symbolism, modern and past psychology

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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:18 pm

I've just had a quick look at the Jewish propaganda film and had a read of what the Sirbacon site says about the play. The guy at the Sirbacon site has a really whacky idea, he says it is an allegory. Apparently, the name 'Aaron' means illumined. I wonder what that can be about then.

Oh what tangled webs we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

An allegory, I say, so that explains why Shakespeare sometimes comes across as an satire. Illumined ?, so perhaps the Moor was just carrying a candle for a romantic dinner with Tamora? ;)
Gruesome tail, by the way, poor Lavinia, she should have stayed with Aeneas perhaps.
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby mague » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:21 pm

Grey Cloud wrote:Incidentally, there was only one review of Atwill's book on amazon.co.uk which supports my assertion that this type of book has little appeal in the UK. Perhaps Stefan and/or Mague could provide a Dutch or German perspective.


Hello,

well Grey Cloud... what do you expect ? The german socienty/culture is based on christianity and the current pope is german :P

Atwill is not the first. Actually there are different theories that something is wrong with the Jesus story we know. Others have pointed out that Jesus and Horus share a lot of features. Both are born 24/25 december for example.

One of the better theories is how ancient egypt went into the underground and migrated from egypt to Rome, then Europe/England and has currently his headquarters in the US. I think there is a reason why freemasons use egypt symbolism (<-- back to topic ;))
The Arrivals is a very interessting story. Many episodes are censored/lack sound. But its possible to view most of the 51 episodes if you try. I wouldnt say it is telling THE truth, but holds many inspirations.

A much less known theory is, that they migrate over the centuries, because earth has chackras just as everything has chackras. Mother earths Kundalini is raising form Asia towards middle east, then the US and then South America. Ever wondered how the japanese knowed that they are the land of the rising sun ? They knew this before globalization, even before people started to travel huge distances with sailing ships. Their flag is much older then this :)

However, i think there have been secret services since Cheops or even longer. We have to guess that our whole history was spoiled to some degree for the sake of might and rulership. The politics of disinformation are here since the dawn of the rulership system. I think it was Echnaton who rejected the "gods" and intoduced the monotheism. Guess what that ment to the old priests. There is a 99% chance that they tried the one or other conspiracy. Everything in history could be truth or lie. Who knows ? It is moot to discuss the validity of certain sources. Be it the Bible or Atwell or Einstein.

Our cultures are based on ideas. Some ideas change like the idea what a beautiful woman is. But overall the ideas are the same through the millenias. The main theme still is the pyramid. Our society worldwide is a pyramid and in that regard the pyramid still is ruling our world. We have leaders on the top, we have nations on the top, just as scientists refer to smarter people above them to proove their points. Einstein said... Birkeland said... all pyramidal thinking. The pharao still rules. We just dont know exactly if he is alive or a mummy. Nevertheless he is still ruling the planet :) as if the pyramid was the 1st thought, the seed of the tree of human culture...

We cant know what is true or false anymore. Maybe some initiated higher ups know. I doubt it though, i really do. What we need is to discover the symbolisms again. I have learned on my travels though life and the planet that the nature based societies have a better understanding, because a lot of their culture is based on the observation of their environment/nature. They dont have a pyramid in their skull. Quite a few tribes reject the idea that they are the result of an evolution form ape to human. Evolution is pyramidal btw. :P Nature isnt pyramidal. Sometimes it is, but its not a common rule. I have never met a "god" that wanted me to worship him. They usually only wanted me to respect them for what they are. That includes the sun too. Ra doesnt want me to worship him, just to respect his position in the universe. And the sun is respecting me for what i am in the universe. Its much more about brother/sisterhoods. One brother is a better dancer, the other a better singer and the next a better farmer while the sister knows more about another topic. Their parents are on top of a pyramid, but the pyramid is only descibing a relation. The axis of a wheel is the top of a pyramid, but not more or less then the wheel itself. Of course, if you want to be the avatar of Ra, the high piest of the sun, the guy with a higher social status in society, the you dont want people to talk to the sun directly. Only through you :P However, even this sillyness is based on fear. Materialism and social status is absed on fear.

Pyramidal thinking is again based on the four corners. Each corner is sending a "holographic" beam towards a focus point and there creates your reality. Each force has its "anti" force. Its propulsion vs. gravity. In our mind the four archetypes of fear are the anti forces. This is true and understood by modern mind science as well. However, there is nothing out there to force you into this form. As yoga teaches us, you can form your mind however you want. The pyramidal thinking is only one of many mind patterns. A Therahedon has only three fears and it easier to deal with for example :P People who are able to communicate with plants and trees tell us that there are a lot more forms. And buddhism for example teaches the single dot. A very easy form and extremely effective ;) The point i want to make is, that life is motion. If people are stuck in one form for to long they start to "degenerate". Thats why i think the initiated higher ups have no clue anymore, thats why our global society is so f*cked up and why we need to explore the many other possible forms.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:02 am

A little bit of synchronicity. My Bibliophile catalogue arrived today and contained the following:
The Jesus Mystery by Lena Einhorn.
In The Jesus Mystery, award-winning author and filmmaker Lena Einhorn presents an astonishing new hypothesis about the relationship between Jesus and the apostle Paul. With page-turning suspense, she details a new first-century chronology that resolves many persistent mysteries about the historical Jesus and makes her conclusion impossible to ignore.
...
In the process of writing this book, Einhorn came to realize that a number of incidents or people mentioned in the New Testament very closely resemble incidents or people recorded in the works of Flavius Josephus (Jewish Antiquities and The Jewish War) - but fifteen to twenty years later. The New Testament started to look like a roman-a-clef, where real historical events from the 50s CE seems to have been transferred to the 30s.

And then there is her most astonishing hypothesis, involving the true identities of Jesus and Paul.
http://www.bookbargains.com.au/product/show/2230
As far as I can make out the book was written in 2007 which is after Caesar's Messiah, so Atwill might want to set his lawyers on her.
On a personal note, any book synopsis which contains words and phrases such as 'astonishing' and page-turning suspsense' etc, makes it one to avoid.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby bdw000 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:13 am

Grey Cloud:

Many thanks for that long post, it is much appreciated. It will take me a while to digest it all.

While you have brought up many good points, still, Atwill's core data was not addressed. It is that data that I find so interesting. I will admit that one of Atwill's main flaws (as I see it) is that he does spend way too much time guessing at motives, instead of just dealing with his data.

As for me "wanting you to convince me," that was just a figure of speech. No one will obviously convince me of anything. I decide for myself (as best I can). The point is that, in my opinion, any idea can look good if it never has to defend itself against critics ("one side of an argument is always convincing" :) ). For "spectator" readers such as myself (non-experts), it is always a good idea to get "a second opinion." I need that second opinion from people like you before I can even begin to seriously evaluate Atwill's thesis.

Even if everything you have said turns out to be correct, it is my opinion that Atwill has still found something. What exactly that something means, who knows. My guess is that it is at least as significant as "Q," but that is just a guess. It could have nothing at all to do with the Flavians. Maybe they are involved, but in some peripheral way. But there are so many threads that appear to be tied together, I have to suspect that there is a spider somewhere spinning those threads.

Thanks again.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:57 am

Hi bdw000,
You wrote:
It could have nothing at all to do with the Flavians. Maybe they are involved, but in some peripheral way. But there are so many threads that appear to be tied together, I have to suspect that there is a spider somewhere spinning those threads.
Here we agree. I would guess that the 'spider' would be an initiate of one of the Mystery schools. (I view Christianity as being the variation on the Perennial Philosophy that was custom-built for the Age of Pisces ;) )
P.S. I didn't understand the reference to 'Q'.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby mague » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:28 pm

bdw000 wrote:
While you have brought up many good points, still, Atwill's core data was not addressed. It is that data that I find so interesting. I will admit that one of Atwill's main flaws (as I see it) is that he does spend way too much time guessing at motives, instead of just dealing with his data.


Hello bdw000,

maybe because its a waste of time ?

Let me replace thr many Jesus theories with a dead deer. You walk the forrest and find a dead deer. Its partly rotten with flys and maggots on it. All you do is taking the parts you still can use and leave the rest and then move on. Case "Dead Deer" closed. Sitting for days and weeks at the corpse and thinking about how it probably was when it was alive is paralyzing or almost braindead. Its acting like a fish playing with this worm on a fishing rod...
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:11 am

Hi Mague,
Thanks for an interesting post.

I have had a look at the intro to The Arrivals and will check out the rest later. Looks 'interesting'. (It can also be viewed here:
http://www.wakeupproject.com/VList.asp?Series=1

Re the Earth chakras: do you know which chakra corresponds to which human chakra?

I understand where you are coming from with regard to the conspiracy part of your post and sympathise to a certain extent. However, I don't particularly concern myself with them as I see them as merely manifestations of, or epiphenomena of the descending half of cyclical
time. Such people, whether they are priests, military hardmen or international financiers are no more in charge of their own destiny than the lumpen proletariat. No matter how 'evil' a person is here on Earth, there are still two-thirds of him or her which are not here on Earth (I'm using the Greek model as per usual). Good and evil are human value judgements - the Universe does not judge.
As Shakespeare/Bacon said:
All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
Bacon is actually talking about an individual lifetime here but it works for me at the level of the humanity as a whole.
The Universe is the stage and the 'gods' are the stagehands etc. They provide the basic infrastructure for the four acts (Ages/cycles).
Within each act, the players, who originally understood the script, are allowed to do anything they want within certain broad parameters (determined by which act or Age). As the drama moves through the acts, the players forget more and more of the script. Those behind the scenes never do. The way I see it is that we are currently coming to the end of Act IV and will shortly begin the sequel (the ascending cycle). Put in terms of Greek (Parmenides) philosophy: The Many are at their maximum number and at their maximum distance or remove from the One.
Or as Joni Mitchell put it:
And the seasons they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return we can only look behind
From where we came
And go round and round and round
In the circle game.
[Chorus from The Circle Game]

Even Akehnaten's introduction of monotheism was part of the script. All religions, ancient or otherwise are montheistic in any case.

You wrote:
Some ideas change like the idea what a beautiful woman is.
Not with Stefan. :)

Again, I undestand and sympathise somewhat with your pyramid metaphor but I prefer the Greek family tree metaphor. The familial relationships are one of the keys to understanding Greek mythology (and metaphysics). (I'm still working on twins, nuances there that I don't quite get yet).

You wrote:
We cant know what is true or false anymore. Maybe some initiated higher ups know. I doubt it though, i really do. What we need is to discover the symbolisms again.
I don't claim to be an initiated higher up or anything close but I have the 'ability' to KNOW, to a certain extent, what is true and what is false. When I am in a state of contemplation or meditation I 'see' whatever it is I am contemplating upon. I 'see' what parts are true and
what parts are false (and also why this is so). I 'see' the connections to other things or areas, whether vertical or horizontal. I get this from what I call Athene. Sometimes I don't understand what I am 'seeing' which frequently leads, a few days later, to a 'coincidental'
encounter with a piece of writing which allows the penny to drop.
Sometimes I don't believe what I am 'seeing' which can also lead to a 'coincidental' confirmation some time later. Much of what I 'see' I cannot recall once I return to the regular state of consciousness. This no longer bothers me as I take it as a given that if I need to know it, it will pop up as and when required.
When I read words, whether in a book or on screen, I have a related 'ability' which allows me to go beyond the words. This is one of the reasons I 'know' that books such as Atwill's or Cardona's are of little value. They are essentially 2 dimensional. They have length but no
depth. Within a paragraph or two my eyes have gone right through the words to find nothing. At the other extreme, with books such as the Iliad or Nonnus' Dionsysiaca my 'vision' fails before I have hit bottom. It is like looking into a lake where one can see down below the
surface to a certain extent but you know that there is further depth even though you cannot see it. I'm still getting little insights into the Iliad, months after reading it. I was going to post something about the Nonnus work in the Ancient Texts thread but I'm still waiting for
the dust to settle weeks after finishing the book.
As for symbolism, an insight which came to me out of the blue a week or two ago is that Greek myths (and presumably all myths) were written/formulated to be accessed by an altered state of consciousness.
They are not designed for the awake state (beta waves) but more for the relaxed and drowsy (alpha / theta) state.
http://www.web-us.com/brainwavesfunction.htm
When in this state the myth tales reveal, via the symbolism, their own internal logic. (just as dreams are logical, or 'normal' when you are in them but seem weird and whacky when you recall them when you are awake. I had this particular insight shortly before reading Nonnus.
Reading Nonnus proved the insight to be be correct to the extent that I was stood behind and to the right of Typhon while he was doing his thing. Planetary catastrophe? Seen it, mate. :shock: It also proved another one of my 'pet theories' about Typhon in particular and the family tree metaphor in general, to be correct.

You wrote:
One brother is a better dancer, the other a better singer and the next a better farmer while the sister knows more about another topic. Their parents are on top of a pyramid, but the pyramid is only descibing a relation.
What you are describig here is essentially the Greek definition of 'aristocracy' - rule by the best - as described by Plato in the Republic, a.k.a. the Commonwealth. His ideal society had Philosopher-kings at the top. Where the Philosopher-kings were illumined individuals rather than some pillock with a Ph.D in epistemology or somesuch. The various castes or strata were not hereditary, the individual was a member of whichever suited his ability or ambition. The individual's family background didn't come into it.
The original pharaohs were, at least to my way of thinking, just such Philosopher-kings. The various Greek kings in the Iliad are no longer such but they still try to achieve that level.

You wrote:
Thats why i think the initiated higher ups have no clue anymore, thats why our global society is so f*cked up and why we need to explore the many other possible forms.
The initiated always have a clue. Kali yuga was a hands-off yuga - minimal control or oversight. The possiblility of exploring other forms will grow as the ascending cycle gathers pace. Trust me, I know. People laugh at Bishop Berkeley's 'this is the best of all possible worlds'.

57. Refutation of Bishop Berkeley
After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it -- "I refute it thus."
Boswell: Life
http://www.samueljohnson.com/refutati.html
I used to laugh at it Berkeley but not now.

And now, I think I will have a watch of the Arrivals - I could do with a no-brainer.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:13 am

~
Grey Cloud wrote:

“I'm still working on twins, nuances there …”


Just for some light comparisons:

Sumerian twins Utu and Innana were respectively Sun & Love/War.
Fire in celestial and anthropocosmic manifestations.

The next famous twin deities- Egyptian Shu and Tefnut – Warmth & Humidity; [coming between Nut and Geb- Heavan & Earth].
Perhaps variations on a theme.

A quick and dirty comparison of 8 twins in world myths is here:
http://www.sfu.ca/archaeology/museum/ndi/twinmyths.html

“It also proved another one of my 'pet theories' about Typhon in particular and the family tree metaphor in general, to be correct.”


Bait taken. Go ahead and reel out some line.

;)
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby StefanR » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:43 am

GreyCloud wrote:You wrote:

Some ideas change like the idea what a beautiful woman is.


Not with Stefan. :)

:twisted: *contemplating the perception of evil* :twisted:
Define "a beautiful women" ! :evil:
;)

I must confess, I sometimes have difficulty separating the image from the idea of beauty
But some beauty is timeless
Mague wrote:Let me replace the many Jesus theories with a dead deer.

This sentence in itself , somehow brings up something Monty Python-esque :lol:

Mague wrote:You walk the forrest and find a dead deer. Its partly rotten with flys and maggots on it. All you do is taking the parts you still can use and leave the rest and then move on. Case "Dead Deer" closed. Sitting for days and weeks at the corpse and thinking about how it probably was when it was alive is paralyzing or almost braindead. Its acting like a fish playing with this worm on a fishing rod...

I learned fishing when I was young and after many years of baiting and hooking many fish, it dawned on me what the virtue of fishing was , and since then I only fished without the bait ;)
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:37 pm

Hi Seasmith,
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out late after the footie.
You wrote:

“It also proved another one of my 'pet theories' about Typhon in particular and the family tree metaphor in general, to be correct.”


Bait taken. Go ahead and reel out some line.
Check out Typhon's birth certificate. Mother - Gaia. Father - none. :shock:

Here's my favourite fishing story for you and Stefan:
Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling along the dam of the Hao Waterfall when Zhuangzi said, "See how the minnows come out and dart around where they please! That's what fish really enjoy!"
Huizi said, "You're not a fish — how do you know what fish enjoy?"
Zhuangzi said, "You're not I, so how do you know I don't know what fish enjoy?"
Huizi said, "I'm not you, so I certainly don't know what you know. On the other hand, you're certainly not a fish — so that still proves you don't know what fish enjoy!"
Zhuangzi said, "Let's go back to your original question, please. You asked me how I know what fish enjoy — so you already knew I knew it when you asked the question. I know it by standing here beside the Hao." (17, tr. Watson 1968:188-9)

Pick the bones out of that. ;)
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Location: NW UK

Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:39 pm

Hi Stefan,
You wrote:
I must confess, I sometimes have difficulty separating the image from the idea of beauty.
But some beauty is timeless.
Not if your hard drive dies and takes your jpgs with it. ;)
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby bdw000 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:49 pm

mague wrote:Hello bdw000,
maybe because its a waste of time ?


mague:

You are absolutely correct: study of the NT is strictly for entertainment purposes. I made a bad call and thought someone in this thread might also find Atwill entertaining. There is simply no real use for any of it. A biblical scholar has recently devoted an entire book to saying just that, how much a waste of time it is (good book!).

Although, if you consider that ALL religion probably is nothing more or less than the deliberate manipulation of large numbers of humans, it might have a bit of practicality about it (just to know some of the details).

Why are horror movies so popular? The more dangerous something is, the more entertaining it can be. People don't go to a circus to see dogs and cats jump through flaming loops. They want to see lions and tigers and elephants, all creatures that can easily kill humans.
Last edited by bdw000 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby bdw000 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:04 pm

Grey Cloud wrote:P.S. I didn't understand the reference to 'Q'.


"Q" is a major part of what is called "the synoptic problem" in NT studies. Since Luke and Matthew have many verses that are very similar, it is postulated that they both copied from some other source that does not survive, called "Q" (from some German word that means "source"). This is the consensus view today, with a few serious dissenters.

Since the original book (Q) does not survive, there is no way to "prove" this theory, but it is a very neat solution to the puzzle.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby mague » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:54 am

Grey Cloud wrote:Re the Earth chakras: do you know which chakra corresponds to which human chakra?


Earth isnt human, so there is no real correspondance. Just like insects are different. Personally i d say the flow is entering at the south pole, moving towards far east, then moving a bit like a zig-zag pattern towards far west and then to the north pole where it is leaving. In human form it would be like cutting of legs and head, then turn the body by 90 degree and put the legs below the body and the head above it.

Grey Cloud wrote:I understand where you are coming from with regard to the conspiracy part of your post and sympathise to a certain extent. However, I don't particularly concern myself with them as I see them as merely manifestations of, or epiphenomena of the descending half of cyclical time.

We are not much different here. I do not belief into conspiracy. I think its about missguided people who missunderstand what happens around them. Evil isnt a force but rather a psychological phenomenon. The Jesus story holds an interessting hint. Jesus went into the desert and fighted the devil for 40 days and won. He got rid of the evil. All his pain and suffering didnt come form the source of evil. It came form heavily psychologic disturbed people. Or even easier, from weak people.
Pontius Pilatus was only about his cereer withing the roman empire. Empire itself is a very questionable institution. Empires are always about expanison to gain materialistic values. The whole roman empire was only about this.
The priests wanted Jesus dead for the sake of egoism and money. Jesus biggest "mistake" was to be against religious taxes and his story isnt about occultismn and god. It was about money. The roman empire expanded to gain taxes and the priests took taxes as well. Back then this was one of the highest tax burdens in history. Only beaten by todays taxes and slavery btw. ;)

Another earlier story is Moses. Isnt the whole stroy about "idiots" ? And two world religions based on idiots ? Idiocy doesnt equal conspiracy, they are similar though ;)

For a intelligent and sane person there was no conspiracy. In psychologic terms we only see people who stopped to evolve. Modern psychologic is aware of this. Under certain circumstances children stop to evolve and remain in that snapshot situation for the rest of their live. This is not default, people are able to evolve mentally past puberty till their last breath. Actually our western culturue wants our children to stop being children and "grow up". True is that our mind/intellect is not able to understand the concept of time and can only learn this from the body. We never grow up, we never (should) stop playing.

Grey Cloud wrote:Good and evil are human value judgements - the Universe does not judge.

It does. You are either with it or not. Altering creation like in magic, which we call science today, are very questionable topics. Always have been.


Grey Cloud wrote:Again, I undestand and sympathise somewhat with your pyramid metaphor but I prefer the Greek family tree metaphor. The familial relationships are one of the keys to understanding Greek mythology (and metaphysics). (I'm still working on twins, nuances there that I don't quite get yet).


Greek is a difficult example. Ancient greek was partly a true high culture and rather an exeption. But thats not my point. Think again.

Imagine a planet without humans. Then human "culture" slowly approaches. This is the beginning of a virtiual space, a collective consciousness. Whatever you insert into it will have an effect and will remain. Unfortunately only few are aware of this. In terms of conspiracy it is about ruling this space. A pharao never was more then a mere human, but in this virtual space he is a ruler on the top. From the view of a bird everyone who is thinking this is reality has a split personality. For a bird this is like mad children playing in a sandbox while missing the true reality. Again "idiots".
However, our whole western (and a lot of the global) culture is about lifestyle. It tries to tell us what is cool, beautiful, desireable, what is real. For the rest of the universe it is not real, just a artifical consciousness bubble within endless space. The satanic self-sufficient system to survive without the rest of the universe. The seperation is the source of all human suffering. But again its no real conspiracy. Its not about an anti-god, its about a devil who needs a doktor,because hist problem is a psycholigic one. Reminds me of a child who denies to breathe because it wants ice cream :D


Grey Cloud wrote:
One brother is a better dancer, the other a better singer and the next a better farmer while the sister knows more about another topic. Their parents are on top of a pyramid, but the pyramid is only descibing a relation.
What you are describig here is essentially the Greek definition of 'aristocracy' - rule by the best - as described by Plato in the Republic, a.k.a. the Commonwealth.


When i left the human virtual reality (see above) i recognized that there is a bigger and smarter system. Nature moves its inhabitants where she needs them. Everyone has got its special gift. I mean everyone, that includes plants and animals. The greek neglect this a bit. Humans are always busy with themselfs and suffer from group dynamics. Its not only us vs. them withing humankind, but also us vs. them outside. Us (humans) need space, so we cut them (trees) down. If we ocercome this we will find that flora and fauna offers exceptional teachers in all disciplines. I had big problems with my back. The healers involved where a woman, a bird and a pack of deer.

Once a perosn is aware of a much bigger mastermind, and i am not necesarrily talking about god, rather nature, once we are aware of this all politics vanish. No need for a parlament or a king or any other form of legislation. It is like in science. Test > theory ;)

Grey Cloud wrote:
Thats why i think the initiated higher ups have no clue anymore, thats why our global society is so f*cked up and why we need to explore the many other possible forms.
The initiated always have a clue. Kali yuga was a hands-off yuga - minimal control or oversight.


I was refering to the initiates of the current ruling class. 800 years ago a grandmaster of the freemasons probably had a clue. Today i think he wasted his life for a useless career. The virtual reality bubble called human culture is going to implode. It implodes because the ruling class has not clue at all anymore.

Yesterday Mr. Obama initiated the move towards south america ;) He is opposing the drug mafia, the ruling force south of the US. I am not talking about good or evil of drugs and their barons ;) Just hinting that the Kundalini is slowly leaving the US and moving towards south america. Hurry guys, or you wont make it till 2012 :D
Once the Kundalini reached the head it will leave earths system and culture will implode.
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Re: symbolism, modern and past psychology

Unread postby StefanR » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:09 pm

Grey Cloud wrote:Hi Stefan,
You wrote:
I must confess, I sometimes have difficulty separating the image from the idea of beauty.
But some beauty is timeless.
Not if your hard drive dies and takes your jpgs with it. ;)


I'm sorry to hear that, I hope you were able to recollect ;)

Image (eidolon): Proclus recognizes three types of image (1) the mathematical likeness, or Form, of intelligible Reality, (2) the visible manifestation of that Form, and (3) the representation of the visible image in a painting, sculpture, mirror, etc
GreyCloud hypothesizes a fourth type (4) a jpg on a harddrive :idea:

FAMOUS LAST WORDS
Image
Apollo : There is no progress in comfort
Marsyas : You did sterilize that, did you?
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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