Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby webolife » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:33 pm

Brigit,
I think we [or I] may have miscommunicated something about which strata we are discussing.
My concern is only for the Cambrian and "above", the fossiliferous strata. "Above" is in quotes due to Guy Berthault's stratigraphy which shows that multiple strata form at the same time, leading to the possibility of fossils in "higher" strata having been deposited before some below. There is much to be said for the "appearance of dry land" on creation Day 2, with regard to erosive and depositional events that would have necessarily accompanied that event.
Those strata do appear deeper [eg. in cores]. Another thing you have to keep in mind is that due to the "braking" of the continents in the latter stages of drift, not only were plateaus and mountains raised up, but due to isostasy the continental "roots" were also formed pushing downward into the mantle. These compressed and stressed lower strata are loci of numerous geologic processes, including seismic instability, magma formation, oil reservoir formation, as well as some of the "longer term" processes of metamorphism and pluton formation, etc. But these "PreCambrian" strata are not being considered in my model for the deluge event, only those found above this demarcation.
Is that making more sense to your view of earth history?

Oh, and my primary area of geologic field study for the last 4 decades has been Washington State, which has a little of everything geologically speaking. I have traveled thousands of miles in the western US, studied and incorporated into my model the Rockies, Yellowstone, the Utah canyon lands, the Grand Canyon, Yosemite valley, lavas, sands and caverns of New Mexico, Barringer Crater et.al. of Arizona. I keep an open eye to geologic and astronomic events via the internet, like all of us. That being said, I keep TB on tab daily, and relish hearing new perspectives and challenges to my way of thinking. When it comes down to it, I think I'm a fairly decent questioner, and this has been my primary focus in teaching Math and Science the past 38 years. I'm semi-retired now and still substitute teach, giving me the flexibility I need to spend more time with my studies and other interests. I have led geologic field trips, give "star talks", and love the biological sciences, notably genetics. I have presented to 4 different adult groups a 20-hour series via PowerPoint on science centered on the catastrophic biblical earth history, which has had to be [and will continually be] modified based on new stuff I keep learning!
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:22 am

Lichtenberg Figures?
The Lichtenberg erosional patterns on Earth seem to me to be formed by water erosion, not electric discharges. Lightning seems to have formed small trenches on Earth on occasion and larger rilles and trenches on the Moon and Mars, but over 95% of Earth erosion seems to be from water, i.e. rain and flood. I used to think Earth erosion may have been electrical until, as Thornhill's theory about the electrical formation of the Grand Canyon seemed plausible at first. But then I learned that there were two huge lakes in the past right at the head of the canyon system. When those lakes breached, the Grand Canyon obviously formed from the rapid escape of the huge volume of water. And the sedimentary rock in that area was probably still soft when the torrent of lake water flowed through, which made it easier to carve out such a large area of ground.

Depth of Strata
I don't believe many boreholes are more than 2 miles deep. The Kola borehole is 7 miles deep, but it's at the edge of the Asian continent, so the strata may have turned under there. Most continental sedimentary strata are no more than 2 miles deep. On the edges of continents they go maybe 3 miles deep where they spilled over the edge. But on the ocean floors they're shallow and thin out to nothing at ocean ridges.

Antoine Gigal
http://gigalresearch.com
I just found out about this unconventional woman Egyptologist. She seems to have a lot of knowledge about ancient myths and she has lived and studied in Egypt for over a decade. She's French, so her English is a little accented. In the first link below there's an interview with her, in which she says there was a female sphinx across the Nile from the male sphinx. She says the pyramids were built when Egypt was forested and had plenty of rain instead of desert and that the famous pyramids were built before a great flood, which was 23 meters deep on the great pyramid. She says a lot of objects and documents go missing after they're sent to labs for analysis, but that oral traditions are reliable. She says Atlantis was ancient Egypt, that "atl" meant "canals". And there were underground places of shelter for the ancient Egyptians. Maybe people survived underground during the Great Flood. What do you think about that?

NIBIRU is NEBHERU, the planet Venus
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?61878-Ancient-Egyptians-NIBIRU-is-NEBHERU-the-planet-Venus--
According to the ancient Egyptians: Venus i.e. Hathor or the “House of Hor, the House of Horus, the golden Horus” - In ancient Egyptian "Neb Heru" /NEBHERU/ House of Horus/Venus was known to have had different places in the solar system in the past before stabilizing.
- ... There are no Sumerian tablets that speak about Nibiru,they do not exist! Many people for years asked Sitchin to point out to them where in the Sumerian tablets the references to Nibiru are, but he never gave them this information.


HATHOR and NEBHERU
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/hathor-nebheru.php
[Image of] "Hieroglyph for Hathor: the house of Horus"
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/images/ ... hathor.jpg

The image shows the head of Horus (a hawk) as white and round, like the planet Venus, and the body light olive green. The body looks like a comet form. Don't you think?

[Image of] "Hathor Hair curls: the path of the planet inside the Solar system in the past;"
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/images/hathor/hathor-03.jpg
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/images/hathor/hathor-04.jpg
"... as well in the horns of the sacred cow another symbol for Hathor."
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/images/hathor/hathor-05.jpg
"As well in the Omega sign : Omega describing also the ancient "forced" path of Venus. For that reason Hathor is depicted as a celestial cow with the cosmos, stars and planets in her dress and with a globe inside her horns."
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/images/hathor/hathor-06.jpg
http://www.gigalresearch.com/uk/images/hathor/hathor-07.jpg

-The goddess with hair curls looks like the Venus comet.
-The globe in cow's horns also looks like the Venus comet.
-The globe here is reddish, so the comet probably appeared reddish at times, possibly due to dust in the inner solar system.
-The omega symbol looks less like a comet. Maybe comet Venus looked like Omega when facing upward at the horizon. Omega means the end: the end of what?

Ouroboros
The ouroboros was a circle-shaped serpent biting its own tail, or a circle-shaped dragon and serpent biting each other's tails. This circle was formed possibly by the Venus comet, before it appeared as a comet. The circle surrounded Venus and the conjunction of planets. The circle was called the circle of Ra or the house of Ra. Horus was Mars, I think, which was in the house or circle.

Does anyone doubt that Venus appeared as a comet in ancient times? Is there any reason Venus could not have been on an erratic orbit, as Gigal explains? Could Venus have gotten close enough to cause the Great Flood by tidal forces? Remember that Charles explains tidal forces as electrical.

VELIKOVSKY AND PLANETARY CATASTROPHE
http://saturniancosmology.org/files/thoth/thoth.1997.15.txt
... wherever astronomical traditions of Venus are preserved in any detail, Venus is the mythical Great Comet, appearing in the sky at a time of world-destroying catastrophe. You will find this identity confirmed from Mexico and Peru to ancient Greece and Rome, from ancient China to even more ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia. Long-haired star. Bearded Star. Smoking star. Torch star. Feathered star. Cosmic serpent or dragon. In fact, literally all of the astronomical hieroglyphs for "the comet" are "simultaneously" attached to Venus and to the revered great goddess, who "is" Venus in the first astronomies.

... the attachment of these distinct comet glyphs to Venus must be considered alongside the "convergence" of these glyphs on a biologically impossible monster -- the bearded serpent, long-haired serpent, flaming serpent, fire-breathing serpent, and feathered serpent. In none of these instances could phenomena observed today account for the incongruous motifs, which occur again and again throughout the ancient world. But let the comet glyphs mean what they meant in the ancient languages themselves, and the incongruity vanishes.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:58 pm

Lloyd says, "Depth of Strata
I don't believe many boreholes are more than 2 miles deep. The Kola borehole is 7 miles deep, but it's at the edge of the Asian continent, so the strata may have turned under there."


Hey. You just folded my data in half! (;
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:31 pm

Webolife says,
"Oh, and my primary area of geologic field study for the last 4 decades has been Washington State, which has a little of everything geologically speaking. I have traveled thousands of miles in the western US, studied and incorporated into my model the Rockies, Yellowstone, the Utah canyon lands, the Grand Canyon, Yosemite valley, lavas, sands and caverns of New Mexico, Barringer Crater et.al. of Arizona."

That is really exciting. I respect research and papers, but there is no substitute for field work and traveling to the place you are studying. Bravo web. I am a firm believer in the power of high level amateurs. Most advancements come from them.

I keep an open eye to geologic and astronomic events via the internet, like all of us.


You mean like this?


Image
image sharing sites



Aah.

I will have to have a look at Guy Berthault's stratigraphy. There is a need for a valid dating system. I don't think the Electric Universe is interested in solving that kind of problem. They each unilaterally use whatever date they like or remain silent. Lloyd may already know whether everyone here has reservations about carbon dating, etc..Rates of decay can change with exposure to electrical forces or even in varying solar activity according to the thunderbolts statements and I find this convincing.

PS learning how to link pictures here with several tries.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:03 pm

Brigit,
....reservations about carbon dating
That's probably the one area where we all agree. :P

I will have to have a look at Guy Berthault's stratigraphy.
:o :shock: :oops:
Do do. It's fascinating stuff.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:08 pm

That is nice to know that you all agree on at least one thing. (:

I think I have the general idea of Berthault's formation of sedimentary layers from a presentation by the man himself.

What about you GreyCloud? Plate techtonics? Planets out of their orbits? Electric cratering?
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby webolife » Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:13 pm

Hey Brigit what is that orbital image of? I don't think I've seen it before.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:35 am

Web those are NEOs from spaceweather. Their orbits are intersecting at earth.

The colors are for velocities, but I have found the fastest ones (red and orange) always work out to mean the closest ones, coming within 1 lunar distance of earth or so.

@all
I think I assumed that on a thunderbolts forum, everyone would be in agreement at least about the evidence for electrical cratering of the moons and planets.

And a discharge large enough to create the cratering we see would almost certainly have to be interplanetary. This seems like the most basic question to look at for Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm. The craters are not caused by asteroids striking the planets and moons.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:17 pm

Brigit,
What about you GreyCloud? Plate techtonics? Planets out of their orbits? Electric cratering?
No, just dodgy knees. :D
More seriously, no to pangea and plate techtonics; yes, almost certainly, to errant planets/orbits; yes to planetary cratering.
I'm more interested in the historical/people aspect than the science.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
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The great Way is simple
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby GaryN » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:04 pm

@BB
The craters are not caused by asteroids striking the planets and moons.

I agree, but NASA with it's budget boost this year seems to be keen to spend some on more jobs for the boys.

NASA Office to Coordinate Asteroid Detection, Hazard Mitigation
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2016-007

And a discharge large enough to create the cratering we see would almost certainly have to be interplanetary.


So here we differ greatly. I can not believe that any two planets approached close enough to do that even once, let alone numerous times, the volumes of space are so large and the planets so tiny, the odds against any close approach are huge.
The Sun on the other hand quite clearly has the potential to expel huge amounts of highly ionised matter that could envelope the Earth and lead to discharging, or a mega-flare could ionise the layers above us and also cause discharge, or, the Van Allen belt could become so energised at times of major solar storms that it too could lead to scarring. I'd put wayward planets at the bottom of a list of preferences.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:32 pm

GaryN,
I can not believe that any two planets approached close enough to do that even once, let alone numerous times, the volumes of space are so large and the planets so tiny, the odds against any close approach are huge.
Fair comment but: a) we are only talking about the inner solar system; b) it wouldn't be 1 approach = 1 lightning/plasma bolt; c) the 'numerous times' would be spread over a long period of time (and this has happened more than once).
According to Nonnus, Dionysiaca books 1 and 2, Typhon had 100 heads and 200 hands (and his lower half was like the tails of two serpents). Due to his assault on the heavens (from Earth) titaness Mene (as Nonnus callls the moon) got her scarred face as she was the first to engage him in combat.

Homer in the Iliad:
05.030 ...Athene (Athena) took Ares by the hand and addressed him as ‘man-slaughtering, blood stained Ares'
05.455 ...Apollon calls Ares ‘man-slaughtering and blood stained’
05.859 ...When Athene (Athena) wounded Ares, he bellowed like nine thousand men
05.864 ...The Trojans and Akhaians (Achaeans) shivered in fear when they heard Ares bellow in pain
05.866 ...The wounded Ares darkened the sky as he left the battlefield and rose into the heavens
13.521 ...Ares sat on Mount Olympos (Olympus) at the command of Zeus and did not know of the death of his son, Askalaphos (Ascalaphus)
15.119 ...Ares orders Deimos (Fear) and Phobos (Terror) to harness his horses as he prepares to leave Mount Olympos (Olympus)
21.391 ...Ares enters the battle against Athene (Athena)
21.394 ...Ares speaks to Athene (Athena) and calls her a ‘dog-fly’
21.402 ...Ares stabs at Athene (Athena)
21.405 ...Ares is hit on the neck by Athene (Athena) with a large stone
21.410 ...Athene (Athena) speaks to Ares after she has wounded him and says that the wound was his punishment for siding with the Trojans
21.416 ...Aphrodite led Ares from the battlefield after Athene (Athena) wounded him
21.421 ...Hera urges Athene (Athena) to go after Aphrodite for helping Ares
21.425 ...Athene (Athena) hits Aphrodite in the breast and knocks her and Ares to the ground and tells them that the same fate will befall any Immortal who sides with the Trojans
21.431 ...Athene (Athena) tells Ares and Aphrodite that they have faced her fury

http://messagenetcommresearch.com/myths ... html#iliad
There is lot more about the 'mad', the 'erratic', etc Ares and also about Aphrodite.
Deimos (Fear) and Phobos (Terror) are Ares' sons and his sister is Eris (strife/discord) who also accompanies him into battle.
Athene is the planet Jupiter in Homer. Apollon is something to do with the energy of the sun (similar to Indra in the Vedas).
Olympos here is something to do with the zenith in the heavens and nothing to do with the mountain. Ares' home was in (the celestial) Thrace, Aphrodite's home was (the celestial) Cyprus.*

Both Nonnus and Homer are about the late Bronze Age collapse circa 1200bce. There was a middle BA collapse approx 1000 years previous and a major event in the Younger Dryas circa 12000 years ago.

* - homes and the returning to home features in the story of the adultary of Aphrodite and Ares which I think may be concerned with the middle BA collapse though I haven't really looked into it properly. The story involves the pair being trapped in 'brazen bands' by the cuckolded Hephaistos.

The point of all that was to provide an example of one incident/event and to show that there was a lot going on in that incident.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:21 pm

GaryN says,
I can not believe that any two planets approached close enough to do that even once



True but whichever model you use, capture is considered a possibility in the solar system, with even smaller objects. It is used to explain retrograde moons and even the origin of our own moon. But gravitationally speaking, "there's no braking system" for a capture in the NASA model.

Remember that the magnetospheres and plasmaspheres of the planets are much larger than the points of light the planets add to the night sky. Jupiter's magnetosphere from earth:
Image

So that is the largest object in the solar system. The magnetospheres also provides for electrical interaction and braking for the moving planet in a capture.

The Sun on the other hand quite clearly has the potential to expel huge amounts of highly ionised matter that could envelope the Earth and lead to discharging, or a mega-flare could ionise the layers above us and also cause discharge, or, the Van Allen belt could become so energised at times of major solar storms that it too could lead to scarring.


Anthony Peratt estimates that the auroras seen and recorded as petroglyphs would be the result of solar wind:
Image

He uses the example of a thermonuclear detonation at high latitudes. So, perhaps bolides or solar wind would have been the cause of one of the major catastrophes at a global scale.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:12 pm

Gary
Charles found that the Titius-Bode Law seems to be due to electrical repulsion between planets, so it seems to make sense that orbits could adjust quickly if a planetoid entered the system on a highly elliptical orbit. He also found that the tides seem to be due to electrical repulsion as well. Furthermore, Charles found that bolides will produce thermonuclear explosions, either on impact on the ground or in an airburst, due to sudden high pressure and high temperature. So I'd say it was bolides much more likely than just solar wind. He thus can explain crater formation in much greater detail than conventional EU can. But he finds that the electrical effects of thermonuclear explosions are caused by ionization locally, rather than from anything like lightning or ED between planets.

Grey Cloud
Athena was Venus, wasn't it?

Gordon & Brigit
The following seems to show that the 12 km deep Kola borehole project found mostly igneous rock nearly all the way down. There are some thin layers of sedimentary rock down to 6 km and a very thin layer at 7 km. There may be some melted metamorphic rock that was formerly sedimentary down to 7 km. Then it's just metamorphic rock that was formerly igneous, i.e. granite below 7 km (or below 4.4 miles). Gordon, do you have comments on this?
Data on the Kola Superdeep Borehole
http://www.zmescience.com/other/great-pics/geographical-facts-youre-not-going-to-believe-22022010/
Graph: http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/geolsection.gif
Proterozoic
0-1k) Augite Diabases with Pyroxene & Porphyrites
----- ([Igneous] Diabase = subvolcanic rock equivalent to volcanic basalt or plutonic gabbro)
0>1k, 2>4k) Basic Tuffs & Tuffites
----- ([Igneous] predominantly pyroclasts = volcanic ash)
0>2k) Phyllites, Silkstones with Tuff layers
----- ([Metamorphic/Sedimentary] from shale, silt etc)
0>3k) Gabbro-Diabases
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above)
0>3k) Laminated Sandstones
----- ([Sedimentary] from sand)
0>3-5k) Achnolitic Diabases
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above)
0>5+6k) Dolomites, polynistic Sandstones
----- ([Sedimentary] from lime & sand)
4>5k) Sericitic Schists
----- ([Metamorphic] possibly from melted/hardened sand or shale)
3>5-6k) Metadiabases
----- ([Metamorphic] diabase from [Igneous]: see Diabase above)
5>6-7k) Diabase Porphyrites & Schists
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above; & [Metamorphic] see Schists above)
6>7k) Conglomerates
----- ([Sedimentary] from cemented rounded rocks, larger than sand grains)
6>7-12k) Muscovite-biotite-plagioclase gniesses with high alumina content minerals
-AND Epidote-biotite-plagioclase gniesses with amphibolites, amphibolite schists & ultramafites
----- ([Metamorphic] from Igneous granite or Sedimentary rock)
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby webolife » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:51 am

The bore hole sampling confirms my assertion that the strata below Cambrian are primordial, ie. original crust modified when the first continent raised up above the global sea in Day 2, an event which would have been accompanied by erosion and initial depositional sequences, along with igneous upheaval and intrusive/granitic formation, and "country" rock metamorphism due to pressure and heat. Since life first appeared on the surface of this continent, it is expected that there would be limited fossils found in the "surface" layers of the "Pre-Cambrian".

As for electrical repulsion being the cause of the planetary order, I'm ok with that, but find the repeating geometry to be a natural consequence also of the original field arrangement due to centropic pressure and primordial momentum in place at formation. Those balancing factors/vectors give rise [in my view] to not only the electric/magnetic fields, but also gravitational and subatomic/nuclear fields. Since they are members/manifestations of a unified field, I have no problem thinking of it as electric or gravitational, or nuclear.
And light manifests the centropic field as well. All one.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:29 am

Lloyd,
Athena was Venus, wasn't it?
No, never, not in Homer or anywhere else. Her being born from the head of Zeus has nothing to do with planets etc it is purely metaphysical and concerns Mind and the Logos. This why she is the goddess of wisdom, warfare and weaving. The Logos cannot be subvert, ignored, bypassed etc - Athene makes sure of that. In this aspect she is more powerful than Zeus. She is potrayed as a maid because she remains in her original state - Wisdom is, it is never added to or subtracted from.

After the Sun, Jupiter is the largest thing in the solar system; after Zeus, Athene is the toughest thing in the universe. What scientists say about Jupiter being positioned to stop things entering the solar system, so is Athene always front and centre in the various wars (vs Titans, Giants etc). In the Iliad she twice takes out Ares the god of war, each time with one hit.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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