Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

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Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:15 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHoyB81LnE

This is suggested in the spirit of "New Insights", and a smile. :lol:
Maybe humans aren't so special.
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby JoeTB » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:56 pm

starbiter wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LHoyB81LnE

This is suggested in the spirit of "New Insights", and a smile. :lol:
Maybe humans aren't so special.


I'm afraid they may have been tortured until they got it right
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:04 pm

I don't think this is coerced. I see thoughtfulness and joy.
On the other hand, i've been the victim of a confidence artist. So what do i know?
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby Plasmatic » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:19 pm

WOW :o :!: :!: That was so enriching and amazing to experience ! Im astounded.... Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention.
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby heretic5 » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:40 pm

One of the most amazing aspects is that the entire picture was clearly in the mind before the first line was put onto the paper.
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:40 pm

I truly hope they treat these beautiful animals well and generously. The surroundings and background suggest a market atmosphere for tourists. I'm assuming whoever is running this little enterprise is selling the artwork? You can see other animals in the background engaged in what looks to be the same activity. I really do hope that the training/conditioning is done gently and with respect for these magnficent creatures.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby lizzie » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:08 am

“I truly hope they treat these beautiful animals well and generously.”

I hope you are right; and times have changed. In the past humans would take a baby elephant and break its will (or spirit) to make it submissive. Years ago when I was in northern Thailand, I rode an elephant used to haul teak wood. The elephant had a large chain around his left front leg. His trainer “communicated” with him by jabbing him with a very large knife.

Elephants in Captivity
http://www.greatdreams.com/eeyore/elecruel.htm

Scientists unravel the secret world of elephant communication
http://www.physorg.com/news4211.html

"She and her colleagues are part of a scientific revolution that began nearly two decades ago with the stunning revelation that elephants communicate over long distances using low-pitched sounds that are barely audible to humans."

The Elephant's Secret Sense: The Hidden Life of the Wild Herds of Africa
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... andlies-20

Elephant Memories: Thirteen Years in the Life of an Elephant Family
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0226542 ... eader-link

The Emotional Lives of Animals
http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Lives-A ... im_b_img_2

Smile you're on ele-vision: How a camera attached to an elephant's trunk captured amazing jungle views
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... _id=543994
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby lizzie » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:39 am

When Elephants Weep
http://www.animalsvoice.com/PAGES/write ... n_ele.html

What are the implications of finding that animals lead emotional lives?

The basic idea seems to be that if something does not feel pain in the way a human being feels pain, it is permissible to hurt it. Even though this is not necessarily true, the illusion of differences is maintained out of fear that seeing similarity will create an obligation to accord respect and perhaps even equality. This appears to be the case especially when it comes to suffering, pain, sorrow, sadness. We do not want to cause these things in others because we know what it feels like to experience them ourselves.

Speaking of the connection between suffering and selfless love in animals, Darwin wrote: “In the agony of death, a dog has been known to caress his master, and every one has heard of the dog suffering under vivisection, who licked the hand of the operator; this man is close enough to hear the anguished cries of the animals.

When humans refuse to inflict pain on other humans, surely it is because they assume they feel. It is not because another person can think, nor because they can reason, nor even because they can speak that we respect their physical boundaries, but because they feel. They feel pain, humiliation, sorrow, and other emotions, perhaps even some we do not yet recognize. We do not want to cause suffering. If, as I believe, animals feel pain and sorrow and all the other emotions, these feelings cannot be ignored in our behavior toward them.

It may be hard to imagine the sensual universe of another species, but it is not impossible. Our dog’s intense sniffing suggests she is picking up and responding to something beyond our senses. Her ability to take in information hidden from us is impressive; the resulting sudden shifts of mood are honored.

It is clear that animals form lasting friendships, are frightened of being hunted, have a horror of dismemberment, wish they were back in the safety of their den, despair for their mates, look out for and protect their children whom they love.

Animals are, like us, endangered species on an endangered planet, and we are the ones who are endangering them, it, and ourselves.

http://www.jeffreymasson.com/animal-boo ... -weep.html

Meet Koko, a bashful gorilla proficient in sign language who loves to play house with dolls-but only when no one is looking - and Michael, another signing gorilla, who cannot be disturbed whenever Pavarotti sings on television. Then there's Moja, the joyful mongoose who waltzes with squirrels; Toto, the steadfast chimpanzee who literally nursed his malaria-stricken human observer back to health; and Alex, an African gray parrot with an astonishing vocabulary, who, when left at the veterinarian's office, shrieked, "Come here! I love you. I'm sorry. I want to go back."

Bird Brains
http://www.animals.org/books/index.htm

Birds have long been viewed as the archetypal featherbrains—beautiful but dumb. But according to naturalist Candace Savage, “bird brain,” as a pejorative expression, should be rendered obsolete by new research on the family of corvids: crows and their close relations.
The ancients who regarded these remarkable birds as oracles, bringers of wisdom, or agents of vengeance were on the right track, for corvids appear to have powers of abstraction, memory, and creativity that put them on a par with many mammals, even higher primates.
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby nick c » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:51 am

It is amazing!
Hopefully, these animals are being trained humanely, I have my doubts. Of course, animals have emotions and feelings.
I wouldn't say there is anything to indicate that this is a self portrait, other than a picture of an elephant drawn by an elephant what more can we say? about what is the elephants understanding or intent or how it came to develop this skill. We project our own conciousness onto animals all the time, we even project our conciousness onto inanimate objects and forces of nature. It certainly is a picture of an elephant, but self portrait? just can't tell.
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby JoeTB » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:38 pm

lizzie wrote:When Elephants Weep
http://www.animalsvoice.com/PAGES/write ... n_ele.html

What are the implications of finding that animals lead emotional lives?


To think otherwise is absurd.

Emotions are more primitive. Those are your instincts.

As for the elephant, it doesn't look like it's enjoying anything to me. It looks like it has been trained to paint something procedurally. The picture he paints is an elephant holding a big flower in his trunk for gods sake.

Do you think bears in the circus just feel like going for a nice afternoon bicycle ride?
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby heretic5 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:14 pm

Well, as to the topic of why they paint, that could be debated. As to the topic of why one painted an elphant picking a flower, that could be debated too. What seems to be beyond debate is that they are self-aware, as shown in this video about their reaction to seeing themselves in a stainless steel mirror
http://www.livescience.com/php/video/player.php?video_id=Elephant_Doppel
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby junglelord » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:42 am

Its well documented that elephants suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. That requires emotions.
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby bboyer » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:22 am

Not only emotions, but I'm pretty certain my dog dreams. All the dogs I have had as close companions dream. I can't prove it, haven't read anything about, but I have certainly observed them during their sleep, and I know when they are dreaming and when they are just in deep, sound and dreamless sleep. I see their paws twitch, and they make little "yip"-ing like noises and I swear, they're chasing rabbits and whatnot. :D
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby Heftruck » Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:42 am

Yup, same thing with cats.
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Re: Non Human Self Aware Intelligence Discovered on Earth

Unread postby junglelord » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:04 am

I also clearly remember a story of a circus elephant sold from germany to america...they thought they were sold a dumb elephant...turned out he only spoke german.
:lol:
Funny but totally true story.
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