Aardwolf wrote: Goldminer wrote: Aardwolf wrote:
Goldminer wrote:1.Is the shape of the propagation something other than a sphere? Any observer; moving or not, cannot see the sphere since only a ray from the source is available to any single observer.
The shape is a sphere as measured from the original location
of the emitter, not as measured from its subsequent movement through space. Until you accept this you cannot resolve the problem that all observers in the universe should observe two adjacent flashes at the same time from any observation point in the universe . . .
If you look back through the thread,“The shape is a sphere as measured from the original location
of the emitter [when the particular wave sphere was emitted], not as measured from its [the source's] subsequent movement through space” has been my premises from the very start of this thread! I am pleased that you agree with me on this.
Then please explain why A does not see the flash from X and the flash form B at exactly the same time (within a few nanoseconds)? Both emitters were at the same original location when the flashes occurred and the distance from those emission locations to A is the same.
we use the initial point of the flashes as origins for the observer frames, then we can refer to these origins as we discuss further. From either X's or B's point of view, one frame's source is "at rest with its observers" and the other frame has observers in un-accelerated (inertial) motion ); at rest with the moving frame's origin but relatively in motion with the "at rest frame." At any given time after the initial flash, the expanding sphere caused by the flash will be a certain diameter.
(I am examining only one of the flashes, since everything about this flash applies to the other flash too, only the players are reversed.)
Do you think the expanding sphere from one source, centered upon where the source was when the flash was emitted; splits in two and now there are two expanding spheres from this source, one in the source frame and one in the moving frame?
If you do, then you must provide an infinite number of spheres split from this source, since there can be an infinite number of moving observer frames observing this one expanding sphere, centered upon where the source was when the flash was emitted.
At any given time after the initial flash, the expanding sphere caused by the flash will be a certain diameter. Do you think it is possible for a set of observers in the source frame to observe this sphere at a given time from emission, by being present on the surface of the sphere at this time and place in space?
Do you think it is possible that a group of observers in the moving frame can observe this same sphere at the same time and place in space?
Do you see that during the time the sphere expanded to this size, the whole moving frame including the origin has separated from the source origin in the source frame?
This will make the coordinates of these observers as related to the moving frame origin very different from the coordinates in the source frame, relative to the source origin. These results are contrary to the Voigt, or Galilean "transform," the later being a genuine example of a "cock up."
I realize that this short discussion does not answer your justified inquiry. I am just trying to understand your reasoning as well as explain mine. More to come if you are interested. (I appreciate being shown folly in my reasoning, by the way.)
Incidentally, I sense that I am being grouped with the consensus relativists. If that be the case then I am offended. On second thought; just annoyed.
I sense a disturbance in the farce.