincidences with the seasons. Which will cause them
to think that they are ripples of the big bang.
I see this branch of physics as lost.
It has no connection with the local observable reality anymore.

[Webbman]

the only thing that is proven is that they lie, alot.

[willendure]

What really irks me is the way that the BBC have run with this, announcing it as the main news item at 6pm tonight with the statement "Einstein has been proved right after all" - again.

The BBC report this stuff in the most annoying way, I agree. For example every single article on 67P/rosetta when mentioning the word comet, will invariably follow it up by saying that comets are made of ice.

[willendure]

LIGO seems to detect changes in distance with lasers.
They assume that the change in the phase of lasers is caused by space/time ripples.
Simple heating of the surface can do the same, as can do seismic activity, as can do solar flares.
The latter is my guess, because mainstream science is very good in ignoring electromagnetism.
Even cosmic radiation can cause disturbances.
Alternatively there could be something that changes the frequency of the laser-light, like plasma redshift.

Are the 'noise' signals not supposed to have been filtered out this time though? because results have been combined from several detectors, damping of seismic activity, and so on?

[Michael Mozina]

This could turn out to be rather interesting actually.

If you simply ignore the additional claim of "black holes" (aka zero radius/infinitely dense objects), and just look at the issue in terms of "heavy massive objects", it's possible that a couple of massive enough objects could produce gravity waves.

As I understand GR theory, gravity waves would necessarily propagate at C. On the other hand, light traveling from the event could ultimately interact with the plasma medium. This means that there could ultimately end up being a time delay between the arrival of gravity waves, and various photons that have to traverse the plasmas of spacetime.

Ultimately this "discovery" could end up being the hammer that puts the final nail in the Lambda-CDM coffin, particularly when they try to tie one of these merging events back to a visual signal of some kind. It could get rather interesting, particularly if they start seeing the gravity waves arriving sooner than the photons.

[Zyxzevn]

Are the 'noise' signals not supposed to have been filtered out this time though? because results have been combined from several detectors, damping of seismic activity, and so on?

This article on Ars Technica is actually useful.
It shows what they measured. Third picture.
A 0.12 second signal that is just 2x as large as the noise, and it has a certain shape.
The shifted version is from a different place.
Here is another picture.

They have been looking for a certain signal shape for all this time in the noise.
Something that goes up in frequency and amplitude at the same time, the "black holes" circling around.
See second picture (first of that list).

If I look at the signal, the frequency and amplitude does go up.
In that sense they found some kind of signal matching their model.

And as Michael states, it might be interesting indeed.
In an dynamic aether model, these kind of waves are possible too.
I still think it might be that their metal tubes were receiving the same
EM-signal from the sun from 50Hz to 120Hz.

[bonele]

In Caltechs Website they announced that the advanced Ligo would be able to detect gravity waves out to a distance of 70 Mpc or 225 light years.They claim however that the black hole merger occurred at 1.3 billion Ly's. Also the web site states that Ligo started officially operating on Sept 18,2015 but the signal was detected on Sept 14th.Something fishy is afoot.

[Zyxzevn]

A paper with all the things that they looked at:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0007050v2.pdf
They clearly missed the Electromagnetic interference.
A spark between 2 moving objects has exactly the same signal pattern.

Something that is around 50-120 Hertz is suspiciously close to the frequency of the electric grid.
And I am certain that they did not consider an electric sun.

[King David]

So a gravity wave travels at c, and is caused by the collision of two black holes? Anyone want to venture the odds of turning on your ligo just the right time of the universes 25 billion year (as lamda model so says) history and bingo there is a gravity wave. What so these collisions just happen all the time where space time is ripped apart and we see the effects any time we turn our detectors on. What the hell is this kind of story man? I don't know if this is supposed to be a joke that people believe this crap.

[willendure]

This article on Ars Technica is actually useful.
It shows what they measured.

The signal only lasts about 1/10th of a second. Did these 'black holes' only orbit each other closely for 1/10th of a second then? I guess the merging of two black holes is an extreme event, but this does seem a little on the short side, no?

[Roshi]

One question: Does NASA use the "speed of gravity" for calculating their trajectories? No, they don't. When it comes to practical stuff, relativity can wait:

Voyager mission, and the original paper that made it possible by solving "the three body problem", no mention of "speed of gravity":
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-20033940
http://www.gravityassist.com/IAF1/Ref.%201-69.pdf

"Three body problem", again gravity is instantaneous, not even the question exists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-body_problem

Also see:
http://www.ldolphin.org/vanFlandern/gravityspeed.html

The most amazing thing I was taught as a graduate student of celestial mechanics at Yale in the 1960s was that all gravitational interactions between bodies in all dynamical systems had to be taken as instantaneous.

Yet, anyone with a computer and orbit computation or numerical integration software can verify the consequences of introducing a delay into gravitational interactions. The effect on computed orbits is usually disastrous because conservation of angular momentum is destroyed.

[Solar]

Paper: "Observation of Gravitational Waves from a Binary Black Hole Merger" - B. P. Abbot et al

Ligo Open Source Data Sets

Sources:

Ligo Open Source Data Sets

Ligo News Relsease

Public Ligo

Ligo Scientific Collaboration

Ligo Collaboration #2

[GrahamC50]

This article on Ars Technica is actually useful.
It shows what they measured.

The signal only lasts about 1/10th of a second. Did these 'black holes' only orbit each other closely for 1/10th of a second then? I guess the merging of two black holes is an extreme event, but this does seem a little on the short side, no?

It's the one big thing that worries me about this 'discovery.' You would think they should be looking for a consistent wave signal that is continuous in the context of the magnitude of the distances and objects - not a one off blip !

The problem with science is that it looks for an answer to satisfy a hypothesis, and finding a fit, it looks no further.