'Welease Wosetta!'

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:47 pm

I see someone on the Rosetta blog asked if there were any recent temperature figures for the surface, but no response from the team. Surely by now the surface must have warmed some if the 'jets' are getting bigger and stronger?
From Aug 2014:

Although –70ºC (average calculated surface temp.) is very cold, it is 20–30ºC warmer than scientists predicted for the comet. This means that the comet is not covered in ice and instead must have a dark, dusty crust.

“This doesn’t exclude the presence of patches of relatively clean ice, however, and very soon, VIRTIS will be able to start generating maps showing the temperature of individual features,” added Dr Capaccioni.

As Rosetta inches closer, its sensors will study variations in the daily surface temperature of specific areas in order to understand how quickly the comet’s surface reacts to solar illumination.


So where are the numbers?
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
User avatar
GaryN
 
Posts: 2645
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

Re: No Thinking! Same ol' Stinking Sink'oles...

Unread postby FS3 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:26 pm

I forgot another logical argument at...

FS3 wrote:Lots of circular holes on 67P! But much more "holes" in their reasoning...

Image
A non-exhaustive catalogue of depressions
sharing similar morphologies to those
unambiguously linked to jets in the
Seth and Ma'at regions.


Ask someone who is experienced in electric arc welding how those dammn 'oles occur! And then try to convince him that the 'oles in the material exist only because there were little waterpits below the surface - so the metal "collapsed".

And - they have even a name for it: "heterogeneities" - No, that's nothing you can cure with penecillin, but it sure hurts like a chronical illness:

Large heterogeneities in comet 67P as revealed by active pits from sinkhole collapse

"Bump" - The typical sound of a collapsing stinkhole over a collapsing theory.

Anyhow, all this looks "scientific" for sure - with lots of diagrams, statistics, nice pictures and even more booga-booga: "There must be ice somewhere"! (In icy-blue as it should look like water)

No thinking, but that same ol' stinking over sink'oles...

FS3



..."Collapsing" sink'oles would require a certain amount of GRAVITY.

From the ESA Q/A-site:
...Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko is so small that its gravitational pull is several hundred thousand times weaker than on Earth...


Nothing more to add.
FS3
User avatar
FS3
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:44 pm
Location: Europe

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby flyingcloud » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:39 pm

seasmith wrote:
they are inside these pits," said Dr Vincent.
Ashpits ?


or ash holes
flyingcloud
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:07 am
Location: Honey Brook

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Steve Smith » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:23 am

The first color image composite of the comet looks gray:

http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/imag ... _comet.jpg
Steve Smith
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:23 pm

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Steve Smith » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:28 am

Omni, that's right. Philae's hold-down thruster didn't fire -- probably for the best, since the harpoons also failed to fire and no ice-screw anchoring was possible. If the thruster had fired without the harpoon anchors, then once the engine stopped burning Philae would have leaped off the comet and into space.
Steve Smith
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:23 pm

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby granite_crusher » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:08 am

..oh and I forgot to involve very important detail in my sublimation reasoning - density. If the comet density is less than ice, and if for minute we will agree with that snowball... then it means the comet have many caverns and pores. That means that surface for sublimation would be much much larger, and with prolonged sublimation the comet should just melt away. So now I am happy, I can use full set of the sublimation reasoning only in discussion with people who would be hard to convince with EU theory in first place. However, after converting them to mainstream theory skeptics they could be introduced to EU. :)
granite_crusher
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby dodeca » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:56 pm

yeah it was quite a dust party!”....

but no "water ballet" :

Image


http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2015/08/11 ... erihelion/
dodeca
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:32 pm


Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby S Freeman » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:19 pm



Great pics, thanks Oliver.

If nothing else, I think this pretty much destroys the mainstream comet 'gaseous subsurface discharge' theory.
It is possible that the overlap is pixel saturation, but I don't think so. Either way, they still stick to the same old paradigm.

"A sequence of images taken by Rosetta’s scientific camera OSIRIS show the sudden onset of a well-defined jet-like feature emerging from the side of the comet’s neck"..
How can that be? How can ice on a 'dirty snowball' 'suddenly' sublimate?

(Gif created by me from image, feel free to use.)
Attachments
SurfaceDischargeMd.gif
SurfaceDischargeMd.gif (44.65 KiB) Viewed 4256 times
6.jpg
6.jpg (23.56 KiB) Viewed 4256 times
1.jpg
1.jpg (23.9 KiB) Viewed 4256 times
Just a new guy here.
S Freeman
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:17 pm

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby willendure » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:13 am



I was just about to post that one up!

This jet appeared, was very bright, then disappeared all within 18 minutes. Given that the temperature is only changing very gradually, that would suggest that heating is less likely to be the cause of it.

What electrical activity might cause such a short-lived effect? A small burst of solar wind?
willendure
 
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby willendure » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:01 am

S Freeman wrote:How can that be? How can ice on a 'dirty snowball' 'suddenly' sublimate?


As I said above, the temperature is only changing gradually, so why a sudden effect? That said, it doesn't seem impossible. For example, temperature increases, some ice melts but is enclosed in a pocket of more solid material, and pressure builds up until it suddenly bursts out in a short-lived jet. (but of course, why a jet in that case and not a small explosion of the pressure bubble in all directions...).

So there may be possible explanations in the heat/ice model. What are the possible explanations in the electrical model?
willendure
 
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Oliver Lightside » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:57 am

Just a hunch, but I think we might see a new jet appear in the lower right foreground. This is based on the jets forming a hint of an equatorial hulu skirt around the waist of the comet.
Oliver Lightside
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:10 am

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby dodeca » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:32 am

Rosetta’s big day in the Sun:

Image


good timing..........

http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2015/08/13 ... n-the-sun/


sudden effect = discharge....?
dodeca
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:32 pm

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Frantic » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:26 pm

In the link from Dodeca they state water vapor is being shed at 300KG/s

Once again they are using indirect measurement of water vapor, correct? How do they reconcile this with the comparison of relative abundances shown in the graph of the previous particle. How do you account for disassociation of the CO, CO2, NH4,H2S, the incoming solar wind, and reactions with current materials in the coma?

This is the first time I saw the number of 300KG/s, or the previous number mentioned 300g/s. A 1000 fold increase. The abundances shown in the graph do not appear to show relation between jets and H2O content. Rather the changes in water shed, show a relation to solar wind concentrations. Rosetta reached 67P at 673M km,perihelion is 186M km. Just now the comet should be encountering the largest density of solar wind, right?

and next: They list dust shed at 1000kg/s, at this previous study : http://arxiv.org/abs/0709.0344 the mass loss was shown to be at most 250kg/s at perihelion. This number is greater than the 1000kg/s and 300kg/s. So of the material being "spewed" from the comet about 15% is being lost as mass, or the previous study was in error. So the idea of evaporation into space would come into question. The spewing material contributes to the atmosphere, reaction with the coma and the IPM generates the mass-loss and I don't know what correlation could be shown there between mass loss and surface material ejection.
Frantic
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:49 am

Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby S Freeman » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:14 am

willendure wrote:
S Freeman wrote:How can that be? How can ice on a 'dirty snowball' 'suddenly' sublimate?


As I said above, the temperature is only changing gradually, so why a sudden effect? That said, it doesn't seem impossible. For example, temperature increases, some ice melts but is enclosed in a pocket of more solid material, and pressure builds up until it suddenly bursts out in a short-lived jet. (but of course, why a jet in that case and not a small explosion of the pressure bubble in all directions...).

So there may be possible explanations in the heat/ice model. What are the possible explanations in the electrical model?



Well, if it came from melting subsurface ice, it would have to be deep:
Consider this:
http://www.astronomy.com/news/2014/08/rosetta-takes-comets-temperature
"Rosetta takes comet’s temperature"
"The spacecraft has found that Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko is too hot to be covered in ice and must instead have a dark dusty crust."

Also, if the material is a gas with no other force acting on it, why form coliminated jet?
A gas would immediately disperse as a circular plume when vented in a vacuum.
Just a new guy here.
S Freeman
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:17 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Electric Universe - Planetary Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests