Underground Tunnels

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Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Sebastian Pan » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:09 pm

I have recently been thinking about the response of the peoples of Europe and Asia to the terrifying event of 12,000 years ago when a huge electrical discharge of unknown temporal duration excavated the American Southwest. A friend of mine likes to post all sorts of bizarre things he finds online, and recently one such post caught my eye.

http://www.ewao.com/a/12000-year-old-ma ... to-turkey/


Now, I do not know of the total validity of this tunnel system underneath the English Channel all the way to Turkey. I am hoping someone could enlighten me as to its validity.

However, it did occur to me that the people observing this terrifying event, and also having rock, lightning, etc raining down on them from afar could conceivably used their considerable engineering skills to make extensive tunnels for safety from the wrath of the Gods.

What do you all think?
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Specificity » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:05 am

I think it's an utter travesty that this post fell into obscurity.

While I would be quick to call into question the validity of some of the claims of vast, underground networks of tunnels, there are some tunnel networks that are undeniable. While Turkey's tunnel network is documented, there is no evidence the tunnels stretch under the English Channel (no evidence I've come across, or known someone else to have, at least). Bosnia is another example, at their controversial pyramid complex. Pictures of enormous underground complexes in the Urals have surfaced, and there's also the theory of a tunnel/aqueduct network beneath the Sphinx and Great Pyramid complex. Whether these tunnels connect, or even stretch farther than a few miles, may sound like a wild proposition, would nonetheless deserves some consideration, for maybe we've missed something. We have yet to properly explain or recreate the construction methods of the Pyramids, Gobekli, Puma, Macchu's megalithic portions, etc, so we can still be surprised.

The builders of these tunnels must have had a darn good reason to mount such an extreme undertaking, the building of entire communities and (possibly) transport networks underground, through solid rock.

Thunderbolts of the Gods would be a darn good reason to do so.

I would discount invading armies, or the threat of such. I speculate it'd take nearly a generation to complete such a project. Nations could've risen and fallen in that amount of time, priorities could change, fear of one thing could be replaced by the fear of another. As well, if an ancient culture was proficient and advanced enough to build an entire community underground, wouldn't an invading army simply choose to dig them out? I posit that whatever the builders of deep underground communities feared, it didn't have hands and tools.

I do hope this topic becomes a bit more fleshed out, as I've a few theories of my own I'd like to refine. :geek:
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:44 am

Some points, in no particular order:

1. The linked story does not say that the tunnels extend from the Channel to Turkey. It says that tunnels can be found across Europe, i.e. it is not one contiguous system.

2. The source for the linked story is the Ancient Origins website. Make of that what you will.

3. Given that these tunnels seem to be of various shapes and sizes, it does not necessarily follow that they were all built for the same purpose. Also, given the problems with dating them, it does not necessarily follow that they were all built during the same period.

Now, let the baseless speculation begin!
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Specificity » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:31 am

Grey Cloud wrote:Some points, in no particular order:

1. The linked story does not say that the tunnels extend from the Channel to Turkey. It says that tunnels can be found across Europe, i.e. it is not one contiguous system.

2. The source for the linked story is the Ancient Origins website. Make of that what you will.

3. Given that these tunnels seem to be of various shapes and sizes, it does not necessarily follow that they were all built for the same purpose. Also, given the problems with dating them, it does not necessarily follow that they were all built during the same period.

Now, let the baseless speculation begin!


Ancient Origins is about as hit & miss as it gets. It'll host legitimate, sourced articles one moment, and the next is all 'Ancient aliens and nuclear weapons'.

While they may or may not be connected, were we to consider they aren't, why so god-awful many of them?

You're right, though, that having it built in one continuous stretch may seem less likely than being built over a several ages. Considering that notion, why begin in the first place? Then, I guess I hadn't considered the threat of Megafauna.
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:46 pm

I'm not ruling out that some of them may have been built as shelters but then you have to consider the time it would take to actually dig them.

What threat from megafauna are you thinking?
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Specificity » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:09 pm

Christ almighty, I typed several paragraphs out, all of which promptly disappeared when I changed tabs. :evil:

Sorry to paraphrase, but I've little time at the moment:

-Yes, caves would take substantial time/resources to build, one would have to be quite moved to do so.
Rubble/Debris removal becomes more difficult the farther the cave is.
Toxic fumes and air circulation become quite an obstacle to take into consideration.
(Possible to group construction dates for some tunnel systems by comparing techniques used to create air shafts? Also compared against interior construction techniques?)

Megafauna:
-Aboriginals and Native Americans have legends/myths concerning megafauna hazards.
-Saw a post on here yesterday arguing, with compelling evidence, dinos only as old as 30-40k years, suggesting they also represented a hazard to humans.
-Living underground would increase odds of survival, be it dinos or giant predators
-Evidence for either may be found, when one considers destructive potential of plasma discharges, literally underneath mountains, or not at all (ashes to ashes, dust to dust, dinos to dolomite).
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:28 am

Christ almighty, I typed several paragraphs out, all of which promptly disappeared when I changed tabs. :evil:
You will find this forum peppered with comments like that. Anything more than a quick response, use Notepad or similar.
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Specificity » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:29 am

I'll keep that in mind, thank you.
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:12 pm

The tunnels the Romans built as part of their aqueduct systems are pretty amazing, up to 58 miles for one in Jordan, not including the length of all the access/ventilation shafts dug down up to 70 yards, about every 40 meters along
the whole length. About 4 inches a day progress is estimated for a tunnel large enough for a man to stand up in, but
I guess they could have had relay teams, chisel like hell for an hour, bring in another man with a freshly sharpened
chisel. Someone to remove the rock chippings, and someone to keep the olive oil lamps burning.

Though this isn't a tunnel, its part of an underground city complex, it's pretty impressive.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 977718.jpg
Seems they had no fear of thinking big, but the sheer volume of rock removed when you look at all the rock-cut
tombs, temples, dwellings etc all around the world, is just amazing to me.
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Specificity » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:50 pm

GaryN wrote:The tunnels the Romans built as part of their aqueduct systems are pretty amazing, up to 58 miles for one in Jordan, not including the length of all the access/ventilation shafts dug down up to 70 yards, about every 40 meters along
the whole length. About 4 inches a day progress is estimated for a tunnel large enough for a man to stand up in, but
I guess they could have had relay teams, chisel like hell for an hour, bring in another man with a freshly sharpened
chisel. Someone to remove the rock chippings, and someone to keep the olive oil lamps burning.

Though this isn't a tunnel, its part of an underground city complex, it's pretty impressive.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or ... 977718.jpg
Seems they had no fear of thinking big, but the sheer volume of rock removed when you look at all the rock-cut
tombs, temples, dwellings etc all around the world, is just amazing to me.


That picture; Nigeria, isn't it? Looks awful familiar.

That supposition, where one person would chisel like hell until another would relieve him, fresh chisel in hand, wasn't that the technique ascribed to the pyramids at Giza as well? I thought I heard that claim once before, but it was simply deemed implausible and extremely inefficient. After all, the tunnels in question are said to predate the Romans by nearly ten g's; people in that time, even barring the aforementioned megafauna/dinosaurs/cataclysmal threats, are alleged to have had far more important matters at hand (farming, predators, angry neighbors, etc).

(Curious bit of knowledge for the day: There is a single aqueduct system in Mexico, which is unsettlingly reminiscent of the Roman's own system. Construction was alleged to have been overseen by a Spanish friar in the 15-16th Cent [cit needed], of whom, little, to this day, is known about. The curious bit? In recent decades, an independent researcher claimed to have discovered pre-Columbian artwork on some sections of the aqueduct. I can't comprende spanish all too well, someone else should spearhead that research venture)

One scenario I'm happy to outline, which, for the time being, I'll be keeping the specifics as close to my chest as humanly possible:

The rock they dug into, and built their structures from, wasn't the same rock we see today, in regards to material state. Thoughts welcome.

Edit 1: Forgot to add gusto (italics and bold)

Edit 2: Forgot to type in that I added gusto. Yeah, people love me.
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:24 pm

That picture; Nigeria, isn't it? Looks awful familia
r.
Sorry, should have identified it as Gümüşler Manastırı, Niğde, Turkey.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby Specificity » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:32 pm

GaryN wrote:
That picture; Nigeria, isn't it? Looks awful familia
r.
Sorry, should have identified it as Gümüşler Manastırı, Niğde, Turkey.


Yeah, disregard. I actually meant Ethiopia, too.
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Re: Underground Tunnels

Unread postby GaryN » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:52 pm

Cuevas-Canteras de la Sierra de San Cristóbal
Image
This cave complex would seem to show the use of machinery of some description to shape some of the features. As far as I can tell this is not a more recent minimg operation, a government or military facility. It was visited in 1930 by Alfonso XIII of Spain.
http://listarojapatrimonio.org/ficha/ca ... cristobal/
If just one unexplained structure of unknown origin or antiquity can be proven to have been created with machinery, then surely there is something very wrong with the hisyory we are presently taught. Were it know to some ancient civilisation that a catastrophic event was known to be going to occur, then hiding underground would seem an obvious method of possible survival, but how long would they need to be down there? The Hopi and other nations tell how they originally lived underground, and describe the conditions they lived in, which tell how they were crowded into dark worlds with barely room to turn around, which sounds like they were there by necessity and not choice.
Ancient civilisations around the world seem to have nearly all been masters of stonework and cave building, and I believe they had ways that have been forgotten that allowed them to do it much more easily and far faster than possible with the tools we are told they must have used.
Not a cave, but an example of how a fort was build in the remotest of places, and which would again seem to indicate an ability to move large stones and then build amazing structures with them.
Image
Nan Madol in Fiji, which we are told was built by the natives with basalt coluns quaried on another island, by canoe and including the 60 ton cornerstones. The natives said they didn't build it, and the stones either flew through the air by themselves, or were carried by dragons. I'd believe the legends first, as I see the task physically impossible by the methods historians tell us.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient- ... dol-001299
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