Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

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Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by Solar » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:12 pm

One of my favorite articles. I keep loosing track of it so I'll just kind of store it here.
by Jonathan Tennenbaum

(Full text of article from summer 2000 21st Century)


A Simple Experiment
Change in Shape over Time

Postscript

When the ‘Scientific Method’ Obstructs Science


|Russian scientists discover unexpected regularities in radioactive decay, linked to astronomical cycles
Two years ago, nearly unnoticed in the West, the Russian biophysicist S.E. Shnoll published a paper in the prominent Russian physics journal Uspekhi Fisicheskikh Nauk1 summing up the results of more than three decades of investigations of anomalous statistical regularities in a wide range of physical, chemical, and biological processes, from radioactive decay to the rates of biochemical reactions.

The evidence points unambiguously to the existence of a previously unknown relationship between fluctuations in the rates of radioactive and other processes in the laboratory, and major astronomical cycles, including the day, month, and year. The implication is, that many phenomena which until now have been regarded as purely statistical in character—such as the distribution of fluctuations in the momentary rates of radioactivity measured in a sample—are somehow controlled or at least strongly influenced by an astrophysical factor, which varies in time in the same way at all points on the Earth.

Vladimir Voeikov, a colleague of Shnoll, comments in the Spring 2000 issue of 21st Century: “Shnoll’s work shows that time is heterogeneous. It is not a Newtonian time. Each moment in time is different from another, and this can be seen in any physical process that you study.”

Albert Einstein, who rejected claims by Niels Bohr and others that the fundamental microphysical processes are essentially, irreducibly random in character, liked to say that “God does not play dice.” Einstein and others pointed to the arbitrary nature of Bohr’s argument: Just because physicists in Bohr’s time could not penetrate beyond the apparent randomness of radioactive decay and other microscopic processes, to find a deeper lawfulness and regularity underlying such processes, does not mean that science is doomed to remain in that state of ignorance forever!

By demonstrating the existence of a universal, astronomical factor influencing the fine structure of supposedly random fluctuations, Shnoll et al. have opened up an entirely new field of scientific investigation which is not supposed to exist, according to Bohr.

A Simple Experiment
We now give a very brief description of the basic phenomenon discovered by Shnoll and his collaborators. The phenomenon itself is so astonishingly simple, that it is amazing that it has not attracted more attention until now.
The simplest case is the measurement of radioactive decay, where Shnoll has conducted thousands of experiments of the following simple type. We take a radioactive sample, and place it in front of a suitable detector (such as a Geiger counter), which counts the individual acts of radioactive decay of nuclei in the sample by detecting the emitted particles. Assuming the half-life of the radioactive element involved is relatively long, the count-rate of the detector, in counts per second or per minute, will fluctuate around a certain average value, which is related to the number of radioactive atoms in the sample and their half-life.

This phenomenon of continual fluctuations in the number of counts per unit time, around a relatively fixed average value, is normally accounted for by assuming that the radioactive decay of any given atom is a random event, and the assumption that decay of a given atom occurs independently of the other atoms in the sample. Thus, each atom which has not yet decayed up to a certain moment in time, has a certain probability of decaying during the next minute—a probability which is fixed for any given isotope by the character of that isotope, and virtually independent of the temperature, chemical environment, and activity of neighboring atoms.

An extraordinary phenomenon emerges, however, when we examine the fluctuations more carefully, with the help of a histogram: We fix a certain period of time (10 seconds, or a minute for example), and record the number of counts during each of a series of consecutive intervals of the given length. This gives us a sequence of whole numbers. We construct a histogram, by plotting the number of times a given whole number appears in the sequence, as a function of the number.

Now, from the standpoint of simple statistics we would expect the histogram curve to have a simple bell shape, with a maximum around the number corresponding to the overall average number of counts, and then declining gradually on both sides. Naturally, if the number of measurements is small, the histogram will look more irregular, owing to the effect of random fluctuations; but we would expect that as we increase the total time of measurement, the curve would become closer and closer to the ideal mathematical bell curve.

However, real measurements of radioactivity and many other processes, carried out by Shnoll and others over many years, give a completely different result! The histograms typically show several clearly defined peaks, which do not “smooth out” as we increase the number of measurements, but which actually become more and more pronounced!

In four histograms, each plotting the results of 1,200 consecutive measurements of the radioactivity of a sample of the iron isotope Fe-55, over 36-second intervals, the largest peak corresponds to the average count, of about 31,500 pulses per 36 seconds; but there are a number of other peaks, which we can see emerging more and more clearly as we follow the cumulative results of the first 100, 200, 300, and so on, measurements as “layers” under the main curve (Figure 1).

Change in Shape over Time
The histograms, made from more than two days from four successive 12-hour-long series of measurements, show another typical phenomenon discovered by Shnoll: The shapes of the histograms change over time (Figure 2). Most remarkably, the shapes of histograms for independent measurements taken over the same time period, tend to be very similar.

For example, simultaneous measurement of the reaction rate of ascorbic acid, dichlorophenolindophenol (DCPIP), and beta activity of carbon-14 show histograms of very similar shape.

These and a large number of other experiments carried out by Shnoll and his collaborators over many years, point unambiguously to the existence of a universal factor influencing the shapes of histograms, and which varies in time. Furthermore, the Russian researchers have discovered well-defined periods, over which similar histogram shapes tend to recur (Figure 3).

To do this, they devised a computer-based algorithm for measuring the relative degree of “closeness” or similarity of histogram shapes, and on this basis carried out a computer analysis of hundreds of histograms taken over a long period. Examining the distribution of time intervals between “similar” histograms, they found strong peaks at 0 hours (that is, histograms made independently at the same time tend to be similar), at approximately 24 hours, at 27.28 days (probably corresponding to the synodic rotation of the Sun), and at three time intervals close to a year: 364.4, 365.2 and 366.6 days.

More recent data, just reported to the author, indicate that the “24-hour” period is actually slightly shorter, and corresponds quite precisely to a sidereal day! The latter would suggest, that at least one astronomical factor influencing histogram shape may originate outside the solar system, being associated with the orientation of the measuring station relative to the galaxy, and not only relative to the Sun.

Shnoll concludes: “From the data presented above, it follows that the ‘idea of shape’—the fine structure of distributions of results of measurements of processes of diverse nature—is determined by cosmological factors.” He does not put forward a definite hypothesis concerning the nature of the these factors, but suggests as a possibility the notion of a global “change of space-time structure,” and notes that “a sound analysis of such a hypothesis will possibly require experiments under different gravitational conditions.”

Clearly, these results should be intensively followed up by scientists around the world.

Jonathan Tennenbaum, based in Wiesbaden, Germany, is a member of the scientific advisory board of 21st Century Science & Technology magazine. He heads the Fusion Energy Foundation in Europe.

Notes
1. See S.E. Shnoll, V.A. Kolombet, E.V. Pozharskii, T.A. Zenchenko, I.M. Zvereva, and A.A. Konradov, 1998. “Realization of discrete states during fluctuations in macroscopic processes,” in Uspekhi Fisicheskikh Nauk, Vol. 41, No. 10, pp. 1025-1035. A new paper is currently in preparation. Shnoll’s group is based at Moscow State University
.
21st Centruy Sience and Technology Magazine
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by junglelord » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:23 pm

Well if that does not sound like the space-resonance of APM, then I do not know what does.
I may be wrong, but I am sure this is evidence of the work of Dave Thomson. I will give him the link and see if I called that correct.
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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by klypp » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:27 am

What it sounds like is that radioactive decay is affected by the rotation of the earth, the moon orbiting the earth and the earth orbiting the sun. There is no "challenge of absolute time" in this!
He does not put forward a definite hypothesis concerning the nature of the these factors, but suggests as a possibility the notion of a global “change of space-time structure,” and notes that “a sound analysis of such a hypothesis will possibly require experiments under different gravitational conditions.”
The nature of the experiments he mentions sounds interesting and also suggests he is on the right track. It's a shame he has to put in nonsense like “change of space-time structure" to get the modern peers of science interested.

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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by nick c » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:58 am

Solar:
Interesting article. The authors are saying that the solar system and galactic conditions affect radioactive decay rates! and that's under present conditions.
What are the implications to the usefulness of applying radioactive decay rates for the purposes of geological dating? and under non-uniformitarian circumstances?

Nick

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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by Solar » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:49 pm

nick c wrote:Solar:
Interesting article. The authors are saying that the solar system and galactic conditions affect radioactive decay rates! and that's under present conditions.
What are the implications to the usefulness of applying radioactive decay rates for the purposes of geological dating? and under non-uniformitarian circumstances?

Nick
Indeed
Russian scientists discover unexpected regularities in radioactive decay linked to astronomical cycles
From the link:

"The implication is that many phenomena which until now have been regarded as purely statistical in character -- such as the distribution of fluctuations in the momentary rates of radioactivity measured in a sample -- are somehow controlled or at least strongly influenced by an astrophysical factor..."

If radioactive decay is linked to astronomical cycles, as these scientists argue, then this could challenge conventional chronologies. Additionally, if the solar system has suffered upheavals in recent millenia, especially of an intense electrical nature as many catastrophists contend, then traditional dating methods become almost obsolete. - Plasmacosmology.net
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by klypp » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:14 am

First, just hoping to plug a potential rabbit hole here: When I said there is no challenge of absolute time in this, I was thinking of all the "time" nonsense these kind of papers always stir up. And this paper is no exception. It has already been taken as experimental proof of Einsteinian Relativity as well as experimental disproof of the same theory. But this is a non-sense discussion. Both sides are simply ignoring the fact that you would need accurate and absolute time to measure these fluctuations in the first place...
Now, with that said, radiocarbonate dating is something else. But...

While it is true that radiocarbonate dating is affected by this, it is also true that the effect is very small. I'm a bit surprised that plasmacosmology.net pushes this the way they do, because there is quite a few other factors involved with a much, much bigger impact on radiocarbonate dating than these tiny fluctuations. Even Wikipedia knows this.
A raw BP date cannot be used directly as a calendar date, because the level of atmospheric 14C has not been strictly constant during the span of time that can be radiocarbon dated. The level is affected by variations in the cosmic ray intensity which is affected by variations in the earth's magnetosphere. In addition there are substantial reservoirs of carbon in organic matter, the ocean, ocean sediments (see methane hydrate), and sedimentary rocks. Changing climate can sometimes disrupt the carbon flow between these reservoirs and the atmosphere. The level has also been affected by human activities—it was almost doubled for a short period due to atomic bomb tests in the 1950s and 1960s and has been lowered by the admixture of large amounts of CO2 from ancient organic sources relatively depleted in 14C —the combustion products of fossil fuels used in industry and transportation, known as the Suess effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

Radiocarbonate dating is based on the idea that the level of 14C in the atmosphere has been constant for several thousand years, but it only took some atomic bombs to almost double this level! I can't even imagine what some real upheavals would do!

So...
Why complaint about a calendar because you've discovered something that might prove this calendar wrong by a day or two, when you already know it's probably wrong by centuries?! ;)

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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by Solar » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:05 am

klypp wrote: So...
Why complaint about a calendar because you've discovered something that might prove this calendar wrong by a day or two, when you already know it's probably wrong by centuries?! ;)
I don't consider it 'complaining'. It is the result of experiment, it gets noted, and you take it for what it is. If there are bigger fish in the sea, such as the A-bomb influence from the wiki reference, and one prefers that; then so be it.

I don't have a problem with the size of the nails put into the coffin of erroneous assumptions.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by lizzie » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:43 pm

junglelord said:
Well if that does not sound like the space-resonance of APM, then I do not know what does.
I may be wrong, but I am sure this is evidence of the work of Dave Thomson. I will give him the link and see if I called that correct.
Oh, I like that idea of space resonance. It made me think of something similar I read concerning Cymatics.

http://www.cymaticsource.com/cymaticsbook.html

The wave phenomena using sound (vibration) changes matter and creates new geometric forms which could alter the “fabric of space time” itself.

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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by junglelord » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:44 am

I was actually quite wrong in my guess and trying to relate it to APM. Dave Thompson did say what it meant, but with my brain injury I forget what he said....and I forgot to save it, or post it....
:oops:
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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Re: Russian Discovery Challenges Existence of ‘Absolute Time’

Unread post by StefanR » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:33 am

I haven't got much time now, but neutrinos seem to me quite the culprit in relation to fluctuations in radioactivity.
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

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