Squating man tatoo

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:00 am

For any hominid to have evolved into humans, that hominid would have to have:
 Lost his fur while ice ages were going on.
 Lost almost all of his night vision while living in the perpetual twilight of the “Purple Dawn” age and while surrounded by predators which could see very nicely in the dark.
 Lost almost all of his sense of smell while trying to survive as a land prey animal.
We have had this drivel before. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16473#p115450

You can't expect anybody to believe that Cro Magnon man with his grand art and his advanced tools and weapons arose in very little time from something like that, PARTICULARLY when there is a vastly better explanation to hand as per the Ganymede Hypothesis.
1. What 'grand art'? 2. What 'advanced tools'? 3. How do you know it was 'very little time'? 4. How is coming form another planet a 'vastly better explanation'?

That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on, i.e. the claim is ridiculous.
Why does it have to be 1. a Neanderthal male? and 2. Why does it have to be rape? 3. What is so ridiculous about rape when it is still a common occurance in modern so-called 'civilisations'? 4. Your Ganymede nonsense is what is ridiculous.

In real life:
 Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner left her alone for ten minutes.
 The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
 Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
 And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be exceedingly obvious.
You know all this about Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon society do you? Have you any evidence of the 'commie' attempts to breed super workers?

Why do you keep posting images of hairy hominids humanoid creatures?
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
 
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby webolife » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:14 am

I am mostly in agreement with Grey Cloud's objections above.
However, I make no claims for human evolution from hominids whatsoever. I see the distinctions between various ancient humans as racial [subspecial], or part and parcel of the variations found within the human genome. Evolutionists are fond of trying to blur the distinctions between men and chimps, and make their claims and artistic renderings in favor of this predilection. Paleontology does not provide sufficient biological or sociological information to support any evolutionary claims. Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, and other "normal" human typologies exist in historical and current populations of humanity. The accounts of what a Neanderthal woman or man would do, or how saltation of humans from another planet is superior to their origination on earth are simply fantastic and unsupported by any facts or reason. The yeti, sasquatch, or basajaun myths are not evidence of anything except imagination.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
User avatar
webolife
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby tholden » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:02 pm

webolife wrote:I am mostly in agreement with Grey Cloud's objections above.


Can´t help you with that one, I have Grey Clouod on ignore for what I view as sufficient reason.



However, I make no claims for human evolution from hominids whatsoever. I see the distinctions between various ancient humans as racial [subspecial], or part and parcel of the variations found within the human genome. Evolutionists are fond of trying to blur the distinctions between men and chimps, and make their claims and artistic renderings in favor of this predilection. Paleontology does not provide sufficient biological or sociological information to support any evolutionary claims. Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, and other "normal" human typologies exist in historical and current populations of humanity.
.


Neanderthal DNA is roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee. His footprints are ape-like (big toes goes out from the foot and foot shorter and wider); his rib-cage is apelike (conical, ours are cylindrical); eyes and nasal area very much larger than ours and very much higher on the face; furry (no Neanderthal needles ever found because furry creatures do not require clothing); brain dominated by the area of the brain involved in vision...

Everything we actually know about the Neanderthal says advanced ape and not primitive human. The difference between us and the Neanderthal is a species difference and not a subspecies difference.

Cro Magnon man on the other hand was fully modern and is presumably ancestral to humans groups not descended from Adam and Noah i.e. to groups including Basque, native Canary Islanders, native Australian, San etc. etc.
tholden
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby webolife » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:51 am

I simply disagree with pretty much everything you said there.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
User avatar
webolife
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby tholden » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:29 pm

ditto...
tholden
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby tholden » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:32 pm

Danny Vendramini on the nature of the Neanderthal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbmywzGAVs&t=5s

I have no use for DV´s claim of predation BY Neanderthals driving more gracile hominids into a fast process of evolution into CroMagnon man; nonetheless I view his Neanderthal reconstructions as totally accurate with one or two very minor caveats including fur color and the question of slit eye pupils.
tholden
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby webolife » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:42 pm

tholden wrote:Danny Vendramini on the nature of the Neanderthal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbmywzGAVs&t=5s

I have no use for DV´s claim of predation BY Neanderthals driving more gracile hominids into a fast process of evolution into CroMagnon man; nonetheless I view his Neanderthal reconstructions as totally accurate with one or two very minor caveats including fur color and the question of slit eye pupils.
-- highlight mine

On what basis?
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
User avatar
webolife
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby tholden » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:00 am

webolife wrote:
tholden wrote:Danny Vendramini on the nature of the Neanderthal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbmywzGAVs&t=5s

I have no use for DV´s claim of predation BY Neanderthals driving more gracile hominids into a fast process of evolution into CroMagnon man; nonetheless I view his Neanderthal reconstructions as totally accurate with one or two very minor caveats including fur color and the question of slit eye pupils.
-- highlight mine

On what basis?


You just claimed you disagree with eveything I ever write... Why would you care??
tholden
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby webolife » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:25 pm

Ted, I do find myself disagreeing with most of what you write, from your advocacy of the Ganymede concept, to your artifacts on Mars and other astronomical bodies, to your claims about ancestral human populations. But I generally find that I learn more from people who see things differently than those who agree with me, if we persist in ferreting out the facts from the assumptions. I'm pretty relentless about this. But you have given no factual basis for your unfounded statements about the Neanderthals. How is it even possible to surmise anything about hair color and pupil shape from the limited skeletal remains we know, let alone social behavior and intelligence? You are aware that some Neanderthal crania demonstrate a larger brain capacity than typical "moderns", right? If they had a better capacity for vision, or a rib cage that enabled a larger lung capacity, does that really qualify them as a distinct species? By the way, some reconstructions of the relatively small sampling of Neanderthal rib fragments are more conical, some more barrel-shaped, so depending on which reconstruction you favor, you will reach a different conclusion. That's why statements about the Neanderthals must be squared with the factual evidence, rather than spouted off as factual givens. Are the Burmese and Indonesian pygmies, and African Watusi not human? Yet the variations in their body typologies should certainly qualify them as distinct races, don't you think? Or is there just one human race, and differences among us can be appreciated for that? Now, I think I understand why you hold to the no-pre-Adamic human premise, as do I... but your belief in the non-humanness of Neanderthals [and you've said conflicting things about Cro-Magnons, so I'm unsure of your stand there] is not based in solid facts, so I'm challenging you on it. I've discussed this at no short length with OEC advocates, and heartily disagree with their premise of a small-scale middle east deluge rather than the global cataclysm of Genesis 6-9 plainly read. This "local flood" concession has profound effect on how the previous chapters of Genesis must be interpreted, in particular a dramatic effect on the nature of Adam, a concession that I simply feel is unconscionable, and poor hermeneutics. I'm just asking you to defend yourself, rather than parroting the same baseless claims about our Neanderthal cousins, especially in the light of the increasing body of evidence that we were and are genetically intermingled.

This is probably a derailment of the thread topic, so if the administrators want to start a new thread or combine this debate with another thread on the Neanderthals, I would understand.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
User avatar
webolife
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby tholden » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:11 pm

Danny Vendramini assumes that Neanderthals had house-cat-like (slit) eye pupils as a way of functioning in both dark and bright conditions. Troy McLachlan and I assume that the Neanderthal, living in the darkish conditions of the "Purple Dawn", never saw what we call daylight i.e. he was totally adapted for dark conditions and did not require the slit pupils.

Likewise the Neanderthal brain was dominated by the area of the brain associated with vision and motion and that, combined with the huge eyes, says that the Neanderthal brain, somewhat larger than ours, was to some large extent the neurological equivalent of the circuitry for a military night vision system.

The conical rib cage, same as that of the great apes, shows in skeletal reconstructions and those same reconstructions show hips set much further apart than ours, legs probably much thicker...

Image

DNA analysis more than anything else makes them a distinct species, Neanderthal DNA being described as roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee...

http://expressindia.indianexpress.com/f ... 55423.html

The work was difficult, Paabo admits, particularly as the techniques used were sensitive and tended to pick up outside DNA contamination. He also said the bones had been shellacked, which could have preserved the DNA and protected them from contamination by modern DNA.

He said his team ran four separate tests for authenticity - checking whether other amino acids had survived, making sure the DNA sequences they found did not exist in modern humans, making sure the DNA could be replicated in their own lab and then getting other labs to duplicate their results. Comparisons with the DNA of modern humans and of apes showed the Neanderthal was about halfway between a modern human and a chimpanzee....
tholden
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby webolife » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:38 am

You are grasping at straws, Ted. And picking the short one.
Your article on Neanderthal DNA is 20 years old. Much additional and more complete data has been collected since then!! The conical ribcage shape is a biased reconstruction [as all reconstructions are to some degree, this one to a great degree] from a small sampling of bone fragments. Read some current research on the Neanderthals! Neanderthals are still controversial because of the sheer amount of guesswork still being done to put together the full picture, but believe me, there is way more information available today than 20 years ago! That article was written even before the Human Genome Project, and the technology for genetic analysis has exploded since then.You will at some point concede this one on the sheer weight of evidence. Or not. Your belief system seems to be blinding you to real scientific inquiry, which is sorely lacking in your posts on the whole gamut of topics you write about!
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
User avatar
webolife
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby tholden » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:49 am

Svante Paabo at the Max Planck institute is supposedly the world's foremost expert on Neanderthal DNA. The "20 year old" statement that Neanderthal DNA is roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee is perfectly valid.

Aircraft made 20 years ago still fly.

Cars made 20 years ago still roll.

People still live in houses made 20 years ago.

Books written more than 20 years ago are still read. All kinds of things which are 20 years old still function.

1959 Alfa Romeo which still rolls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE-u4PkujDA
tholden
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby webolife » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:20 am

Ted,
Funny you should mention Svante Paabo.
I get my information from him as well. Apparently he was not satisfied with the information and technology available twenty years ago [and really, Ted, who would be?], and has [as a good scientist] incorporated new data into his studies over the years, with the result that his current thinking reflects new understandings! You should try this... it makes the whole field of scientific inquiry so much more exciting to realize that no matter how smart we think we are, it is possible to learn new stuff!!!

Svante Paabo -- transcript from recent TED talk:
https://www.ted.com/talks/svante_paeaebo_dna_clues_to_our_inner_neanderthal/transcript?language=en
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
User avatar
webolife
 
Posts: 2397
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby tholden » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:08 am

A fundamental result such as Neanderthal DNA being roughly halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee is not going to change in 20 years or 20,000 years.

This is a Neanderthal footprint (actual, not theoretical):

Image

Next time it rains, find some mud and see if you can make a footprint like it.....
tholden
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Squating man tatoo

Unread postby tholden » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:11 am

At this point in my judgment, I'm risking making myself look foolish (rising to bait) replying to any more of weboflife's comments. If somebody else has questions about Neanderthals and other hominids, feel free to ask, but the little conversation wigth wol is over.
tholden
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Human Question

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron