'Welease Wosetta!'

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby GaryN » Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:06 pm

Also, if the material is a gas with no other force acting on it, why form coliminated jet?
A gas would immediately disperse as a circular plume when vented in a vacuum.


I was thinking something similar. The image shows what looks to be more like a pulling than pushing force, like electrons being sucked out perhaps. Also I wonder why they switched to the OSIRIS camera when nearly all other images are from the NavCam? Knowing the filter they used on OSIRIS might give us a little more of a clue too. And why the NAC when the WAC was intended more for studying gas emissions?
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby GaryN » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:41 pm

Today's CometWatch entry, featuring a dramatic outburst from Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, was taken by Rosetta’s NAVCAM on 22 August 2015, about 336 km from the nucleus.
http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/files/2015 ... 150822.jpg
Gas?
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Rosphere » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:24 pm

How, I wonder, will the dirty snowball advocates explain such radiant brightness, large area of coverage, and wide angular span of such a, "sublimation jet?"

GaryN wrote:Today's CometWatch entry, featuring a dramatic outburst from Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, was taken by Rosetta’s NAVCAM on 22 August 2015, about 336 km from the nucleus.
http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/files/2015 ... 150822.jpg
Gas?


Maybe the [electric] space weather had something to do with it instead? http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=22&month=08&year=2015
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:05 am

Maybe the [electric] space weather had something to do with it instead? http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php ... &year=2015


Yes, it should be possible for them to correlate solar flare or CME events with increased activity at the comet, but I doubt they will look into that. It seems that the Rosetta team is bound and determined to explain everything by heating and exploding gas pockets.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby dodeca » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:31 pm

A return to a very bight "jet", needing no enhancement, 6 days after a barely visible jet. And hysteresis is no explanation. The radiation from the Sun is more or less steady, so the heat absorbed from six days ago is the same as the heat absorbed today. No pulses of heat to be delayed by hysteresis.

Interestingly today's jet is more a fan. A fan with a very bright base (reaction zone) and a more diffuse uniform progression. Very much like a flame in appearance. In fact rather than brightening the image to see the comet nucleus better it would have been far more informative to reduce the brightness to see if any detail could be resolved in the heavily overexposed bright base zone of the fan.

The favoured hypothesis has all the light of the jet (fan) as reflected sunlight, from dust particles. So the dust particles remain in a clump at the base, reflecting a lot of light, then, with an abrupt demarcation, spread out into a diffuse uniform sheet, reflecting a lot less light. All done by gas pressure from within the nucleus.

Much more likely that the light emitted is intrinsic, intense at the reaction zone at the nucleus surface and diffuse in the discharged plasma beyond the reaction zone demarcation.

We can speculate on all this from the appearance of the image but we are very fortunate to have the Rosetta craft right there and to have the assurance that the science teams are " busy analysing the data to understand the nature of these events". So we can safely assume that they will be measuring, indeed mapping, the temperature of the jets/fans, particularly any intense bright zones. And also analysing the ion content of the jets and the ions to neutrals ratio.
Hopefully they will also find it worthwhile to measure the proton current density close to the reaction zone.

Whereas for a hydrocarbon combustion reaction at the nucleus surface a temperature of 800-1000 deg Celsius would be
reasonable, these bright outbursts are likely to be plasma discharges in arc mode in which the temperature expectation would be several thousand deg Celsius.
Sublimed ice as gas would on the other hand be expected to exhibit a temperature of say -70 to -150 deg Celsius.
Not much chance of confusion there then. We await the results with interest.

http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2015/08/28 ... -august-2/
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Rossim » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:39 pm

Dodeca, are you implying that the most recent outburst is attributed to an arc discharge while all previous episodes were not? I'm curious because you stated a predicted temperature of 800-1000 deg C if it's an arc discharge. However, this temperature has not been recorded thus far (in released data) so if this event was a discharge then no other event since Rosetta's arrival has been a discharge, per your statements. In that sense, you'd be agreeing that the jet behavior up to perihelion has been caused by sublimation, or at least not due to electromagnetic phenomena.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby dodeca » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:13 am

No I am not.Rossim.We will wait for the data.I dont believe anything of the sublimation story.There is no ice!

Anyhow the NASA has a new idea on exploring the surface of a comet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDmoqjNQAu8
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Rossim » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:45 am

You don't think that ESA would have released any statement since August of 2014 if they've measured temperature spikes of 800-1000 degrees C? Remember, there is no conspiracy, only the mainstream's misinterpretation of indirectly observed processes.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:25 am

I'm still waiting for the big analyses of the composition of the comet body. Unless I've missed that I don't see the big subsurface ice glacier causing all the jetting.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Zyxzevn » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:25 pm

Rossim wrote: only the mainstream's misinterpretation ....

I would replace "misinterpretation" with "ignorance, stubbornness and stupidity"

The "conspiracy" part is more related to the "confirmation bias" of science that gets bigger when
money or reputation are involved.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:07 pm

Zyxzevn wrote:
Rossim wrote: only the mainstream's misinterpretation ....

I would replace "misinterpretation" with "ignorance, stubbornness and stupidity"

The "conspiracy" part is more related to the "confirmation bias" of science that gets bigger when
money or reputation are involved.


I think beyond money and reputation, perpetuation of mainstream theory is a function of the status quo's refusal to examine seriously the gaping flaws in the habitual or expected conclusions. Electro-chemical processes to create the cometary water in situ and above the dry surface cannot be seriously considered because they are on a one-track minded hunt for "subsurface everything." They're doing it for Enceladus so they're doing it for comets (although Enceledus' surface is clearly composed of ices and comets are asteroid-like--a contradiction).
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby scowie » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:43 pm

Video created from 7 photos spaced 10 sec apart as Philae Lander descended from 67m to 9m:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34259139

It's a shame it stops at 9m and we don't see the "bounce". Maybe this was just before an electrical discharge ;)

The seven near-surface images taken by ROLIS during its descent
to Comet 67P/C-G were time-interpolated to create an impression of
how the descent would have looked if viewed from Philae in real time.
Some small patches were edited due to drop-outs in the original data.
The original seven images can be viewed at:
http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images ... to_a_comet
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Steve Smith » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:39 am

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Zyxzevn » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:56 pm



Comet 67P is shown to be everywhere rich in organic materials with little to
no water ice visible on the surface [5]. In the range of heliocentric distances
from 3.59 to 2.74 AU, daytime surface temperatures are overall comprised
in the range between 180 and 220 K, which is incompatible with large exposures
of water ice and is consistent with a low albedo, organics-rich surface.


Almost no water. Dry as coal.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:18 pm

Zyxzevn wrote:


Comet 67P is shown to be everywhere rich in organic materials with little to
no water ice visible on the surface [5]. In the range of heliocentric distances
from 3.59 to 2.74 AU, daytime surface temperatures are overall comprised
in the range between 180 and 220 K, which is incompatible with large exposures
of water ice and is consistent with a low albedo
, organics-rich surface.


Almost no water. Dry as coal.


Yes so why the ongoing and perpetual references to comets as primordial ice bodies "seeding Earth's oceans"?
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