What are dreams?

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby Aeon » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:09 pm

People who want to know about dreams and their content should definitely read this book:

The Scientific Study of Dreams: Neural Networks, Cognitive Development, and Content Analysis

It shows through rigorous content analysis and neurophysiology that dreams do not fit the activation-synthesis model of dreaming.

http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Study- ... 1557989354
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby whitenightf3 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:18 am

Influx wrote:
One of the few biologists to propose a radically novel approach to these questions is Dr Rupert Sheldrake. In his book A New Science of Life Sheldrake rejected the idea that the brain is a warehouse for memories and suggested it is more like a radio receiver for tuning into the past. Memory is not a recording process in which a medium is altered to store records, but a journey that the mind makes into the past via the process of morphic resonance.


Oh wow, that is pure insanity, it would be labeled as such if the concept of time travel wasn't so popular.

Hey, can you take a drink love?

Can you eat music?

Can you take drink from the radio?

I suggest you read up on synaesthesia because the answer to your questions are yes.

On the dream theme:

Scientists have long known that the subconscious mind through dreams helps us solve problems we cannot solve at a conscious level. There are many cases on the record which show this is true Kekule solved the molecular structure of benzene when he dreamed of a snake swallowing his tail.
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby tolenio » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:06 am

Hello,

Possibly cryptochrome (CRY1, CRY2) found in the human eye, brain and skin should be introduced in relation to dreaming. Especially with recent hypothesis regarding its magnetoreception properties.

Cryptochromes—a potential magnetoreceptor: what do we know and what do we want to know?
Miriam Liedvogel1,2,* and Henrik Mouritsen1

Cryptochromes have been suggested to be the primary magnetoreceptor molecules underlying light-dependent magnetic compass detection in migratory birds. Here we review and evaluate (i) what is known about these candidate magnetoreceptor molecules, (ii) what characteristics cryptochrome molecules must fulfil to possibly underlie light-dependent, radical pair based magnetoreception, (iii) what evidence supports the involvement of cryptochromes in magnetoreception, and (iv) what needs to be addressed in future research. The review focuses primarily on our knowledge of cryptochromes in the context of magnetoreception.


If cryptochrome functions as a magnetoreceptor in both light and darkness could "radio receiver" be less lunacy and more science in regards to dreams?

Cryptochrome A photoreceptor with the properties of a magnetoreceptor?

Thorsten Ritz,1 T Yoshii,2 C Helfrich-Foerster,2 and Margaret Ahmad3

It was recently discovered that the photoreceptor cryptochrome is involved in mediating magnetosensitive entrainment of the internal clock of fruit flies.1 This discovery follows other recent studies implicating a role of cryptochrome in mediating magnetic sensitivity in orientation responses of fruit flies2,3 and growth responses of plants.4 Such widespread use of the same molecule for mediating magnetic sensitivity might suggest that cryptochrome is in some way optimal for detecting the magnetic field of the earth and that the magnetoreception function cannot be easily taken over by other molecules. This raises the question what properties might set cryptochromes apart from other molecules in terms of their ability to detect the geomagnetic field. Here, we will discuss possible answers to this question.


Would aspects of dreaming then fall into a related bucket with proposed "Remote Viewing"? The "mode" aspect of dreaming simply be a function between transmitter and receiver?

Cryptochromes

M Ahmad - Annual Review of Plant Biology, 2011 - annualreviews.org

... Note that dark and signaling states in cryptochromes are not firmly established. hυ indicates
photon absorption; +e − , electron donation to the FAD via the electron transfer chain (shown
in Figure 5); +H + , protonation of FAD° − ; and ET, electron transfer from FAD to a substrate. ...


I would suspect that matched transceivers, seperated only by time, would be excellent at sharing data. Recent work by CERN with the speed of neutrinos brings time into question... Time will tell...

Tom
"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby whitenightf3 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:58 am

Tom I think I have come across cryptochrome recently elsewhere will have to check but i think its to do with the failure to find the Higgs Boson and preventing the collapse of the Standard Model of physics.

Another factor in dreaming is that the pineal gland releases DMT which is known to be a psychedelic that causes hallucinations although I think these are real experiences people are having. Any way the work of Rick Strassman is well documented and his book DMT The Spirit Molecule is well worth reading as is Graham Hancock's excellent book Supernatural which touches on the same theme.
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby tolenio » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:39 am

Hi,

No, cryptochrome [CRY1], {CRY2] has to do with biology and is found in most every plant and animal on the planet and is theorized to be important in magnetoreception. It is found in the human eye, ear, brain and skin.

The research is in its infancy...

Human cryptochrome exhibits light-dependent magnetosensitivity
Lauren E. Foley,1 Robert J. Gegear1, 2 & Steven M. Reppert1
Journal name: Nature Communications
Volume: 2,Article number:356DOI:doi:10.1038/ncomms1364
Published21 June 2011

Humans are not believed to have a magnetic sense, even though many animals use the Earth's magnetic field for orientation and navigation. One model of magnetosensing in animals proposes that geomagnetic fields are perceived by light-sensitive chemical reactions involving the flavoprotein cryptochrome (CRY). Here we show using a transgenic approach that human CRY2, which is heavily expressed in the retina, can function as a magnetosensor in the magnetoreception system of Drosophila and that it does so in a light-dependent manner. The results show that human CRY2 has the molecular capability to function as a light-sensitive magnetosensor and reopen an area of sensory biology that is ready for further exploration in humans.


Tom
"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
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Associated Dreams

Unread postby Maxwell Jennings » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:05 pm

I had always assumed that dreams were nothing more than vignettes of memories and imagination created by the subconscious mind. As the subconscious works on tasks in the background to the conscious mind during our awake-state, it probably does this during the dream state as well. If you've ever forgotten something, such as a name, and then a few minutes or seconds later it pops into your conscious mind, this might be the subconscious mind taking the conscious mind's desire to remember something and processing that in the background, like a dual processor.

In 1994 I was in the midst of a very mystically-based project with a friend/coworker. Part of that project involved experimenting with the dream-state and more specifically, lucid dreaming. Typically, I don't remember my dreams, but Kristine always has vivid memories of her dreams. When we first delved into the dream-state experiments, I had an event that changed my assumption about dreams being simply strung-together bits of subconscious vignettes.

The dream: I was in an unrecognizable classroom setting with 6 rows of double lab-tables facing the front of the room. I was sitting in the second row of tables from the back of the room on the right side of the middle isle. As I lifted my head off the table, I felt extremely sedated, as if I was slowly coming to consciousness in the dream. A female teacher walked past my left down the middle isle toward the front of the room. I looked at the open but blank textbook in front of me, scribbled something on the page and then pushed it over to an awake-state coworker sitting at the next table over to my right. She had a shocked and then frozen look on her face and a second later I woke up.

That morning I described the basics of the dream to Kristine -- that I was in a classroom, a teacher walked past my left to the front of the room, I scribbled in a textbook and pushed it to the girl to my right who then looked shocked. Kris immediately described her dream. She was being escorted by three people, two males and a female. They came to a building and when the double doors opened, Kris realized it was a classroom and that the doorway was in the back of the room to the left side relative to the seating. The female escort entered the room and walked down the center isle toward the front of the room. There was a commotion and Kris saw other people dragging away an unconscious person from the other side of the room. My jaw dropped, realizing that we might have had an associated dream. I described the details of my dream, such as the gender of the teacher, the types of tables, the layout of the classroom, and where I was sitting. Kris confirmed every detail. I was stunned.

Eventually, we had at least a half dozen associated dreams and then she started having associated dreams with other people at work. She would describe a dream to a particular person and that person would have a very shocked look on their face as they listened to her description of the dream events.

How is that possible if dreams are nothing more than personal mental images? If two people are married or close friends and working on something specific together, I can see having similar dreams but not exactly the same dream setting or even during the same sleep period, but this doesn't explain why Kris was having associated dreams with other people that were not even friends.

Some unproven hypotheses I've come to is that the dream-state is happening at all times for everyone -- 24/7, even while awake. I've caught myself drifting off to sleep and noticing an already-in-process dream happening. Some researchers claim this is just a hypnogogic state and not really the dream-state. I've heard of dream researchers that have proven that the dream-state doesn't just happen during REM sleep. If some people do not naturally block out dream images as most people do while awake, then this could explain hallucinations and other mental aberrations such as voices and even supposed paranormal activity that seems to be external to the observer.
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby tolenio » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:30 pm

Hello,

Natural external stimuli can influence human behavior as evidenced by stock market volatility and solar activity;

Red is sunspot activity, black line stock market volatility...

solar market 2.JPG


This is a stress response we are not concious of.

Biofizika. 1998 Jul-Aug;43(4):632-9.
[Magnetic storms as a stress factor].
[Article in Russian]
Rapoport SI, Boldypakova TD, Malinovskaia NK, Oraevskiĭ VN, Meshcheriakova SA, Breus TK, Sosnovskiĭ AM.
SourceSechenov Medical Academy, Moscow, Russia.

Abstract
The functional characteristics variations during the magnetic storms were observed in both the healthy humans and in patients with cardio-vascular diseases as well as in cosmonauts at SOYUZ spacecraft and MIR station. These characteristics revealed a nonspecific adaptive stress reaction, which should be accompanied by the variations in the stress-hormone production rate. The neurohumoral regulation of the organism functions during the geomagnetic storms in a group of patients with cardio-vascular pathology and in a control group of healthy individuals were studied. The magnetic storm effect characterised of both the sick and healthy examines was the violated ratio of glucocorticoids and mineralocorticoids, namely increase of cortisone secretion (adrenal cortex hormone), as well as some tendency to the activation of sympathoadrenal system. Our investigations revealed also a suppressed production of melatonin (the pineal gland hormone) during the geomagnetic storm. These results are not in contradictions with the functional characteristics violation by the magnetic storms and correspond to the existence of adaptive stress reaction of the human organism to the geomagnetic field disturbances.



So if the concious mind can be steered by external stimuli why not dreams as well?

Tom
"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby tolenio » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:05 am

Hello,

Where would you like to repost it?

Tom
"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:28 pm

Would aspects of dreaming then fall into a related bucket with proposed "Remote Viewing"? The "mode" aspect of dreaming simply be a function between transmitter and receiver? 10-19


Hi Tom,

That would be the (rna) antennae, no ?

s

ps, like your solar flux synchronicities ~
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby tolenio » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:36 am

Hello,

Any conductor acts as an antenna. The entire human body is a conductor.

However, I would suspect that active hair folicles represent a perfect dipole antenna.

What does the body do when the primary senses are muted and there is apprehension? It raises it hair follicles.

Cryptochrome (magnetorecptor) is found in the human eye, brain and skin, if you could place a discreet antenna on the skin the system would be complete.

Magnetic fields produced by steady currents in the body

DAVID COHEN*, YORAM PALTIt, B. NEIL CUFFIN*, AND STEPHEN J. SCHMID**

..."The source associated with each follicle can therefore be considered as a current dipole pointing along the follicle into the root and located either within or near the follicle. If within, then this source could be, for example, equivalent to a polarized layer lining the follicle, with negative charges on the inside.


Goosebumps are supposed to be vestigual from when hair would be raised to make an animal look larger, but what if it had more than one function? Why would a naked ape lose the hair but keep the vestigual response unless there was a purpose for it?

What takes longer to lose in biology an adaptional behavior or physical biological components in the evolutiontionary process? I would suggest more is going on than we realize when hair follicles are raised, and a secondary sixth sense is being exercised collecting data with a disreet set of dipole antennas evaluating electromagnetic data of the surrounding environment.

But in general any conductor serves as an antenna to electromagnetic waves.

You can see exactly how the body works as an antenna here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLOx1kWCWoc

The voltage induced is simply electromagnetic waves hitting a conductor (antenna) [your body].

I would suggest that male pattern baldness is an adaptation suited to more aggressive males and moves active hair follicles from the head to the chest and back. Male pattern baldness is a side effect of elevated testosterone. Elevated testosterone makes animals more aggressive, and more aggressive animals get into more conflicts. Where would a more aggressive animal need active antenni for magnetic data collection from opponents? Where do active hair follicles move to in male pattern baldness?

Tom
"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby Influx » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:06 am

The effect of internal and external input on dreams.

I have had several experiences, four, to be exact, that demonstrate some interesting phenomena related to dreams. I make no claim that the descriptions that follow are the objective truth. The experiences are mine alone, even though I consider this to be empirical knowledge, it is still subjective.

But first. It seems to me that some people have thinly veiled preconceived notions about dreams, the brain, the mind and consciousness. Most of their ideas are nothing more than vague inferences based on a random “sampling” of new age books. This approach should be completely abandoned in favor of honest empirical methods of seeking understanding. Most of the assumed “new age” knowledge is the result of misplaced observation and interpretation of anomalous events and the attempt to explain the assumed cause-and-effect underlying these anomalous events, while lacking a broader context to see that most, if not all of these anomalous events, are unrelated.

One idea, as presented on the thread, is completely absurd. That of the brain being an antenna that receives consciousness. This idea is somehow proven by the fact that some people have lived fairly normal lives while missing all or significant portions of their brains. I do not deny the possibility that the brain might have some as of yet undiscovered radio like abilities.

But not as presented in this thread. If the physical radio is the human body, the brain the antenna of the radio, and the music is consciousness, then what would happen if the antenna got damaged? Well, in a real radio the music would cease as the radio would have no way to receive the signal. This means that if the brain is the antenna that receives consciousness from the outside of the body, any damage to the brain would interrupt the reception of the “music” and render that person unconscious.

So, if anything, the missing brain anomaly raises more questions than it ever begun to answer.

Now back to dreams.

One time I ate a bad sandwich, at that time a did not know it, and went to sleep. I had a vivid dream that I was in a plane crashing to the ground in a sicking spiral. I woke up to discover I had a horrifying case of nausea! And my room was spinning just like the plane had in my dream.

Thinking point.

My dream was aware of the condition of my body and used that to it's advantage, mainly to make the plane crash more realistic. Lol.

This illustrates how internal stimuli can effect dreams, but more importantly it illustrates that there is a communication pathway between our body and our mind. I used the word mind, rather then brain, because I think there is an important distinction between the two. It might be a well know fact that there is a direct link between the body and the brain, but it is more difficult to say that there is a link between the mind and the body. I mean this in the context of mind over body, to me that dream was the first clue that mind over body was, is a legitimate effect.

The next dream I had that demonstrated this link, was of a dog that bit me on the leg. I woke up with a vicious cramp on the exact spot where the dog had bit me in the dream. The interesting thing was that from the moment that I woke up in pain and to the moment I reached my leg with my hand to massage the cramp, it had went away by it self. The point is, as soon as I woke up the cramp disappeared. The dream was a fairly extensive type and had a long lead up to the dog bite.

Thinking point.

Did the dream cause the cramp?

Or did the cramp cause the dream? If so, how did my body know to “prepare” the appropriate dream ahead of the cramp? Or did the cramp last significantly longer than I realize?

Anyway, with these two dreams, I now believe that there is a clear link between the mind and the body, and that the subconscious mind can use the link with impunity! I now practice visualization with some interesting results!

To me these dreams were sufficient evidence for mind over body. So much so that I started experimenting with visualization for the express purpose of effecting my body. In the time since, I have learned to turn of pain, pretty much at will, however, the stronger the pain is, the longer and with more effort it takes to effect the pain. This might be my first baby steps, but if my dream could cause a cramp, I think I just barely scratched the surface of what I can learn to do with my body at will.
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby tolenio » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:40 am

One idea, as presented on the thread, is completely absurd. That of the brain being an antenna that receives consciousness. This idea is somehow proven by the fact that some people have lived fairly normal lives while missing all or significant portions of their brains. I do not deny the possibility that the brain might have some as of yet undiscovered radio like abilities.


At one time landing men on the moon was absurd, and the planet being a round sphere was absurd. The above observation may fall into this collection of absurdity.

Science research is now being done on the human ability of having a magnetic sense... Cryptochrome is found in the human eye, brain and skin.

Reaction Kinetics and Mechanism of Magnetic Field Effects in Cryptochrome

Ilia Solov'yov and Klaus Schulten
J. Phys. Chem. B, Just Accepted Manuscript
DOI: 10.1021/jp209508y
Publication Date (Web): December 15, 2011

Abstract

Creatures as varied as mammals, fish, insects, reptiles, and birds have an intriguing `sixth' sense that allows them to orient themselves in the Earth's magnetic field. Despite decades of study, the physical basis of this magnetic sense remains elusive. A likely mechanism is furnished by magnetically sensitive radical pair reactions occurring in the retina, the light-sensitive part of animal eyes. A photoreceptor, cryptochrome, has been suggested to endow birds with magnetoreceptive abilities as the protein has been shown to exhibit the biophysical properties required for an animal magnetoreceptor to operate properly. Here, we propose a theoretical analysis method for identifying cryptochrome's signaling reactions involving comparison of measured and calculated reaction kinetics in cryptochrome. Application of the method yields an exemplary light-driven reaction cycle, supported through transient absorption and electron-spin-resonance observations together with known facts on avian magnetoreception. The reaction cycle permits one to predict magnetic field effects on cryptochrome activation and deactivation. The suggested analysis method gives insight into structural and dynamic design features required for optimal detection of the geomagnetic field by cryptochrome and suggests further experimental and theoretical studies.


Can Humans Sense Earth's Magnetism? Human Retina Protein Can Function as Light-Sensitive Magnetic Sensor
ScienceDaily (June 21, 2011) — For migratory birds and sea turtles, the ability to sense Earth's magnetic field is crucial to navigating the long-distance voyages these animals undertake during migration. Humans, however, are widely assumed not to have an innate magnetic sense. Research published in Nature Communications this week by faculty at the University of Massachusetts Medical School shows that a protein expressed in the human retina can sense magnetic fields when implanted into Drosophila, reopening an area of sensory biology in humans for further exploration.

To test whether the human cryptochrome 2 protein (hCRY2) has a similar magnetic sensory ability, Steven Reppert, MD, the Higgins Family Professor of Neuroscience and chair and professor of neurobiology, graduate student Lauren Foley, and Robert Gegear, PhD, a post doctoral fellow in the Reppert lab now an assistant professor of biology and biotechnology at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, created a transgenic Drosophila model lacking its native cryptochrome protein but expressing hCRY2 instead. Using a behavioral system Reppert's group previously developed, they showed that these transgenic flies were able to sense and respond to an electric-coil-generated magnetic field and do so in a light-dependent manner.

These findings demonstrate that hCRY2 has the molecular capability to function in a magnetic sensing system and may pave the way for further investigation into human magnetoreception. "Additional research on magneto sensitivity in humans at the behavioral level, with particular emphasis on the influence of magnetic field on visual function, rather than non-visual navigation, would be informative," wrote Reppert and his colleagues in the study. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121319.htm


It is already known that geomagnetic storms induce a stress response in humans.

Biofizika. 1998 Jul-Aug;43(4):632-9.
Magnetic storms as a stress factor
[Article in Russian]
Rapoport SI, Boldypakova TD, Malinovskaia NK, Oraevskiĭ VN, Meshcheriakova SA, Breus TK, Sosnovskiĭ AM.
SourceSechenov Medical Academy, Moscow, Russia.

Abstract
The functional characteristics variations during the magnetic storms were observed in both the healthy humans and in patients with cardio-vascular diseases as well as in cosmonauts at SOYUZ spacecraft and MIR station. These characteristics revealed a nonspecific adaptive stress reaction, which should be accompanied by the variations in the stress-hormone production rate. The neurohumoral regulation of the organism functions during the geomagnetic storms in a group of patients with cardio-vascular pathology and in a control group of healthy individuals were studied. The magnetic storm effect characterised of both the sick and healthy examines was the violated ratio of glucocorticoids and mineralocorticoids, namely increase of cortisol secretion (adrenal cortex hormone), as well as some tendency to the activation of sympathoadrenal system. Our investigations revealed also a suppressed production of melatonin (the pineal gland hormone) during the geomagnetic storm. These results are not in contradictions with the functional characteristics violation by the magnetic storms and correspond to the existence of adaptive stress reaction of the human organism to the geomagnetic field disturbances.


Perhaps the recent findings of the CERN experiment and achieving speeds faster than the speed of light are absurd too, but after repeated requests by CERN for somebody to find an error in their data none has been found yet.

Ignorance and mistakes ares not absurdity, they are simply ignorance and mistakes.

Later,
Tom
"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby seasmith » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:59 pm

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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby ifrean » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:01 am

Had a dream the other morning...... the alarm went of at 06.00hrs, instead of hitting snooze i turned the alarm off, fell back asleep and had this wonderful dream......i was sheparding kids into a field of some sort with a 100ft drop on one side, a lot of banter and i duly fell over the side and scrambled down the incline into a canal, swam across the canal to a house where my deceased mother in law was living the life of a guru (she been dead several years now) was all excited to speak to her and she came out to me and sternly told me to get the bin lorry out of the canal, the sense of disappointment in mysel was palatable, so I turned around and swam back to the bin lorry, the wife then woke me up and i was late for work.

thinking about the dream and speaking to people about it I have to say that I used to work as a bin man and was a bin man when i met her and for many years after.

The meaning i took from the dream was simple, get out of bed and get to work to avoid a disciplinary hearing on tardiness.....cool dream though :)

my unconcsious mind telling my conscious mind to wake up
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Re: What are dreams?

Unread postby Influx » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:26 pm

tolenio wrote:Ignorance and mistakes ares not absurdity, they are simply ignorance and mistakes.


Sure, but drawing erroneous conclusions from the summary of the studies to support one's theories goes way past ignorance and mistakes.

The studies quoted demonstrate the effect of electromagnetic fields on the human physiology and I do not deny the fact that human beings can sense magnetic fields.

However I don't see how the studies support the idea that our brains are antennas and receive consciousness from outside the body.

I may be skeptical, but I am not closed minded, I just take the stance that crazy ideas need crazy proof.
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