Question, why steadystate is liked over spontaneous creation

[JaJa]

So the highly respected Stephen Hawking is a magician

Actually, he's a mathemagician. But "theoretical physicist" has a more credible ring to it.

[Goldminer]

At the present; panspermia and pan-other forms of life-, have more going for them than evolution.

Electricity can be created/generated when plasma moves, but what causes plasma to move?

This is the WCF question. [Which Came First?] Both electric and magnetic forces act on plasma. Plasma is self organizing. That is how it got its name. It is life like. Once plasma filaments form they attract additional Ions to themselves, thus rarefying their surroundings. They become self illuminating. That is why/how we see the evidence of their existence on the Sun, between stars, and both intra and extra galactically. They conduct energy. Your question is really: Where does the energy come from? That is an important question that remains and deserves to be answered. Just because we don't have an answer does not remove the evidence! The Electric Universe Paradigmists have every right to speculate as do the Big Bangers. Both sides accuse the other of dogmatic religious fanaticism. IMVHO, [In My Very Humbled Opinion] the EUPs have the logic and evidence over the BBs.

I support freedom of religion, as long as yours doesn't interfere with my rights and existence. Which brings up the subject of why should my wealth be taxed/stolen from me for support of other's dogmatic religious beliefs? I oppose the forced separation of money from those who do not support the religious beliefs of others for the other's benefit.

[JaJa]

Hi Goldminer

I think evolution sucks personally. We might not look like apes anymore but we still behave like them, how, where and when has the human psyche evolved?

At least my question was not a WTF question

I understand plasma is self organising. Does that mean, considering 99.999% of the universe is in a plasma state that a very long time ago, for whatever reason, plasma slowly began to assemble itself into human beings and everything that we can now see?

The Electric Universe Paradigmists have every right to speculate as do the Big Bangers. Both sides accuse the other of dogmatic religious fanaticism. IMVHO, [In My Very Humbled Opinion] the EUPs have the logic and evidence over the BBs.

Well... I'm not a Big Banger and I don't know enough about the EU to join the rebel forces so I'll observe from the fence and ask loads of annoying questions if that's okay. It's apparent that we have a body electric and seems logical to me that the "outside" is basically following the same principles as the "inside" just at many orders of magnitude up the scale.

I support freedom of religion, as long as yours doesn't interfere with my rights and existence

Not sure why religion has been dragged into the mire, or are you referring to cosmology

Which brings up the subject of why should my wealth be taxed/stolen from me for support of other's dogmatic religious beliefs? I oppose the forced separation of money from those who do not support the religious beliefs of others for the other's benefit.

I wish I had wealth to be stolen... but I'm a student. Plus I don't think that applies to religion or cosmology as isolated incidents - here in the UK politicians were stealing from the tax payer to have their moats cleaned and pay members of their family for work they never actually did...

JJ

[Goldminer]

Hi JJ,
I am not sure how to operate the Quote feature on this forum, so I'll just copy your whole response to my recent post. I appreciate your thoughts!

JJ: "Hi Goldminer"

JJ "I think evolution sucks personally. We might not look like apes anymore but we still behave like them, how, where and when has the human psyche evolved?"

Goldminer: Evidence of fossil human foot prints in the fossil dinosaurian mud footprints located in Texas, and Giant 30 foot tall fossil humanoid skeletons lead me to think that evolutionists have much more to explain than they admit. Let's not be too inclusive as to apply the behavior of some to the whole lot of us!

JJ: "At least my question was not a WTF question "

Goldminer: Indeed!

JJ: "I understand plasma is self organizing [I took liberty in changing your English "s" to an American "z," sorry.] Does that mean, considering 99.999% of the universe is in a plasma state that a very long time ago, for whatever reason, plasma slowly began to assemble itself into human beings and everything that we can now see?"

Goldminer: I have no problem with your scenario, except as to the speed at which it was done. If the Universe is infinitely old, and an omnipresent superior being, also of infinite age, within or without it exists to exert His will, He would have plenty of time to figure the rules out, or set them down. Then what use would the rules be if He didn't abide by them? [pronoun used without meaning of specific gender/sex, if only to appear/appease politically correct] I see too much evidence of intelligent design.

Previously Goldminer said: "The Electric Universe Paradigmists have every right to speculate as do the Big Bangers. Both sides accuse the other of dogmatic religious fanaticism. IMVHO, [In My Very Humbled Opinion] the EUPs have the logic and evidence over the BBs."

JJ: "Well... I'm not a Big Banger and I don't know enough about the EU to join the rebel forces so I'll observe from the fence and ask loads of annoying questions if that's okay. It's apparent that we have a body electric and seems logical to me that the "outside" is basically following the same principles as the "inside" just at many orders of magnitude up the scale."

Goldminer: "loads of annoying questions if that's okay." You don't need to ask permission in order to question! Without questions, this forum would loose its main purpose. If anyone ignores civil intelligent feedback, they are the ones deserving disdain. Body electric . . . Logical . . .Scale . . . I might add: vibration and harmonics to the mix.

Previously Goldminer said: "I support freedom of religion, as long as yours doesn't interfere with my rights and existence"

JJ: "Not sure why religion has been dragged into the mire, or are you referring to cosmology "

Goldminer: I feel that mainstream cosmology has become a religion, with apologists making up new fictions to "explain" their inability to observe the evidence all around them.

Previously Goldminer said: "Which brings up the subject of why should my wealth be taxed/stolen from me for support of other's dogmatic religious beliefs? I oppose the forced separation of money from those who do not support the religious beliefs of others for the other's benefit."

JJ: "I wish I had wealth to be stolen... but I'm a student. Plus I don't think that applies to religion or cosmology as isolated incidents - here in the UK politicians were stealing from the tax payer to have their moats cleaned and pay members of their family for work they never actually did... "

Goldminer: I too, wish I had wealth to be stolen. I am an old (65 years of producing CO2) student myself. However, I am jaundiced (a polite word meaning "pissed off") about what little I have being forcefully "shared" for graft, corruption, and promotion of immoral principles.

JJ

JJ: "Lawless are they that make their wills their law" William Shakespeare

Goldminer: "Wills" meaning "lording it over others" rather than "last will and testament."

JJ: "Sometimes questions are more important than answers" Nancy Willard

Goldminer: Properly set questions are always important, Meaningless answers are less than useless, therefore question everything.

[davesmith_au]

Hi JJ,
I am not sure how to operate the Quote feature on this forum,

Here's the quick tutorial:

Code: Select all

[quote]Jibber jabber jibber jabber[/quote]

gives

Jibber jabber jibber jabber

Code: Select all

[quote="Joe Bloggs"]Jibber jabber jibber jabber[/quote]

gives

Jibber jabber jibber jabber

Note: always remember to use quotation marks either side of the person's name when using the quote= code.

Cheers, Dave.

[JaJa]

Hi Goldminer

We'll probably be ushered into the mad ideas section for this...

Evidence of fossil human foot prints in the fossil dinosaurian mud footprints located in Texas, and Giant 30 foot tall fossil humanoid skeletons lead me to think that evolutionists have much more to explain than they admit.

What are your thoughts on the giant that was apparently unearthed in County Antrim, Ireland around 1895? It was said to be 12ft 2in high and put on display in Dublin, Liverpool and Manchester?

Goldminer: I have no problem with your scenario, except as to the speed at which it was done. If the Universe is infinitely old, and an omnipresent superior being, also of infinite age, within or without it exists to exert His will, He would have plenty of time to figure the rules out, or set them down. Then what use would the rules be if He didn't abide by them?

... an infinitely powerful being would have no limitation. Old and age is meaningless, as is Time. Placing one-self at the mercy of boundaries might be frustrating but it would be intriguing to experience finite weaknesses instead of infinite powers, albeit for a fleeting glimpse. It would have to be a very convincing and believable experience though...

Body electric . . . Logical . . .Scale . . . I might add: vibration and harmonics to the mix.

What is the cause of the vibration do you think?

"Wills" meaning "lording it over others" rather than "last will and testament."

Yea something like that.

JJ

[jjohnson]

Ryujin, you might enjoy reading this arXiv paper by an australian astronomor in favour of a steady-state Universe.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1009.0953v2

Jim

[altonhare]

Fundamental identities/characteristics? Why would fundamental "stuff" require identity

Identity just means it is what it is. It moves and behaves in a particular way in particular circumstances. It cannot, for instance, behave in one way in a particular situation and then, when that exact same situation arises again, behave differently.

, also what causes the movement of constituent parts?

Since we cannot get something from nothing, motion from non-motion, then we must conclude that these parts have always been moving. They may slow down, speed up, or move in other various ways due to their particular circumstances and relationships to each other, but they have always been moving.

[JaJa]

Thanx Altonhare

Identity just means it is what it is. It moves and behaves in a particular way in particular circumstances. It cannot, for instance, behave in one way in a particular situation and then, when that exact same situation arises again, behave differently

I'm not sure that's a fair application to even inanimate objects - doesn't that depend upon environment

Since we cannot get something from nothing, motion from non-motion, then we must conclude that these parts have always been moving. They may slow down, speed up, or move in other various ways due to their particular circumstances and relationships to each other, but they have always been moving.

Yes I thought as much - so the "mainstream" application of a singularity may be right (in a very broad sense) in that there has always been "heat" but not necessarily tied up in some tiny point that expanded.

JJ

[JaJa]

Altonhare

I'm not sure that's a fair application to even inanimate objects - doesn't that depend upon environment

Forget I said that... I just read your explanation again

JJ

[Goldminer]

Jaja wrote:

What is the cause of the vibration do you think?

I think it has to do with the wave nature of everything, from the nuclear structure on up to the whole Universe. You've heard of the "harmony of the stars" or something like that? Harmony, harmonics, vibration, rotation, cycles. I think the dynamics are equally or more important than the physical structures of matter and energy (if energy can be imagined to have structure)

Just because the Universe itself is eternal doesn't mean the objects and structures within it are, and even the nebulous Big Bang imagines some sort of pre bang "space." There may still be a great . . . grandmother galaxy somewhere, or not. The present visible Universe is likely much smaller and more or less static rather than "expanding" in the Big Bang sense. The birth of new galaxies may defy the entropy theory, or maybe they are born to absorb the "waste heat" of existing ever increasing entropy. Anyway, the Electric Universe paradigm opens the door for a whole lot more logical exploration, as opposed to dreaming up new fantasies.

[Goldminer]

These forums are fun, but sometimes the original topic becomes unrecognizable. That Goldminer fella is probably one of the guilty perpetrators of the wandering. Anyway, I doubt that "steadystate" precludes "matter coming out of nowhere." Halton Arp's conjecture that "active galaxies" give birth to QUASAR's and B Lac objects, which over time grow up to become new conventional galaxies might lead one to conclude that matter has come from nowhere. Well, the conjecture is that it came from the nucleus of the mother galaxy, but how then did the nucleus contain the additional matter that it expelled? Why hasn't the mother galaxy lost weight over the birth?

Now that we know (I know, the rest of you can doubt) that QUASARs are not the oldest and most distant objects in the Universe, I think it more productive and exciting to try and figure out how this can happen with what we know at this time, rather than invent forces and effects that belong in fiction novels.

[upriver]

Observational evidence favours a static universe
David F. Crawford
(Submitted on 5 Sep 2010 (v1), last revised 25 Nov 2010 (this version, v2))

The common attribute of all Big Bang cosmologies is that they are based on the assumption that the universe is expanding. However examination of the evidence for this expansion clearly favours a static universe. The major topics considered are: Tolman surface brightness, angular size, type 1a supernovae, gamma ray bursts, galaxy distributions, quasar distributions, X-ray background radiation, cosmic microwave background radiation, radio source counts, quasar variability and the Butcher--Oemler effect. An analysis of the best raw data for these topics shows that they are consistent with expansion only if there is evolution that cancels the effects of expansion. An alternate cosmology, curvature cosmology, is in full agreement with the raw data. This tired-light cosmology predicts a well defined static and stable universe and is fully described. It not only predicts accurate values for the Hubble constant and the temperature of cosmic microwave background radiation but shows excellent agreement with most of the topics considered. Curvature cosmology also predicts the deficiency in solar neutrino production rate and can explain the anomalous acceleration of {\it Pioneer} 10.

Comments: Accepted by Journal of Cosmology: 90 pages, 6 figures
Subjects: General Physics (physics.gen-ph); Cosmology and Extragalactic Astrophysics (astro-ph.CO)
Cite as: arXiv:1009.0953v2 [physics.gen-ph]
http://arxiv.org/abs/1009.0953

[Goldminer]

Halton Arp concludes that mother galaxies birth new galaxies as they eject quasi stellar matter, such as QUASARs and B Lac objects that eventually resolve into conventional galaxies. This is not exactly "steady state." It does explain the clumpy-ness and stringy-ness of the Universe. It is definitely not the Big Bang Theory. It might acquire the slang words of "little bang," or "bangity bang." He equates the age of galactic objects to their redshift. The younger they are the more redshift they have, the older they are the more blueshift they have. Consensus astronomers write of galactic collisions, but nowhere that I know of, [which is of course saying quite a lot . . .] do they refer to galaxies becoming decomposed. Where do they go? Do they just wait around for the "Gnab Gib?" [Big Bang backwards]