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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:12 am

Lizzie
Try reading Jung (a materialistic, uniformitarian nit-wit) rather than the new age nit-wits who name-drop Jung in order to give their theories some sort of supposed scholarly kudos.
Jung has little if anything to do with either holistic or cosmology.
Synchronicity is the very antithesis of acausal.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby lizzie » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:42 pm

lizzie
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:36 pm

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby lizzie » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 pm

lizzie
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby moses » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:12 pm

'All is cause and effect' is religious doctrine. We do not know whether
action can form from nothing. We do not know whether consciousness
can produce action. If this cause of action is from beyond time is this
action acausal ? The materialist doctrine does not allow action arising
from a non-physical cause.
Mo
moses
 
Posts: 1102
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Location: Adelaide

Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:47 am

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby lizzie » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:39 am

lizzie
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby Divinity » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:38 am

[/quote GreyCloud]
How is the notion of cause and effect a religious doctrine. Aristotle for one, wrote on this subject.
Getting something from nothing is impossible according to every philosopher of the last several thousand years, from any continent. Thought precedes action. Potential precedes its realisation.
If the cause of an action is from beyond time then that from beyond time caused the action.
It does not matter what materialist doctrine allows. As I've just stated, thought precedes action. Thought is non-physical. So are love, fear and so on.[/quote]

[/quote Lizzie]
I agree. We do not KNOW whether action can form from nothing. Some people believe that there is an (acausal) Eternal Domain (the realm of God?) that exists beyond the (causal?) physical realm.[/quote]


If thought precedes action, then we are getting something from 'nothing but thought' constantly, surely? I agree thought precedes action and potential precedes its realisation. If we stopped looking to religion for answers and started to look at science, one would see Junglelord has already spelled out his belief (for example) that everything starts from a non-material structure, develops into a vortex and then onward into geometric shape and atomic structure. Thought/idea is the non-material structure in an Information Universe, and yes, it's non-physical until it reaches the vortex stage.

Every reality starts as a vortex. Every vortex starts as a non-material structure. The vortex is the first thing we 'see' as it enters the Universe. What's on the other side of that vortex? Perhaps another vortex? Perhaps the question we should be asking now is 'what is this domain on 'the other side''?

;)
Love Divinity
Divinity
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:04 pm

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby Divinity » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:50 pm

Divinity
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby moses » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:00 pm

If the cause of an action is from beyond time then that from beyond time caused the action.
Grey Cloud

You missed it - if the past causes the future and the future causes the past
then where is the initiator ? Also the experiencing of thought is non-physical,
but the generator of thought is physical.

Our minds create our 3D reality. In actual fact reality is probably multi dimensional,
it is just that we translate the multi dimensionally received info into a line of nerve
impulses and this induces experiencing which we treat as being 3D. Now this opens
the possibility of something that is far away in another dimension coming close to
us and thus effecting us. Thus this something was not measurable before coming
close to us, and then suddenly appeared out of nothing. Consciousness or experiencing
exists in another dimension.

It is of no use to say that the cause of something is beyond the physical.
Mo
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby Divinity » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:26 pm

Divinity
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby lizzie » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:48 pm

lizzie
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby Divinity » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:56 pm

Divinity
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Re: An Holistic Cosmology For the 21st Century

Unread postby moses » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:22 pm

Love and fear are non-physical? You could have fooled me on that one. Lizzie
Is the love or fear that you feel a bunch of electrical impulses ? Do you
know where this feeling is ? It's not easy to see, but the actual feeling
is completely different in nature to a bunch of electrical impulses.

If thought precedes action, then we are getting something for nothing. Do we pay for thoughts? Lizzie
The machinery of the brain or mind churns around and spits out a bunch
of electrical impulses that induce the experiencing of something that we
associate the word 'thought' with. So we are not getting such thoughts for
nothing, and all that churning means we are paying for the thought.
Maybe a thought can originate from consciousness alone, however this is
unsettling to consider. Easier to consider that a feeling arises from
consciousness or experiencing, because this is the nature of consciousness.
Mo
moses
 
Posts: 1102
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:18 pm
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