EU and Human Origins

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

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EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tholden » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:24 am

The problem has been, that standard pronouncements as to human origins are basically nonsensical no matter where you turn.

If you want to believe that humans evolved from hominids, you need to believe that some hominid human-wannabee:

  • Lost his fur coat while an ice age was going on.
  • Lost 99% of his sense of smell while trying to make it as a prey animal on land.
  • Lost almost all of his night vision at a time when night was the only time of day to be had.

You say that doesn't sound like a formula for success?

If, on the other hand, you prefer to believe (as I do) that God created modern man fully formed, then there is a question as to whether God would create a creature on a world for which the creature was spectacularly ill-adapted.

For that matter, somebody might claim that God created the Neanderthal for this planet the way it existed some tens of thousands of years ago, and that would make perfect sense...

Image
(image courtesy http://www.themandus.org)

Until now, the EU has not had anything to offer along these lines. In fact, the lack of anything resembling a corresponding and coherent theory of human origins has been the most major weakness of the EU and Saturn Theory generally.

All of that is the bad news. The good news is, that help has arrived:

http://www.cosmosincollision.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Cosmos-in-Collisi ... +collision
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby 303vegas » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:49 am

I don't know about being created by god (I wasn't there at the time...) but I could go along with a theory that we're not indigenous to this planet and evolved somewhere else. I've always felt that we, as a species, just don't fit, unlike, as you say, our Neanderthal associates. Perhaps we are refugees or survivors of a 'saucer crash' of maybe we were marooned here, possibly as some sort of punishment or perhaps Douglas Adams was right about us being descended from the Golgafrinchian 'useless third!' When you look at how badly we can behave at times then the prison colony idea starts to look fairly plausible.
love from lancashire!
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tayga » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:48 pm

Looks good, Ted, and I agree it's a necessary book.

I've downloaded it onto my Kindle. :)
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It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

- Richard P. Feynman

Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
- Thomas Kuhn
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby mague » Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:17 am

When i dont understand something i use the rule of thumb: It is what it is.

Humans destiny is their ability to master an almost infinite bandwith of emotional wave patterns. Be it ex- or impession of such wavepatterns. Personally i am convinced those waves are by far more potent then the work of SETI using simple radio waves...

The known history of humankind is a history of learning to deal with emotions. Thats why different other species decided to build a synegy with humans. As farmers we had the best chance to develop our emotional abilities.

Humans sensed planets and had their ups and downs to deal with saturn and jupiter and sun's and a billion other waves presence in the band of emotional waves etc.
All the killing and suffering is based on emotions. Love, sense of inferiority and so on.

This all doesnt matter if someone understands the term "original sin". Its like financal depts. If you dont pay them your children will have to pay them. If those dont pay them their children will have to. If nobody pays them back for centuries they will lead to self destructing emotional bankruptcy.

The "original sin" is not a religious theme but a mental. The problems of the old still rule us. All our problems are a heritage form the past. I dont want to go deeper into this. Just that: We are not in development mode but in debugging mode. If we dont start to clean up the "sins" we never ever again will be able to develop as one species.
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tholden » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:26 am

303vegas wrote:I don't know about being created by god (I wasn't there at the time...) but I could go along with a theory that we're not indigenous to this planet and evolved somewhere else. I've always felt that we, as a species, just don't fit, unlike, as you say, our Neanderthal associates. Perhaps we are refugees or survivors of a 'saucer crash' of maybe we were marooned here....



Troy favors that sort of an idea in the case of Cro Magnon people, but you'd need a time machine to get past speculation as to how humans were actually transferred to this planet. What Troy and I HAVE determined, to a statistical certainty at least, is where humans originally came from, and the reason for the multi-thousand-year time lapse between Cro Magnon people and the familiar antediluvians of Genesis.

By "to a statistical certainty", I mean that it would take a zero-probability event having occurred for us to be wrong. In other words, the only two alternatives would be humans arriving from real interstellar/cosmic distances, or from something entirely like the place we posit, which has since been destroyed an vanished.
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tholden » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:33 am

tayga wrote:Looks good, Ted, and I agree it's a necessary book...




Thanks, that (being necessary) is also the impression Troy and I have. I don't see the EU and Saturn Theory going very much further without some sort of an explanation for humans, and none of the standard explanations work.

Kindle seems to mean I can afford all of the books I ever wanted, kind of like a kid being turned loose in a free or very cheap candy/comic-book store. We've lived into a sort of a magical age...
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby Janadele » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:07 pm

William Wordsworth wrote:

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting;
The soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting
And cometh from afar:
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy
:)
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tholden » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:26 am

Janadele wrote:William Wordsworth wrote:

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting;
The soul that rises with us, our life’s Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting
And cometh from afar:
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy
:)


Humans DO in fact have some sort of a racial memory of an original paradise world. Clean, (fresh) watery, bright, no sea monsters or diseases... The remains of that world today are called 'Ganymede'. The book goes into details.
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tholden » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:29 am

It is known that the Neanderthal had a bigger brain than we do but was not as bright or inventive. You'd think that if a creature with a bigger brain than ours had lived here for several hundred thousand years before we got here, the least we should find is Neanderthal cities, but there aren't any.

A recent article indicates that much of the large Neanderthal brain amounted to something like neurological equivalent of the circuitry for a military night vision scope:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 093639.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21759233

That indicates that our world was a VERY dark place in prehistoric times. Hominids, dinosaurs, and other very old families of creatures which lived during those times all had the same kinds of huge eyes, apparently for a more serious kind of darkess than we've ever experienced.
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:15 am

tholden wrote:It is known that the Neanderthal had a bigger brain than we do but was not as bright or inventive. You'd think that if a creature with a bigger brain than ours had lived here for several hundred thousand years before we got here, the least we should find is Neanderthal cities, but there aren't any.

A recent article indicates that much of the large Neanderthal brain amounted to something like neurological equivalent of the circuitry for a military night vision scope:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 093639.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21759233

That indicates that our world was a VERY dark place in prehistoric times. Hominids, dinosaurs, and other very old families of creatures which lived during those times all had the same kinds of huge eyes, apparently for a more serious kind of darkess than we've ever experienced.


aka purple dawn.

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tholden » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:36 am

D_Archer wrote:
aka purple dawn.



You got it. Almost like one of those famous straight lines ("How dark was it?").....
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tayga » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:59 am

tholden wrote:That indicates that our world was a VERY dark place in prehistoric times. Hominids, dinosaurs, and other very old families of creatures which lived during those times all had the same kinds of huge eyes, apparently for a more serious kind of darkess than we've ever experienced.


Thinking back to my school days (when I last studied biology) most of the argument for nocturnal habit has to do with avoiding predation. Since Neanderthals must have been pretty high up the food chain they'd probably have been day time hunters. This supports your argument that days must have been particularly dull ;)
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It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

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Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
- Thomas Kuhn
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tholden » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:42 am

tayga wrote:
tholden wrote:That indicates that our world was a VERY dark place in prehistoric times. Hominids, dinosaurs, and other very old families of creatures which lived during those times all had the same kinds of huge eyes, apparently for a more serious kind of darkess than we've ever experienced.


Thinking back to my school days (when I last studied biology) most of the argument for nocturnal habit has to do with avoiding predation. Since Neanderthals must have been pretty high up the food chain they'd probably have been day time hunters. This supports your argument that days must have been particularly dull ;)


There was no day time or day light in those times.

http://saturndeathcult.com/the-sturn-de ... rple-haze/
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby tayga » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:15 am

tholden wrote:There was no day time or day light in those times.


Yes, I understood that. Maybe I shouldn't have used the 'd' word. My point was that the line of reasoning above leads one to conclude that a top predator would have been adapted to the best light conditions available at that time.
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It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

- Richard P. Feynman

Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
- Thomas Kuhn
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Re: EU and Human Origins

Unread postby CuriousCat » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:24 am

Whether humans are indigenous to this planet or not, we do seem to be here now. I know, I'm overstating the obvious.

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