The case for antediluvian telepathy

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby StefanR » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:10 pm

In previous chapters we've encountered Perennialist teachers who with their unclouded wisdom were able to distinguish between the realities and unrealities of human existence. "Such stuff as dreams are made on," Shakespeare described it.
Their ability to discern spiritual realities within and above this terrestrial plane was gained as they began to "see" with the spiritual body. Boone, the author of Kinship With All Life,had studied many of these teachers, and understood that they sometime called this capability "the faultless eye of Truth," "the eye of the Soul," "the eye of the Mind," or "the eye of the Understanding." And Boone had spent sufficient time with American Indians to know that with their simple, direct approach they called this supernormal faculty "in-seeing," "in-hearing," or "in-knowing."
Boone developed this kind of faculty through his relationship with Strongheart, a German Shepherd dog who had starred in a number of American movies in the early twentieth century. Boone was taught this "inner seeing" through his long association with his truly fabulous canine teacher. Boone was actually able to see and discern Strongheart as a unique reality in the larger scheme of universal wisdom.
While Strongheart's "owners" were away, Boone had been tasked with caring for the dog. He could sense from the beginning that there was something extraordinary about Strongheart. Not just his trained ability to open doors and sense everything that was going on about him. Boone slowly came to realize that Strongheart was actually his teacher. Their shared journey into what Boone called "larger certainties" began when Boone started studying the special qualities that Strongheart evinced in everything he did. Boone simply observed the dog for hours on end and then itemized Strongheart's qualities with the aid of a book of synonyms and a dictionary.
"The more I did this the more I lifted my concept of Strongheart out of the physical and into the mental, and out of the mental into the spiritual. Thus I was constantly translating him into what he really was back of his physical appearance--an illimitable idea. . . "
Strongheart and Boone spent many hours on a high hill overlooking the valleys below, a spot Strongheart had picked out. During these times of silence together, Boone decided to interview Strongheart as though he were "a distinguished but difficult-to- understand foreigner." He spoke to him mentally in order not to disturb the sanctuary stillness in which they were both sitting. Boone aimed his soundless messages at the back of Strongheart's head, asking him questions having to do with Strongheart's personal life, with Boone, with human-animal relationships in general.
One day, as Boone was carrying on this silent interview procedure, Strongheart suddenly swung his head around and began staring at Boone, and right through him. To Boone, it was unexpected--and startling.
After an extensive period of time, Strongheart turned his head back to its original position and calmly resumed looking off into space as he usually did. Within himself Boone was certain that Strongheart had been silently answering his questions. And Boone suddenly realized that he was actually able to understand what Strongheart had said to him. The proof was that Boone instantly had answers to practically every question he had asked, answers that he subsequently verified in every detail.
"Sitting there on the ledge with his back in my direction, Strongheart had heard the questions I had mentally asked him. When I went into that blank state of mind, without knowing what I was doing I had become mentally open and receptive. Then, turning his head in my direction so as to get my full attention, he had silently answered my questions. I had spoken to Strongheart in the kind of speech which does not have to be uttered or written, and he had replied to me in the same language. Without the exchange of a sound or a gesture between us, each had perfectly understood the other. I had at last made contact with that seemingly lost universal silent language which, as those illumined ancients pointed out long ago, all life is innately equipped to speak with all life whenever minds and hearts are properly attuned.
"What made our silent conversations so easy and so rewarding was the invisible Primary Factor that was responsible for the entire activity. In order to understand this deeply hidden secret, it is important to know that what actually went on in those communion sessions of ours was not the hit-or-miss exchange of thoughts between the 'larger and more important brain of a human' and the 'smaller and less important brain of a dog.'"
"Not at all. Brains as such had no more to do with it than ribs. It was something far more authoritative. And that something had all the immensity, all the power, all the intelligence, all the love of the boundless Mind of the Universe moving back of it and in it and through it.
"Neither Strongheart nor I was doing any communicating as of ourselves. Neither of us was expressing himself as an original thinker or an independent source. On the contrary, we were being communicated through by the Mind of the Universe. We were being used as living instruments for its good pleasure. that primal, illimitable and eternal Mind was moving through me to Strongheart, and through Strongheart to me."
Boone felt privileged to learn from his dog teacher how to get hishuman ego and intellect out of the way, how to blend his best with Strongheart's best, and how to let the Universe express itself through them, "as the Universe with its wisdom and long experience well knows how to do. . . "
As Boone became more skilled in this silent communication he experienced the answers to his questions coming to him with a gentle kind of impact, as a "still small voice" "whispering the needed information within . . . or a sudden awareness . . . or a revealing suggestion . . . or swift enlightenment . . . or a clear direction for solving a particular problem."
In the transitions from not-knowing to knowing, Boone was never conscious of having to make any particular mental effort. He simply became as still and as receptive as possible--and listened to Strongheart's messages. Sooner or later the messages came. The experience for Boone was as if he were suddenly remembering something he had always known but temporarily had forgotten in the fogs and confusions of human experience.
"Thus did Strongheart and I share in that silent language which the Mind of the Universe is constantly speaking through all life and for the greater good of all life. Thus did we make use of that wondrous inner route from mind to mind and from heart to heart. Thus did we cross each other's boundaries, only to find that there were no boundaries separating us from each other, except in the dark illusions of the human senses."

Page 403 and further, from The Perennial Tradition by Norman D. Livergood
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7525444/Perennial-Tradition-by-NORMAN-Liver-Good

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Kinship With All Life (1976)

by J. Allen Bone

With their unclouded wisdom and their ability to define things as they truly are, these spiritual pioneers made clear-cut distinctions between the realities and unrealities of existence. From their pinnacles of discernment they recognized physical phenomena as not the real facts at all but merely counterfeits of the divine. And illusory, temporal, human concept. A mass-mesmeric distortion. "Such stuff as dreams are made on," as Shakespeare phrased it. They had various names for the inner capacity by means of which they were able to distinguish between the real and the unreal. Some of them called it "the faultless eye of Truth." Others preferred "the eye of the Soul," or "the eye of the Mind," or "the eye of the Understanding." The American Indian, with his simple, direct approach to the great verities of being, calls this valuable faculty "in-seeing," or "in-hearing," or "in-knowing."
This is the kind of faculty that I finally had to come to use with Strongheart [a German Shephard dog who had starred in many movies] in order to begin actually seeing and knowing him as he really was in the great over-all plan and purpose of life...
Our escape into these larger certainties began the day that I started hunting for his character qualities with the aid of the book of synonyms and the dictionary.
The more I did this the more I lifted my concept of Strongheart out of the physical and into the mental, and out of the mental into the spiritual. Thus I was constantly translating him into what he really was back of his physical appearance - an illimitable idea...
Then just for fun I decided to interview the dog ahead of me as though he were a distinguished but difficult-to-understand foreigner. I went to work on him as a reporter, talking across to him mentally in order not to disturb the sanctuary stillness in which we were both sitting, aiming all that I soundlessly said at the back of his head. I asked him questions having to do with his most intimate life, with me, with us, with human-animal relationships...
Suddenly, and without the least sound from me to attract his attention, Strongheart swung his head around and began staring at me, and right through me, with those big eyes of his. It was unexpected - and startling.
I do not know how long he kept those x-ray eyes focused on me. It may have been only a few minutes; it may have been much longer. My situation was something like that of the fabulous monk of long ago who, you may recall, went out one unusually fine spring morning to listen to meadow lark sing, and when he returned all his friends were gone; three hundred years had passed by. Such things as time and space disappear in the presence of greater realities.
Presently Strongheart turned his head back to its original position and calmly resumed looking off into space. And the - as easily and naturally as though such things were a regular part of everyday experience - I knew that Strongheart had been silently talking back to me. And I had actually been able to understand what he had said to me! The proof was that I had answers to practically every question I had asked, answers that were subsequently verified in every detail.
Sitting there on the ledge with his back in my direction, Strongheart had heard the questions I had mentally asked him. When I went into that blank state of mind, without knowing what I was doing I had become mentally open and receptive. Then, turning his head in my direction so as to get my full attention, he had silently answered my questions. I had spoken to Strongheart in the kind of speech which does not have to be uttered or written, and he had replied to me in the same language. Without the exchange of a sound or a gesture between us, each had perfectly understood the other. I had at last made contact with that seemingly lost universal silent language which, as those illumined ancients pointed out long ago, all life is innately equipped to speak with all life whenever minds and hearts are properly attuned...
What made our silent conversations so easy and so rewarding was the invisible Primary Factor that was responsible for the entire activity. In order to understand this deeply hidden secret, it is important to know that what actually went on in those communion sessions of ours was not the hit-or-miss exchange of thoughts between the "larger and more important brain of a human" and the "smaller and less important brain of a dog." Not at all. Brains as such had no more to do with it that ribs. It was something far more authoritative. And that something had all the immensity, all the power, all the intelligence, all the love of the boundless Mind of the Universe moving back of it and in it and through it.
Neither Strongheart nor I was doing any communicating as of ourselves. Neither of us was expressing himself as an original thinker or an independent source. On the contrary, we were being communicated through by the Mind of the Universe. We were being used as living instruments for its good pleasure. that primal, illimitable and eternal Mind was moving through me to Strongheart, and through Stongheart to me. Thus I came to know that it moves through everything everywhere in a ceaseless rhythm of harmonious kinship.
I was privileged to learn from my dog instructor how to get my human ego and intellect out of the way, how to blend my best with Strongheart's best, and how to let the Universe express itself through us, as the Universe with its wisdom and long experience well knows how to do...
I would ask him a specific question. When the answer came, it arrived with the gentlest kind of impact. It came as a "still small voice" whispering the needed information within...or a sudden awareness...or a revealing suggestion...or swift enlightenment...or a clear direction for solving a particular problem.
I was never conscious of having to make any particular effort in these transitions from not-knowing to knowing. I simply became as still and as receptive as possible - and listened. Sooner or later it just happened. It was like suddenly remembering something I had always known but temporarily had forgotten in the fogs and confusions of human experience.
Thus did Strongheart and I share in that silent language which the Mind of the Universe is constantly speaking through all life and for the greater good of all life. Thus did we make use of that wondrous inner route from mind to mind and from heart to heart. Thus did we cross each other's boundaries, only to find that there were no boundaries separating us from each other, except in the dark illusions of the human senses.

http://www.hermes-press.com/rebirth2.htm
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:35 pm

tholden wrote:
Jaynes of course accepted an evolutionary paradigm and referred to the right side analog as a "hallucinatory" area and to the voices as "audible hallucinations".

Nonetheless that would require that man had evolved an organ which had no other purpose than to cause him to experience hallucinations, and evolution (to the extent that it ever works) does not work that way at all. A group of humans evolving the ability to hallucinate would very quickly be overwhelmed and annihilated by other groups of humans who had remained sane.


Jaynes, in keeping with his reducto-analytic training, did his best to apply chirality to the mind but fell a bit short.

Simply, our (small) mind is as a transceiver- Receiving and Transmitting.
Our brain, is a dual-transceiver. Able to communicate on our existal level And within the realm Jayne might have called para-normal;
but which untold generations of our forefathers called of the 'gods'.

As Mague has said, one channel in this noisy & egoical age is pretty much blocked up with static, yacity-yac and Fear.

~
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby tholden » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:27 pm

Ursine intro to Julian Jaynes on Youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aKXn9XHuEw

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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby mague » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:53 am

seasmith wrote:tholden wrote:
Jaynes of course accepted an evolutionary paradigm and referred to the right side analog as a "hallucinatory" area and to the voices as "audible hallucinations".

Nonetheless that would require that man had evolved an organ which had no other purpose than to cause him to experience hallucinations, and evolution (to the extent that it ever works) does not work that way at all. A group of humans evolving the ability to hallucinate would very quickly be overwhelmed and annihilated by other groups of humans who had remained sane.


Jaynes, in keeping with his reducto-analytic training, did his best to apply chirality to the mind but fell a bit short.

Simply, our (small) mind is as a transceiver- Receiving and Transmitting.
Our brain, is a dual-transceiver. Able to communicate on our existal level And within the realm Jayne might have called para-normal;
but which untold generations of our forefathers called of the 'gods'.

As Mague has said, one channel in this noisy & egoical age is pretty much blocked up with static, yacity-yac and Fear.

~


As in the shepherd dogs story... brain has nothing to do with it.

Our brain is nothing more then a relational database. It stores informations/knowledge and is able to "grow" some shortcuts for convenient access of data. The active vocabulary is 2000-5000 words. The full database of an educated person is somewhere near 50.000 words.

But the brain does not express nor does it create. It has a few useful relational hyperlinks to form full sentences according to another learned grammar database. Still the brain does not create, not compose nor does it innovate. This all happens somewhere else. Since every part of our body is able to memorize trauma, it is also able to memorize other "stuff". Our existence is a full body experience. But the most creative work is done on the pure energetic/spiritual/emotional plane. Do not think a lobotomized person lost his intelligence, he just lost his database. Big difference.

As in Ancient Egypt or in the vedic India the heart on the energetic/spiritual plane is a dual circuit powered spark. The power is external and fuels a flame that is "not from this world". It is the source of all creation, expression and innovation.
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:53 pm

telepathic and telephonic communication

Simply, our (small) mind is as a transceiver- Receiving and Transmitting.
Our brain, is a dual-transceiver...

Mague wrote:

.....brain has nothing to do with it.


Brain is involved in the sense that, as the Physical channel, we use it to speak and hear.
Mind and brain are attached at the hyp (othalamus).

Despite one's personal distaste for our existal realm, we need consider the whole picture to
understand our condition.

~
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby mague » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:40 am

seasmith wrote:telepathic and telephonic communication

Simply, our (small) mind is as a transceiver- Receiving and Transmitting.
Our brain, is a dual-transceiver...

Mague wrote:

.....brain has nothing to do with it.


Brain is involved in the sense that, as the Physical channel, we use it to speak and hear.
Mind and brain are attached at the hyp (othalamus).

Despite one's personal distaste for our existal realm, we need consider the whole picture to
understand our condition.

~


You probably got me wrong there.

I wanted to say that the signals are there not mater if we talk about them or not or if we learned a language or not. It is also that many of us first talk about "emotions" with themselves. Those use language to grasp their own emotions, which probably is the wrong approach. The world of words is a dangerous place, since words can be charged this or the other way. Depending on the current, often local, social agreement. Which means you may collide with your own feelings. Thats a good start for a schizophrenia. At least those persons will waste energy due to inner collisions which might result in physical sickness. Freud's Oedipus complex is about stuff that never should be enter the world of words. The emotions are flowing water, once packed into words the water freezes and its extremely hard to melt it. Thats the social power of words. Not long ago right-top was god and left-bottom was hell. Tens of thousands of left-handed people have been forced to switch to right-handed. If you have been dark, left and down you have been scum. Just words ;)

When it comes to a translation into language you are right ofc. Kant and Hegel are some of the most intense examples about it. Reminds me of a student i have once met. He said: Now i am able to read Kant and Hegel and now i know that i dont care about it ;)
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby StevenJay » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:05 am

mague wrote:As in Ancient Egypt or in the vedic India the heart on the energetic/spiritual plane is a dual circuit powered spark. The power is external and fuels a flame that is "not from this world". It is the source of all creation, expression and innovation

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees the parallel between this and the EU/PC models, with both being exquisite, holographic, fractal (infinite) expressions of Consciousness.

And therein lies the rub, IMO, between the gravity-driven "big bang" model and the "EU" model of the Universe. The first is couched in "finites" and the latter is couched in "infinites" (something the "finites" camp is extremely uncomfortable with). In fact, I'll go so far as to say that those two states of awareness have always been at the root of most, if not all, misunderstanding and confrontation in the world.
It's all about perception.
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby tholden » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:10 am

New video on Old Testament concepts of crime:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U95fjTEuk2w

Again I believe there was more to the Jaynes discoveries than just hallucinations but, in the case of idolatry, Jaynes was on the money.
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:42 am

tholden wrote:New video on Old Testament concepts of crime:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U95fjTEuk2w

Again I believe there was more to the Jaynes discoveries than just hallucinations but, in the case of idolatry, Jaynes was on the money.

The guy doesn't know what he is talking about. He's just another right-wing Christian ignoramus and one-book wonder, or two-book wonder if one counts Jaynes.
He is conflating two separate but related themes - idolatry and magic.
He, and you, should try reading up on Egyptian magic and Neoplatonism. Egyptian magic pre-dates the OT Exodus and Neoplatonism post-dates Alexander which makes a nonsense out of one of your man's comments in the video.

If Jaynes' hypothesis is correct regarding the 'voices in the head' being a part of human evolution then it should also be reflected in every culture within the time-frame. Did Jaynes produce any evidence from the Vedas, which pre-date the Iliad by millenia?
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby tholden » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:18 pm

Grey Cloud wrote:The guy doesn't know what he is talking about.


Seems obvious enough to me who who doesn't know what he's talking about here...
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby mague » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:27 am

The sound of the youtube video is so horrible, i cant understand what he is saying.

Here is a breakdown of Jaynes's theory from his website
http://www.julianjaynes.org/overview.php

Jaynes's theory can be broken down into four independent hypotheses:

1. Consciousness — as he carefully defines it — is a learned process based on metaphorical language.
2. That preceding the development of consciousness there was a different mentality based on verbal hallucinations called the bicameral ('two-chambered') mind.
3. Dating the development of consciousness to around the end of the 2nd millennium B.C. in Greece and Mesopotamia. The transition occurred at different times in other parts of the world.
4. That the bicameral mind is based on a double-brain neurological model.


1) Wrong. Consciousness was there long before someone started to walk on two legs. We really may use the bible here: In the beginning there was nothing. And god said: There shall be light and there was light.

2) There may have been and there may still be cases where hallucinations come out of the mind. 90% of all diseases of civilisation are based, collateral or lateral, on such mind hallucinations. The preceding mentality was the shamans world. Since Shamanism is able to prove 15000 years of tradition, in reality most probably double or triple of the proven timeframe, it is accepted by WHO for a while now. Oracles and similar people are all part of the shamanic world.

There is no hardware based verbal hallucination in the shamanic tradition. Such people are called idiots in the Shamans world. Anything, really anything is just based on the consistency and density of the Consciousness that was always there. Its based on spirits or in modern words on self-aware energy.

Humans have been taught by those who have been here before us. Plants, animals, wind and water, Sun and stars. They are literally our older brothers and sisters. Some of them have survival strategies we cant even imagine, but some of them survived multiple disasters and are still going strong in their development. Well, we cant see this as long as we think all is in our brain and our DNA. Truth is, there is nothing in our brain and nothing in our DNA.

Why do we have idiots on our planet ? Well, how about disaster and trauma ? All forms of trauma have one in common, they fixate a person in a certain situation/mind set. Which is powering ego enormously. Got hit by a horse on the leg and cant walk proper ? The blue spot on your leg is one form of a trauma. Suddenly you care about yourself. Walking is complicated and requires extra attention. The world slowly starts to rotate around you.

All disaster have one in common. Degeneration. Ever seen on TV what happens when a movie theater catches fire ? People kill each other to survive. There are studies what will happen to a city like Paris if a disaster is hitting earth. Lets just say so much: You dont want to live in a city if a disaster hits earth. You d love to live in a jungle with poisonous snakes and predators like panthers or sawtooth tigers ;)

I have no link/source available atm. But there are texts from people who still remember their cannibalism past. Some of them are just a few generations past that, have studied on western universities and are able to express the stories of their gandparents. There are interesting studies how cannibalism and prions create an almost never ending spiral downwards. BTW. some of them warn us, they see us moving to where they have been.

There is the whole story. High culture, downfall, high culture, downfall. Up, down, up, down. Trauma, ego... People dont learn, while the "stupid" cockroaches survive anything without any sign of degeneration. What has to be done to remove the trauma so the ego can release it fixated energy ?
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:16 am

tholden wrote:
Grey Cloud wrote:The guy doesn't know what he is talking about.


Seems obvious enough to me who who doesn't know what he's talking about here...

And could you provide some evidence for that remark?
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby tholden » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:58 am

Grey Cloud wrote:And could you provide some evidence for that remark?


You've done a better job at that than I could.
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:30 am

tholden wrote:
Grey Cloud wrote:And could you provide some evidence for that remark?


You've done a better job at that than I could.

How so? Because you are the guy in the vid?
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: The case for antediluvian telepathy

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:46 am

Theurgy constitutes a special type of Dialectical Interchange. In all forms of Perennialist Dialectic, prepared participants enter into shared mystical experiences in which they gain union with Higher Forces, discovering Transcendent Ideas and Forms.
Theurgy consists of ritualized, performatory 1 procedures bringing about the transmutation of the Soul and its temporary return to the Eternal World. The initiate, through performing these ceremonies 2, achieves ascent from the conditions of worldly existence and reunion with the Divine One.
We study theurgical dialectic to gain a practical understanding of its essence so we can put this knowledge into practice in our own work toward self-transformation and unity. Theurgy works toward sustasis, which means standing together, hence an interchange with the Divine. Iamblicus, one of the foremost Neo-Platonists who worked with theurgy, considered the outcome of theurgical dialectic to be henôsis, a creative partnership with the Divine, sharing in the Transcendent activity of maintaining and developing the cosmic order. Theurgical dialectic eventuates in illumination and temporary ascent of the soul into Higher Realms.

The Corruption of Theurgy
As with all terrestrial phenomena, theurgy has been corrupted by scholastics and imposters into an occult racket that the gullible are made to believe is the use of supernatural powers to influence or predict events and spirits. As such, theurgy becomes synonymous with conjuration, magic, sorcery, sortilege, thaumaturgy, witchcraft, and wizardry.
........
The counterfeit claims of the Roman Catholic Church--and other phony cults--make people dubious about the authenticity of any spiritual procedure. So it's doubly hard to conceive of there being genuine transcendent rites--because there are so many religious swindles that discourage belief.

Sorcery and magic originate in degenerate understanding on the part of self-corrupted practitioners, leading to counterfeit attempts to replicate authentic theurgical dialectic. These benighted persons become aware of the power and extra-normal results of theurgical dialectic, but are unable to meet intellectual and moral prerequisites and therefore are not allowed to participate in genuine theurgy.
All contemporary formal religions use rituals as sorcery: attempting to influence or coerce a pretended deity through concocted rites and ceremonies.
etc.
http://www.hermes-press.com/theurgy_index.htm
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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