Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby moses » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:29 pm

yeah, my question is, how do we cure it.
Benjamin

Clearly we are going too far here. However I do a form of psychtherapy
and there are many shamanic methods of healing. It is a massive
subject and not too electrical !! But it is a consequence of the Saturn
System, nevertheless.
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby polarityparadox » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:59 pm

"Clearly" - can you state why my ideas are "too far"


I say that the most grounded rendition of psychology I have come across is Reich's medical orgonomy and IT IS directly related to electricity in it bio-electric form, fused to orgone/torsion field energy. He found that the full orgasmic response (genital primacy) of a healthy un-armored person could be physically measured as an electric field on the skin to give a clue to the health of the individual. Read the interview of Reich where he speaks about Freud, very enlightening - Reich Speaks on Freud
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby bboyer » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:24 am

Plasmatic wrote:Have you guys read Cardonas books? <snip>


Unfortunately, extremely cost-prohibitive for my particular budget. Even more unfortunately (for the likes of me, that is), the used book offerings are even higher priced. :(

And no nearby public li-bary, assuming library copies are even available?

Would be nice if the publisher or author would make a cheaper electronic, downloadable pdf version available. But then that may not be very suitable to the economics of the situation, whatever those may be.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby lizzie » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:29 am

What was specifically political in intent? Catastrophe produces trauma; trauma affects human behavior; and human behavior affects interpersonal relationships. I wanted to show examples of peaceful societies that I thought might have existed prior to any catastrophic events; how trauma has created today's schizoid human; and "how schizoid behavior" creates imbalanced "power dynamics" (interpersonal relationships). In other words, what kind of "group dynamics" might have existed before and after "the fall"? Would they have been cooperative or exploitative?
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby Forum Moderator » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:20 am

lizzie wrote:What was specifically political in intent? Catastrophe produces trauma; trauma affects human behavior; and human behavior affects interpersonal relationships. I wanted to show examples of peaceful societies that I thought might have existed prior to any catastrophic events; how trauma has created today's schizoid human; and "how schizoid behavior" creates imbalanced "power dynamics" (interpersonal relationships). In other words, what kind of "group dynamics" might have existed before and after "the fall"? Would they have been cooperative or exploitative?


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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby lizzie » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:08 am

I apologize for my previous posting on this subject. I failed to place my links in the proper context.

We want to talk about the “human condition” as presented by de Grazia in “Homo Schizo”
http://www.quantavolution.org/vol_06/ho ... o_1_fw.htm

By what means did hominid become man? By electrochemical means, and suddenly. Was the change large or small? The change was substantially minute, but profound in its consequences. When did it happen? Recently -- about one thousand reproductive generations ago, which comes to about 260 memorial generations. What role did great natural forces play? They precipitated and perpetuated the change. Did culture spring up with, or did it lag behind, the human transformation? Culture sprang up with the gestalt of human creation. How many symptoms of mental illness are innate in man? All of them. How many cultures are "sick"? All of them, but the sickness is "normal." Can homo schizo aspire to become homo sapiens? One can aspire to a fiction, but cannot achieve it. Occasionally, a person, or even a group, can reach a delicate equilibrium, which can be called "reasonable," thus becoming homo sapiens schizotypus. Anything more than that is most uncertain.


If we are all members of the “homo schizoid” family, as de Grazia suggests, then all our “sacred” human institutions are also schizoid. So how can “schizoid” people talk to other “schizoid” people about these issues in a “non-schizoid" manner?

Themes:

How can we even begin to understand the scale of cosmic catastrophes when it is so totally foreign to us today? Start with Velikovsky?

What kind of societies might have existed in the past –- non-traumatized societies that thrived in a stress free environment. Most likely they were cooperative and egalitarian societies. What kinds of societies do we think existed then and why?

Catastrophe led to quantavolution, which, in turn, created Homo Schizo. Homo Schizo is a traumatized species. If we can understand the effects of trauma on human behavior on a smaller scale, will this help us to see how endemic it is for the entire human family?

What kinds of group dynamics (interpersonal relationships) do we think would most benefit us so we can “move beyond” our present impasse?

I thought Roger Williams Westcott covered all of the above really well.

"Predicting the Past" – Roger Williams Wescott
http://www.mikamar.biz/thunderbolts-product.htm

Author: Roger Westcott, 299 pages, 6"x9" hard-bound, ISBN: 0-917994-16-7.
Is the present condition of the world the result of eons of peaceful evolution? Or has Earth been shaped and reshaped by wrenching catastrophes—at least some of which were recent and widespread enough to have deeply traumatized all of humankind? This work is the summation of the author's thoughts regarding mythology, human prehistory, and catastrophism. Not only are the ideas presented in this work incendiary; they are also greatly educative. Wescott is, in every possible respect, reminding us of something we have lost and forgotten. As a cultural archaeologist, he unearths and reassembles shards of memory that still persist in our languages, institutions, and myths. What is more, he surveys our prospects of revivifying at least some portion of our primordial wholeness


Definitions of Civilization
http://www.wmich.edu/iscsc/civilization.html
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby bboyer » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:47 pm

lizzie wrote:<snip>
If we are all members of the “homo schizoid” family, as de Grazia suggests, then all our “sacred” human institutions are also schizoid. So how can “schizoid” people talk to other “schizoid” people about these issues in a “non-schizoid" manner?
<snip>


Gotta love it. :lol: Very astute question, imo.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby bboyer » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:34 pm

lizzie wrote:<snip>
What kind of societies might have existed in the past –- non-traumatized societies that thrived in a stress free environment. Most likely they were cooperative and egalitarian societies. What kinds of societies do we think existed then and why?

<snip>


Maybe there were no societies in the modern sense of the word. Perhaps "culture" is closer? However pre-catastrophic humans related to one another, I don't think it was via self-reflective thought. And who knows, maybe life was as violent in many respects as we see it today, but somehow I just don't think the "struggling" aspect existed, not in terms of the mental struggle that seems so pervasive in modern society.

I remember watching some nature, documentary type show years ago, Discovery Channel or some such, and seeing a lioness pursue and take down an antelope. At first I was struck by the violence of the encounter, but then as I watched, while the lioness held the antelope by the throat, and for the first few seconds the antelope physically struggled to free itself from the vise-like clutch of the lioness' jaws clamped down on its throat, it soon ceased struggling; and both creatures lay there amongst the grasses and heat, motionless, absolutely still, and you could literally see the life flow out of the antelope's eyes as it surrendered to the loss of its breath and lay still in suffocation. From start to finish, perhaps 60 or 90 of our consciously measured seconds. In contemplation of what I'd witnessed, I could detect my own anthropomorphic projection upon the "drama" - the spectrum of my own emotions and thoughts projected upon the animals as the scene played out. And it wasn't even a "real" event in the sense that I was watching a recorded, telecast of some past event that had occurred some-where.

There was no maliciousness involved in the dynamic between lioness and antelope. Nor any other type of self-reflective mental attributes. The "life-and-death struggle" took up so many minutes of both creatures total day. The bulk of their days being spent in calm repose, grazing, sleeping, rest, care for the young. Just being what or "who" they were, uncaring about the passage of "time." Is this just further anthropomorphizing projection? I don't think so. I perceive it as a small portion of probably what was common amongst all pre-catastrophic animals, including the postulated pre-schizoid human.

But all that presupposes the pre-catastrophic environment dynamics were the same as, or similar to, what we experience today. Was the difference only a lack of a mentally conceived "struggle for survival" (i.e. all in the mind) or was the entirety of environment more gentle, that golden-lighted, misty pre-purple dawn of creation? Or is even this just wishful thought projection, a nostalgic yearning for a return of The Golden Age; a symptom of our present schizoid discomfort and reflection of Steinbeck's wintry discontent?

Were the mammalian dynamics between carnivores and vegetarians (or, herbivores) even existent then? Had physicality even evolved to that point yet? Has eat and be eaten always ruled supreme? Should the idyllic sense of the lamb in repose with the lion be taken literally, or is it purely metaphor; nostalgic yearning for a fantasy past, or wishful projection of a hopelessly romantic future?
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby moses » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:24 am

"Clearly" - can you state why my ideas are "too far". Ben

I only meant that we are straying off topic, and off the EU theme.
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby lizzie » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:22 am

Code: Select all
I say that the most grounded rendition of psychology I have come across is Reich's medical orgonomy and IT IS directly related to electricity in it bio-electric form, fused to orgone/torsion field energy.


It's all about electromagnetism!

Why can we not assume that the atmosphere of the pre-catastrophic earth could have been radically different from what exists today. How would a radically different electromagnetic environment have affected human behavior? Would it be outlandish to assume that humans might have been able to levitate, or to communicate telepathically?

Do we need to focus first on understanding the effects of electromagnetism on human behavior? At least we can test this in the laboratory to some extent. Probably most of we would agree that radical changes in the earth’s electromagnetic environment would be caused by cosmic catastrophes. However, is it not possible that there could also be a concurrent (but more gradual) grand cycle at work as well? Perhaps it’s a combination of both.

I really enjoyed reading Walter Cruttenden’s “Lost Star of Myth and Time” because he does address that issue: The Yuga cycles are electromagnetic.

On Pages 72 to 75 he provides a description of the Four Ages in terms of lifestyle and characteristics.

Iron Age/Kali Yuga
Duration: 1200 years

The Age of Darkness

Lifestyle:

Mankind is ignorant of its glorious past, and doubts its existence. Reliance on manual labor and material inventions is common. War, disease, conflict, famine are prevalent. Governance is broken up across the globe and power fluctuates between those with the latest material advantages. Vice spreads through the means of greed, intoxication, and over-indulgence. The ancient Vedas tell us that even holy men of this age can be degenerate and perform their religious practices with ignorance or deceit.

As referred to by H.G. Wells: “there were few places where men could write, and little encouragement to write at all…But we know enough to tell that this age was an age not merely of war and robbery, but of famine and pestilence…To many in those dark days it seemed that all learning and all that made life seemly and desirable was perishing.”

Characteristics:

Man thinks of himself primarily as a material being. Meditation, compassion, and purity are scarce. Man believes he is supreme, the only life in the universe, and exploits the resources of the Earth for personal gain. Vyasa, an Indian sage in ancient times, foresaw the decline of civilization in Kali. William H. Deadwyler, author and PhD in religion writes: “Vyasa sees the effects of chronic malnutrition on generation after generation; he watches it gradually diminish their span of life along with their brain power; no one can escape the progressive drop in intelligence and ability to remember. The harassment of hard times upon and increasingly witless populace hastens its moral and spiritual decline. Leadership falls into the hands of unprincipled criminals who use their power to loot the people. The world teems with ideologues, mystagogues, fanatics, and spiritual bunko-artists who win huge followings among a people dazed by social and moral anarchy. Unspeakable depravities and atrocities flourish under a rhetoric of high ideals.”

Bronze Age/Dwapara Yuga
Duration: 2400 years

Lifestyle:

The fog of materialism begins to lift and man discovers that he is more than mere flesh and bones; he is an energy form. Men of this Age build great civilizations, more concrete and less spiritual that those of the Golden and the Silver Ages, but still superior to any civilization of earlier times. During this Age, man has mastery and control of the “illusion” of space. He understands the finer forces of Creation which are reflected in many new discoveries and inventions. Knowledge of all kinds is accelerated tremendously, transforming all strata of life. The end of our Dwapara Yuga marks the completion of two of the four Ages and the Divine powers inherent in man are developed to half their true extent.

Characteristics:

Man begins to expand his horizons and understands that all matter is an expression of energy, vibratory force, and electrical attributes. They begin to comprehend the mystery of matter, harness electrical energy and ultimately conquer space. The ancients referred to this Yuga as a “space annihilator” -- a time when man understand the five electricities and when “space” itself no longer separates object from object, person from person. According to Laurie Pratt (writing in the 1930s): “Thus far, only two of the five kinds of electricities, corresponding to sight and sound, have been developed. Three more remain for the future, when we may reach across the world to touch beloved friends and to smell and taste objects in their rooms.”

Silver Age/Treta Yuga
Duration: 3600 years

Lifestyle:

Although less material than the preceding age, there is great prosperity on all levels, and advanced fields of science and art add a new dimension to civilization. Mankind as a whole lives more in harmony with subtle forces and the natural rhythms of the Universe. Creation is experienced as a symbiotic relationship between the receptive and nurturing feminine qualities and the masculine qualities of reason and strength. Life in this era marked by a deep respect and understanding of nature and the universe, as well as the human body, seen as an integral part of the Cosmos. These people truly understand the Oneness of all things and are adept at perceiving the unity of the Cycles of the Univese and their impact on human life.

Characteristics

Also known as the mental age. The majority of people in this age ralize they are composed mostly of ideas. “In Treta Yuga, man extends his knowledge and power over the attributes of universal magnetism, the source of the positive, negative, and neutralizing electricities, and the two poles of creative attraction and repulsion. His natural state or caste in this period is that of Bipra, or perfect (human) class, and he succeeds in piercing the third veil of Maya, the Illusion of Time, which is Change.” (Laurie Pratt) Dharma (divine law) is only slightly diminished compared to the Golden Age.

Golden Age/Satya Yuga
Duration: 4800 years

Lifestyle:

Earth in this Age is a primordial paradise, a literal “Garden of Eden.” Truth (Satya) reigns supreme. The Persian poet Rumi captures the essence of this time: “Any beauty the world has, any desire, will easily be yours. As you live deeper in the heart, the mirror gets clearer and cleaner…You break the spells human difficulties cause.”

This Age is truly a time of Enlightenment, of abundance, without even the concept of struggle. Man’s basic needs are met easily and simply. He lives in complete attunement with Nature and Spirit. Plato wrote of this area: “…the earth gave them fruits in abundance, which grew on trees and shrubs unbidden, and were not planted by the hand of man. And they dwelt naked, and mostly in the open air, for the temperature of their seasons, was mild; and they had no beds, but lay on soft couches of grass, which grew plentifully out of the earth.”

The Mahanirvana Tantra (1400 BC or earlier), like Hesiod, states there is neither famine nor sickness, nor untimely death. People are good-hearted, happy, and propperous. Society is virtuous and peaceful.

Characteristics:

During the apex of the Golden Age, the majority of people know that they are spiritual beings composed of ideas and energy in a physical body. It is an era characterized by divine knowledge and wisdom. People have complete mastery over time and space and comprehend the Source of universal magnetism which is the very structure and “texture” of the physical universe. They grasp the mystery of Vibration, known as Aum in Eastern religion. There is no need for outward imagaes, rites, and rituals to help people maintain their link with Divinity.

According to the great French alchemist Fulcanelli, “Living a contemplative existence, in harmony with a fertile, rejuvenated earth; our blessed ancestors were unacquainted with desire, pain or suffering.”
There is a profound simp0licity to life, with none of the friction caused by the duality of strife of the lower ages.


Why the Saturn myth? Well, after I had read “Hamlet’s Mill,” I was convinced the ancients were trying to tell me something. One day I just “googled” in “ancient sun”; the next thing I remember was that I had purchased a book called “God Star” from a website called Thunderbolts and in the process converted to the EU.

“God Star” was the first book I ever read that made me believe that a Golden Age might really have existed. Doesn't de Grazia's "Solar Binaria" model also show a type of polar configuration.
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:33 am

Greetings and salutations.

Lizzie wrote:
It's all about electromagnetism!


I would say it's all about vibration. Consider: Aum, 'And God said let there be light..' (OT) and 'In the beginning was the Word'. (NT). Also Feng Shui, aromatherapy, crystals, etc. Not forgetting Pythagoras' Harmony of the Spheres.

The numbers Cruttenden is using for the Yuga lengths come from a C19th Brahmin, Sri Yukteswar. They differ considerably from the traditional lengths. According to Sri Yukteswar, Kali Yuga has a descending and ascending phase. The descending phase began in 701BCE and the ascending in 499CE. Kali ended in 1699CE and we are now in the Dwapara Yuga.

The concept of Yugas is related to the concept of 'Involution and Evolution'. Brahma breathes out (everything moves away from the godhead; from One to many), this is involution. Brahma breathes in (everything returns to the godhead; from many back to One), this is evolution.
According to this doctrine which is not restricted to the Vedic tradition, we 'humans' came to Earth in the Golden Age or Satya, have moved down through Treta/Silver, Dwapara/Bronze and Kali/Iron. That is the descending cycle complete. We are now moving back on the ascending cycle. [Sing: 'Things can only get better ...']

Marrying the above with the Precession of the Equinoxes is not so simple methinks. The overall princple of cyclic time is similar but the dates do not tally. For some precession dates see my post:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... f=13&t=317

The Universe works to the Law of Three and in a four-phase cycle. The Alchemists too have such a four phase cycle but their's begins with Winter. According to alchemy, all life begins in the dark (think you in the womb and seedlings). In alchemy, autumn is when everything dies not winter. If you take a day: then midnight to sunrise; sunrise to noon; noon to sunset; sunset to midnight. The moon has a similar cycle, as does, obviously, the year.
[Note the OT quote above, implies that there was dark prior to the let there be light. Laotzu calls the Dao the 'Dark Mother']

Do we need to focus first on understanding the effects of electromagnetism on human behavior? At least we can test this in the laboratory to some extent. Probably most of we would agree that radical changes in the earth’s electromagnetic environment would be caused by cosmic catastrophes. However, is it not possible that there could also be a concurrent (but more gradual) grand cycle at work as well? Perhaps it’s a combination of both.


Aside from changing 'electromagnetism' to 'vibration' in the first sentence, I agree with you entirely. My reading of things is that we have been 'dumbing-down' (for want of a better phrase) since we arrived on Earth. We have descended not fallen; it is all part of the plan (and no, I do not know what the plan is (I wish I did)).

Wilhelm Reich was certainly an interesting fellow but unfortunately I do not have the technicals to fully appreciate him. I read Hamlet's Mill a couple of years ago and wasn't that impressed. Admittedly it was pretty radical for an academic book back in its day but non-PhDs have been saying the same things and more for the last couple of thousand years. Plato in Timaeus mentions that the solar eliptic and the galactic eliptic are at an angle to each other; he mentions the varying speeds of the different planets; conjunctions and precession. Why is it that nothing is deemed true until a modern PhD says it is?

I haven't got a lot of time (cyclical or linear) for Grazia and Crosthwaite. The former is a typical modern 'expert' who has to complicate things by making up pointless terms and phrases, and the latter is not a scholar by any stretch of the imagination. His books seem to be just catalogues of instances of what he thinks are telling references to catastrophe. He makes no attempt at putting them in their original context or differentiating between statement, allegory, metaphor etc.

Lizzie: if you are interested in Fulcanelli and/or precession check out
http://www.jayweidner.com

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If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby bboyer » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:01 am

Grey Cloud wrote:Greetings and salutations.

I would say it's all about vibration. Consider: Aum, 'And God said let there be light..' (OT) and 'In the beginning was the Word'. (NT). Also Feng Shui, aromatherapy, crystals, etc. Not forgetting Pythagoras' Harmony of the Spheres.

<snip>

Aside from changing 'electromagnetism' to 'vibration' in the first sentence, I agree with you entirely. <snip>


What is your objection to the term "electromagnetism"?

I haven't got a lot of time (cyclical or linear) for Grazia and Crosthwaite. <snip>


But, you do see, this is a thread is about the works authored by de Grazia (and Jaynes) despite its appearing to be steered further afield?
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:23 am

My 'objection' to electromagnetism is that it is only a part of vibration. I know we tend to think in terms of 'the electromagnetic spectrum' but I have the feeling (absolutely no proof) that the EM spectrum is only a small part of some 'other' spectrum.
Or, put in different terms, EM or the EM spectrum is only the physical material aspect of 'vibration'.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
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The great Way is simple
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby bboyer » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:33 am

Grey Cloud wrote:My 'objection' to electromagnetism is that it is only a part of vibration. I know we tend to think in terms of 'the electromagnetic spectrum' but I have the feeling (absolutely no proof) that the EM spectrum is only a small part of some 'other' spectrum.
Or, put in different terms, EM or the EM spectrum is only the physical material aspect of 'vibration'.


Hmm. If you ever get the time and inclination maybe you'll take a read through of the cymatics thread (here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=38&st=0&sk=t&sd=a) ... it's very long and really should be began at pg 1 but I sort of think I have a clue where you're coming from. But I don't really want to get into it here as it would deserve a thread of its own, or taken up in the cymatics thread or one of the other more appropriate existing threads.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind

Unread postby lizzie » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:03 pm

Anyways, has anyone else connected the dots between the spectrum of sound and that of EM?


Yes. I am convinced they are different expressions of the same primary force, electricity, and that eventually we will be able to convert EM waves to sound waves and vice-versa. However, I believe you are correct in that it deserves a thread of its own.

So I can see what Grey Cloud means by vibrations since that is a more inclusive term.

Sound Waves
http://umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/ling ... coust1.htm

Scientists can identify different substances by looking at the spectrum of the light the substances emit when they're heated. Iron will glow with a different set of frequencies than nickel or sulphur.

The situation is similar with sound. The complex wave for an [i] will be composed of a different set of frequencies than the complex wave for [a].

We need a way to separate a complex sound wave out into its component frequencies (and their amplitudes) so that we can see what makes vowels different. A spectrograph is essentially just a prism for sound.


This would indicate that the ancients saw sight (EM waves?) and sound as two of the five electricities:

Thus far, only two of the five kinds of electricities, corresponding to sight and sound, have been developed


In view of what I have just read today about the Sansbury’s model, I wonder if this is a reference to unifying gravity with the electromagnetism:

…the source of the positive, negative, and neutralizing electricities, and the two poles of creative attraction and repulsion
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