Electric Empathy

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

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Electric Empathy

Unread postby Asgard » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:16 pm

if pain is just another form of bioenergy it would seem that it's presence would not be confined to it's point of origin.

Using an imaging technique called functional MRI, UK researchers found evidence that people who say they feel vicarious pain do, in fact, have heightened activity in pain-sensing brain regions upon witnessing another person being hurt.

The findings, published in the journal Pain, could have implications for understanding, and possibly treating, cases of unexplained "functional" pain.

"Patients with functional pain experience pain in the absence of an obvious disease or injury to explain their pain," explained Dr. Stuart W. G. Derbyshire of the University of Birmingham, one of the researchers on the new study.

"Consequently," he told Reuters Health in an email, "there is considerable effort to uncover other ways in which the pain might be generated."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BK35F20091221
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby moses » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:03 pm

Here is another one for kevin because it is a witness effect. Is it the same as dowsing ? How can one get brain electrical activity in a pain region, just by observing someone in pain ? It could be resonance, but then all people would experience this effect. It could be a psychological effect where the witnessing of someone in pain causes a past painful experience to rise to the surface. But then you would expect colouring of the experience to be reported, as the particulars of the past experience differentiate the pain.

So it appears this is a psychic effect. It could well be an ability of experiencing itself. That is instead of brain nerve impulses inducing pain, it could be pain producing the nerve impulses. So that instead of one's experiencing being induced by one's brain, one's experiencing is being induced by another's brain, and then this experiencing causes one's brain to produce the associated nerve impulses.

Thus this could be evidence of a non-physical effect.
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby junglelord » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:20 pm

As a Soft Tissue Therapist, Osteopathic minded Rolfer with lots of Chiropractic thrown in for good measure, can you do the exact opposite and take away pain by your intent?

Yes you can. Infact, without intent, its not worth beans.
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:38 pm

Using an imaging technique called functional MRI, UK researchers found evidence that people who say they feel vicarious pain do, in fact, have heightened activity in pain-sensing brain regions upon witnessing another person being hurt.


Subjects like these would be easy to find. Just ask any mother. (:
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:52 pm

To mind-read, or to imagine the world from someone else's different perspective, one has to switch from one's own primary representations (what one takes to be true of the world) to someone else's representation (what they take to be true of the world, even if this could be untrue). Arguably, empathy, dialogue and relationships are all impossible without such an ability to switch between our primary and our second order representations.


But sometimes this module can fail to develop in the normal way. A child might be delayed in developing this special piece of hardware: meta-representation. The consequence would be that they find it hard to mind-read others. This appears to be the case in children with Ausperger Syndrome. They have degrees of difficulty with mind-reading. Or they may never develop meta-representation, such that they are effectively 'mind blind.'" --Simon Baron-Cohen


The absense of this ability to "feel" the pain of others might be another area of study for these UK researchers.
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:15 pm

I did not mean to rule out resonance. Please proceed. (:
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby moses » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:25 pm

If someone yawns it can lead to others yawning. Does the mind work away in the background leading to the decision that 'I am tired' and somehow this produces the bodily physical conditions to produce yawning. This is like hypnotic suggestion. And so we would generate our own pain when seeing another in pain. Clearly a very significant conclusion when considering diseases like fibromyalgia.

And direct resonance would be a physical effect too. If the feeling arises non-physically and not as a result of a response to brain nerve impulses, then the physical effects ( nerve impulses ) arise from the non-physical feeling. So do we get the feeling immediately as a feeling to feeling transfer, or does our brain alter after what is like a hypnotic suggestion, and the nerve impulses generated induce the feeling ?
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:49 pm

So we are looking for "a cause of electrical activity in a pain region." (moses)

Apparently they used an MRI to track increased blood flow, which would indicate increased activity because energy is being consumed. I noticed that more than 2/3s of the participants certainly had an emotional response, and the 1/3 had activity in their pain centers. Without reading the whole paper, it appears (achtung: hobbyist analysis ahead) there is an assumption about "regions" of the brain, which may or may not be true. First, the idea that there is an "emotional region of the brain" might have a lot of controversy attached to it. Nueroscientists don't agree on this. The limbic system has gotten a lot of scrutiny but it is hard to say where it begins and where it ends. So where is emotion in the brain? Some do say everywhere.

Likewise saying that there is a pain region in the brain could need more research.

But assuming they got it right, emotional response is more common, with 2/3s exhibiting it. This shows first that pain gets people's attention, and next, it holds it for a time. For 1/3 of the subjects, some pathways in the brain have been developed to intensify the experience, and probably get some bodily feedback. Not so unusual, since emotions can also originate in the body. It is probably a case of the maxim, "Neurons that fire together, wire together."

Now turning to the 1/3 of the subjects who did not respond with any emotion, it is possible that the neural pathways were not developed normally during their youth. I recently saw a study in which no emotion was exhibited in children when their parents came back in the room after a separation, but their pulse and muscle tension did change. So is the emotion always there, just avoided and not conscious with some individuals?

So I am no fun. I do not think there is any outside energy coming in to the pain region. It's just a difference in individual wiring. Still a wonderful and powerful thing, to feel what others feel. What would it be like reading fiction or history or talking with a close friend, without it?
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:07 pm

Let's say I'm wrong. Or let's say there was another test, with different variables isolated, I don't know what.

How would resonance apply to this situation? Is it like an acoustic resonance, where there is a sympathetic vibration between like piano strings? Or like a radio set that picks up a signal? This would probably not occur by just viewing pictures, as they did in this test.

My sense is that far more nonverbal communication goes on between people than we realize, and it involves powers of the mind that are important to develop, but that it only seems paranormal.
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby moses » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:06 pm

My sense is that far more nonverbal communication goes on between people than we realize, and it involves powers of the mind that are important to develop, but that it only seems paranormal. Brigit

I feel that a person's traumatic past is sensed by others. So that relationship is very much influenced by this. If a person in some way resonates with some person involved in another's traumatic past, then a neurotic relationship is likely. Thus a violent experience with a male would produce a state in a girl that could lead to a neurotic relationship with a violent male. It is the energy of the traumatic event that produces a push to recreate that event.

Now one can develop states of the mind that produce resonance with some desirable outcome, but it is the mind that is free of all such states that can produce action arising from our natural inner energies. These inner energies are a part of consciousness, or experiencing. It is this previous sentence that is completely rejected by physical only, no god, science. So this is the real issue.
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Re: Electric Empathy

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:04 am

My self and other Rolfers have had the experience of having a vision of the patients injury, yet never told to us by the patient, while working on the fascia, in the area of the un-disclosed injury. I have had this happen four times in 15 years. A real psychic vision. Very cool experience. Wish I could pick up an object and do that like a "see'er"
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord
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