How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

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nick c
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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by nick c » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:00 am

Hello mague,
The problem is, they havent build anthing worth mentioning since 600 B.C.
I too, noticed the late date. [Personally, I don't subscribe to the conventional dating scheme of Egyptian history, but that is another issue beyond the scope of this thread.]
However, the merkhet in the museum and the picture are not assumed to mark the date of the invention. As it is a simple device, Egyptologists surmise that it was in use long before the 600 BC date. As stated by I.E.S. Edwards in The Pyramids of Egypt, (p257-9 Pelican Original Paperback):
Egyptian texts giving information on the method of orienting buildings are few in number, late in date, and formal in character.
[...]
The word merkhet means literally 'instrument of knowing' and may be translated as 'indicator.'
[...]
In spite of the relatively late date of the inscription referring to the episodes of the foundation ceremonies, there is no reason to doubt that they preserve an ancient tradition.Some indication that similar ceremonies were already current in the Pyramid Age is provided by a fragmentary relief found in the Vth Dynasty Sun-temple of Niussere, which shows the king and priestess impersonating the goddess Seshat, each holding a mallet and stake to which a measuring cord is attached.
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Also, the Egyptians would initiate the construction of a building with a ceremony called the "stretching of the cord," which is believed to be a means of orienting a building to the cardinal points. [Keep in mind that a magnetic compass does not point to the North (axis of rotation) Pole but rather to the Magnetic North.] This could have been done with either/or solar or stellar observations. Here is an interesting article on alignments of the Egyptian Pyramids:
http://www.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al4.htm
The question of the method followed in orienting the pyramids has been the object of a detailed study by Zbynek Zába. The documents prove beyond any doubt that the initial operation in erecting an important structure in Egypt was the ceremony of the ”stretching of the cord,” by which through the observation of stars with some sort of transit there was determined the North-South direction. The East-West direction was marked by tracing a perpendiculiar to the basic line.

Zába observes that since the pyramids were oriented to the North by the observation of stars, the position of the Pole must have been obtained by bisecting the angle formed by the two extreme positions of a circumpolar star. Most scholars are of the opinion that the orientation was obtained by this procedure or by a similar one. But a few scholars have observed that a much simpler method of obtaining the northerly direction is to observe the direction of the shortest shadow of the sun at the solstices.



nick c

kevin
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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by kevin » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:37 am

I would not place too much faith in what is written about the pyramids,
http://www.rickrichards.com/egypt/Egypt_1.htm

As for the setting out, I have not personally been to the egyptian pyramids, but I will wager anyone I know how and why they were set out precisely where they are.
Here's a clue,
http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba94/feat2.shtml

I have bothered to check lots of churchs and cathedrals myself, and many masonic lodges, it's all about geometry, strange fractal geometry that is invisable.
The pyramids will precisely sit upon this geometry, to utilise it's potential , and to cross between dimensions, that are also invisable , but not to the ones who surveyed the floorplans, the magi.

The churchs numbers give a better glimpse to the true reason for their orientations, it has nothing to do with magnetic orientations, they move about, that which the churchs are aligned to, and the megalithic structures which again I have bothered to check out , are aligned to the matrix, and ALL knowledge flows on the matrix, so to KNOW the matrix is to KNOW many things, especially where the matrix meets in abundance, such as where those geometrically designed sarcofoguses were placed?

Kevin

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nick c
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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by nick c » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:46 pm

Hi Kevin,
I would not place too much faith in what is written about the pyramids,
http://www.rickrichards.com/egypt/Egypt_1.htm
Then should I place any faith in that website, for after all, isn't that something that is written about the pyramids? Actually, everything written about any mystery has to be judged on the basis of the evidence and arguments presented, not on faith, imhop.
I looked that site over and found it very interesting. Yet the author leaves us hanging, for the site is still under construction. I have read it before, that the cartouche of Khufu may be a forgery. Also, even in mainstream, it is disputed that the Great Pyramid was intended to be a tomb. For various reasons, they are often described as funerary monuments, not actually intended to contain the body of anyone. Thanks for the link, I will keep track of it to see the direction in which he is headed. Interesting.
However, that does not change anything previously posted in this thread concerning how the Egyptians aligned their buildings including the Pyramids.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Pyramids were built by dynastic Egyptians using conventional methods- by that I mean quarrying and hauling stones, using ramps, cranes, ropes, etc or other such simple machines with a mixture of plenty of manpower. And aligning those buildings with the methods (and/or similar methods) discussed in this thread. I don't doubt that the Egyptians (and other ancient civilizations) possibly had occasion to use some methods and technologies that are anomalies in the orthodox historical scheme, such as concrete or hardened steel tools. Of course, the fault for this lies in our understanding of ancient history, not the Egyptians.

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by kevin » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:07 pm

nick c,
I have walked myself almost silly tramping about ancient places, and it's a lonely path the dowser walks.
That is totally because of the ignorance of our own abilities, almost fear of those abilities.
We have repeated and repeated so many times the same tales, that those tales are now stated as fact.

Those abilities are dormant within all, they are looked over by a system that demands conformity, where might is right, and only see-able proof is accepted, physical tangible proof, but only the accepted proof, if it doesn't conform , then it is ridiculed and surpressed.
Nobody can do such things to the birds that fly half way around the globe, and so many other seemingly impossible feats by many creatures, but we can impose the control over ourselves, demand that the view point of the strongest and most powerfull is all that is heard.
Thus the knowing is squashed, our own evolvement crushes our abilities down to the lowest common denominator.

Well this very machine is altering that, unheard of people such as myself suddenly can express the amazing talents lying dormant within ourselves.
And once those talents are exercised , they readily recognise the remnants of past times when such talents were simply a given.

I haunt the British museum, drawn to the assyrian and egyptian relics, checking them from my own strange view point, thought by many as mystical and magic, no it's not, it's totally natural.

It's also as though a light switch has been thrown in my head, information finds Me, I am the recieving antennae, I can modulate to the signals, it's simple , but otherwise there is no reception.
This occurs especially as I sleep, sometimes I wake up thinking of course of course, so obvious, why didn't I think of that before, it's information that is available to all, all we have to do is re-learn how to access it properly, not stuff our heads full of nonesense simply repeating what others tell us to repeat, we are not parrots.

We are all ONE, part of a vast life force, a manifesting force that we are specks of, not seperate biological nothings.
I KNOW this.
Kevin

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by junglelord » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:11 pm

It's also as though a light switch has been thrown in my head, information finds Me, I am the recieving antennae, I can modulate to the signals, it's simple , but otherwise there is no reception.
This occurs especially as I sleep, sometimes I wake up thinking of course of course, so obvious, why didn't I think of that before, it's information that is available to all, all we have to do is re-learn how to access it properly, not stuff our heads full of nonesense simply repeating what others tell us to repeat, we are not parrots.
Syncronicity surrounds my own information encounters, to such a large degree, that the universe does talk to me.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:30 pm

Kevin wrote:
I
t's also as though a light switch has been thrown in my head, information finds Me, ...
Junglelord wrote:
Syncronicity surrounds my own information encounters, to such a large degree, that the universe does talk to me.
I think of that which communicates with me as Athene but it's the same difference.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by mague » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:54 pm

nick c wrote:Hello mague,
The problem is, they havent build anthing worth mentioning since 600 B.C.
I too, noticed the late date. [Personally, I don't subscribe to the conventional dating scheme of Egyptian history, but that is another issue beyond the scope of this thread.]
However, the merkhet in the museum and the picture are not assumed to mark the date of the invention. As it is a simple device, Egyptologists surmise that it was in use long before the 600 BC date.


nick c
Hello nick c,

i think they always used Polaris. Just as the gadget does. But the pendulum seems to be a late invention. I do think at the beginning they targetet Polaris and used the shadows of the trageting staff while certain daytimes like sunrise for example. I see always those egyptians with their staffs and ank's :). Cardinal directions are easy to find with Polaris, just the 23.18 degree tilt is a bit harder to track. But then i read that the tilt is changing 3-4 degree within 40.000 years. The Milankovitch cycles seem to play an interessting role when it comes to climate. Probably this is why they cared so much for alignment. Ice age in the north is green desert in egypt...

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:56 am

Yet another essay on the pyramids:
http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/KollerstromN2.php
Too many modern hieroglyphs (maths) for me.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by GaryN » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:12 pm

lizzie mentioned this link some time ago:

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.c ... start.html

I came upon what seems to be the full version, it is LONG, but ties together much of what I have read over the years in a way that I feel makes sense. I haven't read it all by any means, so not saying I agree with it all, but I'd be interested to hear others opinions.

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.c ... gins1.html
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by kevin » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:05 pm

GaryN,
"It is long", no kidding?
Brilliant though, there does appear to be an ultimate Adjenda, and it must be very important ?, to have been maintained for so so long a time?
Kevin

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by altonhare » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:14 pm

kevin wrote: I have walked myself almost silly tramping about ancient places, and it's a lonely path the dowser walks.
Do you have any evidence/support of this?
kevin wrote:and only see-able proof is accepted, physical tangible proof, but only the accepted proof, if it doesn't conform , then it is ridiculed and surpressed.
If someone offers to exchange me a gold bar for my X, but can't show me the gold bar, it's no deal. You can argue that what we see is not everything and that the physical is not everything all you want, I'm not gonna buy nothing.

The issue of accepted proof and conformity, on the other hand, is another issue. I have very strong feelings against anything like an "accepted doctrine" or conformity. Although I may disagree with you Kevin, and others, I would never quell your voices.

If I owned a scientific journal I'd publish all of you, even Junglelord :).
kevin wrote:I haunt the British museum, drawn to the assyrian and egyptian relics, checking them from my own strange view point, thought by many as mystical and magic, no it's not, it's totally natural.
Do you have any evidence of this?

I'm still trying to get through all the material presented on the pyramids so far. Lotta stuff, thanks ppl.
Physicist: This is a pen

Mathematician: It's pi*r2*h

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nick c
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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by nick c » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:57 pm

hello mague,
you wrote:
i think they always used Polaris. Just as the gadget does. But the pendulum seems to be a late invention. I do think at the beginning they targetet Polaris and used the shadows of the trageting staff while certain daytimes like sunrise for example. I see always those egyptians with their staffs and ank's . Cardinal directions are easy to find with Polaris, just the 23.18 degree tilt is a bit harder to track.
That would be a problem, due to the precession of the equinoxes, because Polaris was not close enough to the north celestial pole in ancient times. Presently, Polaris is with in a degree of the ncp, but that was not the case in the past. As the alignments to the cardinal points are very accurate, to within a couple of minutes of arc in the case of the Great Pyramid, they did more than just line up to a pole star.
That is why, it was more difficult to find the ncp back then, and the ancients would have to have used either the stellar or solar methods previously described. The Egyptians and others had instruments (obelisks, merkhets, etc) to use either method. The 23.5 degree inclination could be determined by observations of the sun's shadow, as 23.5 degrees is the farthest the Sun would move (tropics of cancer and capricorn) away from the celestial equator before changing its' direction. Also, after the ncp was determined its' number of degrees above the horizon would equal the latitude of that location (so any rod pointed at the ncp would be parallel to the Earths axis of rotation, this is the concept behind the [url2=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_mount]German Equatorial Mounting[/url2] used to support some telescopes.)

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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by junglelord » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:25 pm

Hi Alton.
:D
Thats nice that you would "publish", but I have invented nothing really. I just pulled it all together, like Bruce Lee.
I did come to the same conclusion as many others, but I always found the work completed by others. In the end the truth exists and will always be available as it is re-established over and over. It is both a individual truth and a collective truth. Both co-exist while being integrated but always seperate. I have no ability to publish anything but my own work in Soft Tissue Therapy and how Structure and Function cannot be seperated. I would explain how Ida Rolf created her work based on sound Osteopathic Principles. That Gravity is the source of many aliments. That we can correct many aliments with structural approaches. The Fascia is the organ of support. We can apply our hands to that tissue and by doing so apply energy to the tissue and structural changes will result. This will have a direct impact on function. Medicine needs to incorporate gravity into her protocols. Structural Medicine is a real thing and I am a Master.

The Laying On of Hands is as ancient as it gets. Its very powerful and I have been able to solve many complex issues with this approach. I call it the Gift of Healing. Its very special and I am very blessed as were all my patients. My favorite patients were other medical professionals, Doctors, Chiropractors, Nurses, Physiotherapist, Structural Therapist, Psychologists. They were amazed at what I knew and what I did. I will be teaching post graduate in Montreal very soon.
:D
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

Grey Cloud
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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:34 am

GaryN wrote:lizzie mentioned this link some time ago:

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.c ... start.html

I came upon what seems to be the full version, it is LONG, but ties together much of what I have read over the years in a way that I feel makes sense. I haven't read it all by any means, so not saying I agree with it all, butI'd be interested to hear others opinions.

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.c ... gins1.html
Hi Gary,
It's crap. The usual methodology of these authors: no narrative just a string of assertions backed up by some creative quoting, seasoned with a lot of name dropping of classic and classical works that have either not been read at all or read and not understood. The only purpose of this book is to sell lots of them to a gullible American audience. He is of course also aiming at a gullible Irish and British audience but there are not as many of them: the real money is in America.
Tsarion wouldn't know a 'fact' if he tripped over one. And don't get me started on his etymology: 'Aries' and 'arises'? In what language?
Aries
Aries
Aries.3.jpg (7.02 KiB) Viewed 13421 times
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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GaryN
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Re: How did ancient peoples know "so much"?

Unread post by GaryN » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:34 pm

Thanks for your opinion GC, I do appreciate your bluntness!

I do believe though, that there has been a determined and quite thorough elimination of evidence of humanities past knowledge and abilities. The Irish connection had not been a serious contender in my view of the past, but in considering the expanding earth theory, perhaps Ireland was the north-eastern extent of the theorised Atlantis, as the Bahamas might have been the south-western extent.
The earth would not have had to expand much along the mid-Atlantic area to have pulled down the Atlantean land mass or islands. I am reminded of laying a carpet, where if you have an extra couple of cm of length, you get a large 'hump' in your carpet. You need only trim a seemingly small amount off to get the carpet to lay flat. If Atlantis was sitting on the hump, I can imagine it falling a long way in a short time with a small horizontal stretching of the seafloor.
I believe, as I think do you, that our past was explained best in Critias and Timaeus, but seeing as there is such a large amount of information denied us, I like to keep my options open a little at least.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller

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