Intelligent Design in an Electric Universe?

[Beata-at-home]

StevenJay,
I need to clarify what I said in my previous post.

There is a broad diversity of thought and beliefs within the EU community, and the statement Wal Thornhill made at the Jan. 2013 conference regarding origins settled the question of the position Thunderbolts takes on that issue. For the EU, there is no defining statement about where things came from in the beginning, and the question of origins is left open to personal opinion.

However, Thunderbolts continually researches and brings research to the table that bears striking evidence of a recent, purposeful, and intelligent design from the beginning of things. That is the interpretation of some in the EU group, but not all, certainly. These evidences support that conclusion in my opinion also. A few of these are, for example, the great earth catastrophe (Sun capture, electrical canyon formation and fossilization), the echoing of folk stories telling of creation by spoken words, and the possibilities that the universe is smaller than thought and that star metamorphosis can take less time than thought, and the outstanding and unique properties of water and earth's dependence on it.

These, and other things, in my opinion, reinforce what I believe: that there is one God, that He is good, and that what He has told us is true. It is thrilling for me to hear of these discoveries and developments, as they come, and I'm sure you can understand this, too. For instance, whenever NASA or some other discovers characteristics in space that EU can identify as electromagnetic properties, EU wants to shout it out: "See?! It's an ELECTRIC universe!" despite whatever the other researcers are concluding about their evidence. To them, it's still got to be gravity, or something other than EU solution.

Since I believe that God created ex nihlio with His Word, I do not have to know how that was possible. But it does matter to me to know that all things have a purpose, that all things will be used for a great cause, because there is that One greater than us Who cared so much to design it all and lay it out. I sometimes think of it like Shakespeare said, "all the world is a stage..." but in a different shade of meaning there, to understand that the future has already been determined. I could go on, but you get the point, I think. And I do want to stay on topic.

[GaryN]

@jtb

Gary, you need to read Walter Russell's, The Secret of Light.

Yes, I think I should look deeper into Russell, I've only a passing familiarity with his work. So I just checked my local library catalog hoping to put a hold on something by him, and there is nothing by him in the whole regional library system! I'll be leaning on them to get something, The Secret of light, or The Electric Nature of the Universe maybe.

He contends that all matter is created by light in an electric universe.

That's my take on it. The Sun does have the electric field strengths to be able to create electrons and protons, and other elements by way of resonant interactions. If biological, low energy transmutation can occur, and I believe it does, then the Sun should have no problems. The helium triple nuclear encounter for carbon creation seems to work, and once you have carbon, the other stuff should be much easier to form.

The issue arising from your comment is the origin of the sun. Who created the sun and when?

Maybe no who, and when is probably impossible to deduce. The origin is, IMO, from the event arising at a pinch point in a flux tube, which creates the Light source, which is above hard gamma energies, and which we are unable to detect. These energies are I believe explained in the Kabbalah for one, and other religious or spiritual works. The Kabbalah probably explains the energies above the hard gamma, and up on to information as energy, but the concepts are extremely confusing to me (until I finaly see the Light?) and too time consuming to persue further at the moment.
Electro-optic rectification (needing that non-linear Aether to work) from gamma ray 'collisions' as the source of the magnetic fields, even up to magnetar field strengths is a satisfactory explanation to me. The further away from the Light, the lower the energy levels, and then we see the electrical and magnetic forces that interact to form the dipole, quadrupole and up fields, the vortices, then the spherical and other torus forms, on on.

Russell contends that the creator of all things is light from the Son, not the Sun.

Intentional confusion by religious powers. We are all sons of the Sun really, if all light and vibration is from the Sun, and we are connected to the Sun permanently by way of some kind of forces or fields, and that connection can be strenghtened by the correct practices.

At the moment I'm looking into the non-linear stuff, and Tesla and Vedic science seem to also be pointing out that the Aether is a more or less a neccessity, and becoming more neccessary to explain what even mainstream scientists are discovering.

Theories of the Aether. Articles relating to the Emergence of Scientific Theories of the Cosmic Aether
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_1.html

Reflections on the Mind of Nikola Tesla
http://www.ee.uwa.edu.au/~chandra/Downl ... Tesla.html

[Beata-at-home]

Gary, you say we are all sons of the sun, and jtb was asking where did the sun come from. If the sun had to pre-exist before it could make more atoms like as in itself, plus other different ones, What made the first atoms of the sun, and why not another star, why is it our sun? This is like the perpetual generation machine.

It doesn't much matter which kind of matter you choose to perpetually generate itself. The question of where the first thing came from is never answered.

First, it makes itself, and then it can copy itself and make other things unlike itself. Does the sun have the ability to intentionally create a living world of plants and animals? to organize and plan a civilization? There is no logic or evidence for that. Do we observe it happening? Because if that is true, we would see this happening now. We still have stars and our sun. And this still does not answer the question of "Why are we here?"

[magicjava]

Since “Dumb Luck” is the alternative to “Intelligent Design”, to scientifically falsify intelligent design, an experiment must be created to provide evidence that dumb luck produces better outcomes than intelligence. I guess a dummy winning the lottery trumps a genius designing a bridge.
jtb

It's the old "monkeys at a typerwriter" issue. Well, it turns out the monkeys can define the laws of physics, the laws of math, and so on, very easily. This theory has even been tested with real monkeys.

See the link below. The relevant discussion runs from 58:30 to 1:05:22
http://streamer.perimeterinstitute.ca/F ... iewer.html

[jtb]

Intelligent Design is a concept first introduced about 450 BC. "...Anaxagoras holds in the history of philosophy a high place as the first to perceive that matter is not moved by a force inherent in itself; and to some extent he anticipated Plato and Aristotle by setting up Mind (vovs) as the agent which has produced the world from the original chaos, by altering matter not qualitatively but merely mechanically, and by starting that rotation in it which has resulted in the orderly arrangement of the world which we see." A History of Astronomy from Thales to Kepler by J L E Dreyer, pg 30.

An intelligent "Mind" created the laws of physics that resulted in order from chaos through unlimited mechanical processes begun by rotation of the universe (the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters). Matter was altered mechanically by the resonance of the voice of God: Let there be light, etc....

He also believed matter was "divisible ad infinitum, while there is no void anywhere." In other words, a perfect vacuum (a space containing nothing) does not exist. The space, or interval, between two or more points is filled with something.

Remember, the opposite of Intelligent Design is Dumb Luck.

[Webbman]

Im pretty sure that god is an electrician, but when it comes to humans, im not sure how intelligent the design is.

Unless, of course, this is some kind of test to overcome. In that case im even less sure of the design.

[mague]

Unless, of course, this is some kind of test to overcome. In that case im even less sure of the design.

Well, thats how a bandpass filter works. Its frequency, go and no-go

[jtb]

Im pretty sure that god is an electrician

The lower case god probably is an electrician. Electricity is based on mechanical frequencies or vibrations. In the US we use a 60 cycle resonance produced mechanically by generators. Electricity is the result caused by mechanical means.

[Webbman]

where is this great motor that is currently powering the universe

Electricians most often make circuits. You could argue with a little philosophy that God is the primal electric force, and seems to like making circuits on all scales. Thus electrician.

I would dare you to even try to think without electricity. It cant be done.

[JHL]

where is this great motor that is currently powering the universe

Electricians most often make circuits. You could argue with a little philosophy that God is the primal electric force, and seems to like making circuits on all scales. Thus electrician.

I would dare you to even try to think without electricity. It cant be done.

At the quantum level it seems we're confronted with one of two choices: Particles and states depend on deeper, smaller particles and states to cause-and-effect their operations - see Higgs Boson*, et al - or at some "fundamental" level, they simply do what they do for no reason.

In other words, it's either the impossibility of turtles all the way down forever, or it's only turtles down to a certain point, where the deepest turtles float, causeless but utterly causal, on Nothing - and I'll capitalize that to indicate It's utter faithfulness to Itself, another creation myth as it were - and for no perceptible or rational reason. Yet we just as faithfully scientifically seek the Ultimate Cause somewhere in this catalog of fantastic particles, and never anymore, it seems, in Mind.

But Mind is the thing, isn't it, because meanwhile, linguistically and thus logically, it can be shown that to exist is to possess meaning and hence purpose and again, cause. If the natural state is the non-aether between all non-existent states, charges, particles, and matter, then the state of existence is that of Purpose.

What I like about the EU, aside from the lovely tang of graceful discovery, truth, and sheer reason if imparts in its many scientific manifestations, is that while the foolish, materialistic, mechanical, and one-dimensional Big Bang required nothing more than the most magnificent accidental miracle of all time, the EU is a steady-state (as it were) manifestation of energetic Presence. Of a Flow or a Powering that, at the present moment at least, gives every rational indication of displaying Purpose - and thus meaning, intent, and will, or consciousness - which transcends existence itself, at least as we perceive it. This energy is not only exceptional, it is without a sound scientific definition, as it turns out. Electricity as a traditional definition is also dying and in its place we're learning to see it as, for want of a better perspective, a Force without material initiation at the cosmic level.

That, I think, is a creation myth that makes sense. It also hews closely to the ancients and their mystical grasp of what it is to exist. The Dancing Wu Li Masters, so to speak.

*Interesting too how the great God Particle, in addition to magically providing all other particles their properties by reaching across all domains to faithfully hand them their work orders, fizzled out. It was as if a mirthful G-d placed its mass right between both of our leading theories of origin. I laughed out loud when I learned that. Exquisite!

[jtb]

where is this great motor that is currently powering the universe
Electricians most often make circuits. You could argue with a little philosophy that God is the primal electric force, and seems to like making circuits on all scales. Thus electrician.
I would dare you to even try to think without electricity. It cant be done.

EUs position is that the source of cosmic electricity is unknown. My guess (theory) is that cosmic electrical power is generated mechanically by the rotation of the universe. As the rotation slows through entropy, different circuits are activated, ceased, or changed producing varying physical effects. The mechanical movement of rubbing a balloon produces static electricity.

Yet we just as faithfully scientifically seek the Ultimate Cause somewhere in this catalog of fantastic particles, and never anymore, it seems, in Mind.

I think it ironic that we use our Mind creating scenarios to develop creation myths such as the BB and Evolution, but dismiss Mind as the ultimate cause of creation.

[ranmacar]

I think it ironic that we use our Mind creating scenarios to develop creation myths such as the BB and Evolution, but dismiss Mind as the ultimate cause of creation.

Indeed, my personal view, from observed evidence is as follows:
1. Minds exists - I know of mine for sure, and suppose everybody I talk to has one too
2. Minds procreate. Children have minds too
3. Minds create rules of conduct, in order to facilitate expression (which directs procreation). I assume everybody has this experience

Therefore, the simplest explanation is that the Material Universe is a set of rules, to facilitate Mind expressions.
The simplest expression possible in a medium is an outgoing wave. A new mind, with no rules of conduct thus produces (random) outgoing waves. The outgoing cries of each new Mind add new energy to the universe, and where many active Minds meet, great energy is released. At first, Minds interfere, and by chance, inspiration, they synchronize, resonate, and use these patterns to communicate. Accumulation of these patterns, and facilitation of their production leads to stable geometry of increasing complexity, built by small increments one upon another. Going from aesthetics to physics, chemistry, and by the very same process up to the Http, and more complex REST protocols built upon it, I in this moment use to communicate this idea to you.

[jtb]

Electricity as a traditional definition is also dying and in its place we're learning to see it as, for want of a better perspective, a Force without material initiation at the cosmic level.

Electricity does have a material initiation at the cosmic level: mechanical motion. Electricity cannot exist without some sort of mechanical generator: something to cause electrons to move. EU does not speculate on the origin of this generator. My guess is that the initial cause (mechanical generator) of the Electric Universe is its rotation.

The outgoing cries of each new Mind add new energy to the universe, and where many active Minds meet, great energy is released. At first, Minds interfere, and by chance, inspiration, they synchronize, resonate, and use these patterns to communicate. Accumulation of these patterns, and facilitation of their production leads to stable geometry of increasing complexity, built by small increments one upon another. Going from aesthetics to physics, chemistry, and by the very same process up to the Http, and more complex REST protocols built upon it, I in this moment use to communicate this idea to you.

I agree. However, when certain like-minded people meet, great energy is released with increasing chaos and degenerate violent behavior as in the mob rule of Ferguson, MO and the rape, drug abuse, and murder that occurred during the "occupy wall street" movement when encouraged by like-minded people in DC. The energy released by these like-minded people, if allowed to continue, may result in increasing complexity, but also degeneration of civilization back into the dark ages.

[JHL]

Electricity as a traditional definition is also dying and in its place we're learning to see it as, for want of a better perspective, a Force without material initiation at the cosmic level.

Electricity does have a material initiation at the cosmic level: mechanical motion. Electricity cannot exist without some sort of mechanical generator: something to cause electrons to move. EU does not speculate on the origin of this generator. My guess is that the initial cause (mechanical generator) of the Electric Universe is its rotation.

Yes, generators require motion, while motion - in the EU model as I understand it - has a large component of electrical to mechanical transduction: Electricity is the key material driver.

Conversely, the standard model appears to rely on a Bang producing vast potential energy, and then within it eons of entropic mechanical decay producing energy until the whole shebang winds down to a stop.

My point is that the latter is implausible but the former, once we grant energy a spontaneous but stable state akin perhaps to the classic steady state model - which I think is not unlike the EU model - allows a cosmic driver of a much different kind than a magical, material Bang.

I tend to doubt more a spontaneous, vast material motion producing seas of electrical energy than I do the reverse. Energy, at least, strikes me as possibly having an extra-universal quality while I'm more doubtful of matter popping into existence to become the universal generator of a closed system.

I also realize this delves off into the philosophical. Eventually we always have to confront the Ultimate Turtle - in a causal Universe, what (or What) produced either or both phenomena.

[ranmacar]

may result in increasing complexity, but also degeneration of civilization back into the dark ages.

Yeah, most of the souls would not care either way. The complexity above the human body is trivial in the sense that it can get recreated in a few years, maybe decades to get microchips again.

My point is that the latter is implausible but the former, once we grant energy a spontaneous but stable state akin perhaps to the classic steady state model - which I think is not unlike the EU model - allows a cosmic driver of a much different kind than a magical, material Bang.

I tend to think of it as a sea of consciousness. A fluid Aether, made of units of Mind. Materially, the closest thing is an infinite sea at almost its boiling point - if enough Energy is localized by resonance/interference it "boils", expands, and becomes baryonic Matter.