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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:45 pm

I was moving yesterday, so I haven't been able to get back to this discussion till now. I have a lot of material to review here and on the Etherpad where I posted a lot of things about the Great Flood and about the Ice Age.

Gordon, are you open to the possibility, as Mike Fischer concludes, that mountain uplift and the Ice Age did not occur till a few hundred years after the Great Flood? The deaths of Arctic animals by sudden freezing, due to continental drift moving two continents near to the north pole, and causing mountain uplift at the same time, seems to require that the Flood, which deposited nearly all of the fossil-bearing strata, occurred enough time earlier for the animals to have repopulated the Arctic region while it was still warm. I know you say Noah was said to have witnessed mountain uplift, but could that have been minor hills, or conflation of stories?

Grey Cloud, I think you say cataclysms involved Venus, Mars, Jupiter and the Sun. How do you see them involved in the cataclysms? What are the main statements of myths that support your view?

Mo, what sources do you follow? Do you follow Cook's SaturnianCosmology.org material?
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby LunarSabbathTruth » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:28 pm

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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby webolife » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:22 am

LST
It's been a while since I read Velikovsky, so you may be right -- I may be remembering someone else's take on V's comet hypothesis.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:15 pm

Velikovsky theorized that the near collision with Venus caused impacts and major volcanic activity on Earth, which heated the oceans, causing extreme evaporation, which produced extreme snowfall, which became the Ice Age. He figured the axis shifted too.

Saturn Theory
Do you all disagree with any of the following from ?

Actually, even in Greek literature it is virtually impossible to separate the epic heroes from the domain of the gods. In the Iliad, the gods Zeus, Apollo, Ares, Athena, Hera, Aphrodite, and Poseidon are very much a part of the key episodes, conversing with heroes, standing beside them, falling in love with them, consorting with them. More than once, the gods themselves take part in the fighting, as when Apollo delivers the first blow to Patroclus, before the hero is struck by Euphorbus and then Hector. It was Apollo who guided the arrow that struck the "heel" of Achilles.

Agamemnon is likened to Zeus in his upper part and Ares in his lower limbs. (Those familiar with the Saturn model will have no difficulty discerning the concrete origins of the idea.) Numerous ancestors or relatives -Tantalus, Niobe, Pelops, Atreus and Thyestes, among others - were closer in character to gods than to men. Helen was the daughter of Zeus. Her mother Leda was also the mother of the "heavenly twins", Castor and Pollux. (Indeed, more than one scholar has recognized Helen as a local transcript of Aphrodite, astronomically identified with Venus). It was said that the walls of Troy were built by Apollo and Poseidon. Cassandra, foretelling the destruction of Troy, is strangely reminiscent of the ancient lamenting goddess, roaming about with wildly disheveled hair and disturbing the land. In truth, there is not a shred of historical evidence that such personalities originated as flesh and blood figures.

It is not my purpose here to merely suggest that there are archetypal themes and connections yet to be discerned by historians. Our claim must be much more explicit. There is an archetypal Universal Monarch or king of the world, an archetypal mother goddess, and an archetypal warrior hero. ALL OF THE RECURRING THEMES AROUND THESE ARCHETYPES AROSE IN RESPONSE TO SPECTACULAR FORMS IN THE SKY. THESE FORMS ARE NO LONGER PRESENT.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby webolife » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:04 pm

Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby moses » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:13 pm

Lloyd, regarding the Saturn Theory quote:
As I wrote before, there would have been numerous planetary encounters which would have given rise to stories about Gods interacting and then having constellations named after these interactions. I find that this has nothing to do with any Saturn System of planets, and one has to go way back to the Venus figurines to bet a hint of a previous planetary configuration.

And so the archetypal mother goddess, the warrior hero and such arose out of Velikovsky-type planetary interactions. Saturn could well have been involved but this has nothing to do with a previous configuration of planets.

And I follow nobody, especially not Jno Cook, although it has been years since I read anything by him.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:33 am

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:07 am

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:12 am

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:20 am

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:26 am

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Location: NW UK

Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:45 am

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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:57 pm

"The simplistic god = planet equation will not cut it."
Simplistic?
I guess I'm unqualified to discuss then.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:52 pm

Lloyd,
If it is god = planet full stop/period, then how come there are 12 Olympians but only 7 planets? This numerical discrepancy applies to other pantheons too.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:30 pm

Hi Seasmith,
Interesting little story, though I'm not buying the Enki = Saturn equation. The Tablets I would equate with the Logos; the Anzu bird with Tiamat of the Babylonians (Heb. Tehom); Ninurta would appear to be something to do with Man and his being in the material universe. I'll go with the Turtle and mound and perhaps with the ankle part though I see the ankle as being something to do with Earth or earthly part of man, it being next to the part which touches the ground. As you probably know the turtle features in Indian mythology also, not to mention Terry Pratchett's Discworld (where the gods live in a place called Dunmanifestin).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld_gods Very clever guy Pratchett ;)

BTW thanks for the two links. Most useful as I've lost a lot of mine through various digital disasters and computer catastrophes.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

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