LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

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crawler
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LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by crawler » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:41 pm

If a quadrupolar gravity wave affects the length of a LIGO arm & the length of a LIGO's laser wave equally, then how do LIGO get interference?
I think i know what LIGO reckon, & it smells fishy, but i wonder what u fellows think.

crawler
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by crawler » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:14 pm

Here from Miles' article is what Ligo says about how the detector detects gravity waves.
http://milesmathis.com/liego.pdf

Source: Ligo Scientific Collaboration, Scientific American.
How the Ligo system works.
1. A single laser beam is split and directed down two identical tubes, 4 km long. (Dia shows the 2 arms & detector building).
2. Mirrors reflect the twin beams back to a detector.
3. Back inside the detector, the laser beams arrive perfectly aligned.
4. Recombined, they cancel each other out.
No light is detected. (Dia of 2 sets of waves 180 deg out of phase)(Dia of resulting flat line).
Detecting gravity waves.
1. When spacetime is distorted by a gravity wave, the two tubes change length. One tube stretches as the other contracts over and over until the wave has passed. (Dia shows the 2 arms).
2. As the distances fluctuate the peaks and troughs of the two returning laser beams move in and out of alignment.
3. The recombined waves no longer cancel each other out. Light reaches the detector and the gravity wave can be measured.
Light is detected. (Dia of 2 sets of waves out of phase & one has longer waves)(Dia of combined wave which has large varying amplitudes & large varying wave lengths).

crawler
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by crawler » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:08 pm

The above explanation has been simplified for public consumption, but some bits are just too silly to let go by.

Ligo said that the 2 tubes change length.
This would make it an ordinary MMX, used for detecting a change in the kmps of the aetherwind. But a proper MMX needs gas not vacuum.
With gas in the tubes Ligo would-could be what we can call a 2nd order MMX, detecting 2nd order fringeshifts (which are weak).
With vacuum in the tubes Ligo is or can be a 3rd order MMX, detecting 3rd order fringeshifts (which are very weak).
However Ligo's mirrors hang, they are not horizontally fixed, hencely Ligo cant be an MMX of any kind. If a tube changes length the hanging mirrors would not respond in good time (at least not at 100 Hz).

Anyhow Ligo do not claim to be an MMX, & they dont want to be an MMX, because an MMX would detect changes in the kmps of the aetherwind.
Anyhow if Ligo were an MMX it would be a fixed MMX, ie rotating with the Earth, ie 1 rev per sidereal day. The resulting MMX fringeshift would be at say 1/86,400 Hz, nowhere near the target GW fringeshift of 100 Hz. Hencely Ligo are not worried about the MMX aetherwind ruining or complicating their GW results. [ACTUALLY AN MMX SIGNAL IS PERIODIC IN A HALF TURN HENCELY WOULD BE 1/43,200 Hz].

The main problem with Ligo's explanation that the 2 tubes change length is that this would result in a flat line for their GW signal. Because if the tubes change length then the laser beam must also change wavelength by the same proportion. Resulting in zero GW fringeshift.

No, the Ligo public consumption explanation is horrid.
I think i know Ligo's proper explanation (ie the critical bit), but what do u fellows reckon is the critical bit.

Webbman
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by Webbman » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:41 am

i think what they are working on there has nothing to do with gravity waves.
its all lies.

crawler
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by crawler » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:00 am

Webbman wrote:i think what they are working on there has nothing to do with gravity waves.
Yes but my question is re what is Ligo's theory re how they get a signal from a QGW, not whether Ligo's theory is right or wrong (it is wrong) or whether Einsteinian QGWs exist (they dont).

The answer to my question is i think not known to many of us. The answer is the opposite of their public consumption explanation. The answer is that the tubes do not stretch & contract. Note that they said that the tubes stretch & contract.

Part 1 of the answer is that the tubes dont stretch & contract, but that the distance tween the hanging mirrors does stretch & contract.

Part 2 of the answer is that the laser itself doesnt stretch or contract, in which case the laser wavelength doesnt stretch or contract. The reason is that solids resist such stretching & contracting, whilst space does not resist. When they say resist they must of course mean that solids stretch & contract a little, depending on how stiff the solid is.

When i say they say i am referring to a paper by a scientist who i think had some kind of roll in Ligo in the early days.

So, the whole Ligo thing rests entirely on the above silly theory.
Apart from all of the other silly theories.

Cargo
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by Cargo » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:58 pm

spacetime is distorted by a gravity wave
The Bias is set. Results guaranteed. After all, it can only be gravity and space time. The infinite, divided by zero.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

crawler
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by crawler » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:03 am

Cargo wrote:
spacetime is distorted by a gravity wave
The Bias is set. Results guaranteed. After all, it can only be gravity and space time. The infinite, divided by zero.
Yes, but that bias is well known, the more fanciful bias is that gravity & spacetime stretch & contract space, but do not much contract solids, because supposedly solids resist. How stupid is that?

Aetherists, Lorentzians, believe that the aetherwind stretches & contracts solids, but does not affect space. The exact opposite of silly Einsteinologists. Go figure.

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Zyxzevn
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:04 pm

crawler wrote:.. my question is re what is Ligo's theory re how they get a signal from a QGW, not whether Ligo's theory is right or wrong (it is wrong) or whether Einsteinian QGWs exist...
Einstein models gravity as an acceleration that spreads out with the speed of light.
The speed causes a delay, which may cause waves when heavy objects rotate around each other.
This is very important for Einstein's theory as it also causes the objects to fall slowly towards each other.
(Something that has never been observed).

Acceleration is d²X/dt² where X is also a direction.
With waves (d³X/dt³) the direction is oriented differently.

So the idea is that the waves give an difference in the acceleration between two arms of the LIGO.
And that this difference can be large enough to be measured.
In theory, this large difference can only be caused by black holes or neutron stars.
They think they can identify them very accurately with a Chirp kind of signal.

The LIGO can also receive EM-waves and is very sensitive
to ground movements. Because EM-waves in space often have Chirp characteristics,
and because magnetic shielding is absent, the LIGO is very likely detecting those.

The signal processing and analysis is done by students and amateurs.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

crawler
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by crawler » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:25 am

Zyxzevn wrote:
crawler wrote:.. my question is re what is Ligo's theory re how they get a signal from a QGW, not whether Ligo's theory is right or wrong (it is wrong) or whether Einsteinian QGWs exist...
Einstein models gravity as an acceleration that spreads out with the speed of light.
The speed causes a delay, which may cause waves when heavy objects rotate around each other.
This is very important for Einstein's theory as it also causes the objects to fall slowly towards each other.
(Something that has never been observed).

Acceleration is d²X/dt² where X is also a direction.
With waves (d³X/dt³) the direction is oriented differently.

So the idea is that the waves give an difference in the acceleration between two arms of the LIGO.
And that this difference can be large enough to be measured.
In theory, this large difference can only be caused by black holes or neutron stars.
They think they can identify them very accurately with a Chirp kind of signal.
Yes, but how do Ligo think they can identify the signal? The accelerations or stretchings or whatever in each arm are likely to affect the tubes lasers laser-beams & laser-waves equally. So my question is what kind of postulate do Ligo adopt that says that the accelerations or stretchings or whatever do not equally affect the tubes lasers laser-beams & laser-waves equally. And i have given what i think is their postulate, it is that solids resist stretching & contraction, hencely the laser emits a constant wavelength at all times (very nearly)(resists implying that there is a little bit of stretching & contraction).
Zyxzevn wrote:The LIGO can also receive EM-waves and is very sensitive
to ground movements. Because EM-waves in space often have Chirp characteristics, and because magnetic shielding is absent, the LIGO is very likely detecting those.
The signal processing and analysis is done by students and amateurs.
I am thinking that the tubes are metal & provide shielding to all of the internals, ie from em radiation. But i dont know if the detector house is fully shielded. But i think u mean that the tubes do not provide shielding to the tubes, & i agree (alltho i dont know what kind of problem might arise).

However this reminds me that science has almost zero knowledge of the nature of em radiation. Science thinks that em radiation is photons & photons is em radiation. No they aint.
Anyhow i dont know how em radiation can give a signal of any kind at Ligo. Does em radiation stretch or contract anything at Ligo?
Does em radiation slow a laser-beam at Ligo?

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Zyxzevn
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:44 am

crawler wrote: am thinking that the tubes are metal & provide shielding to all of the internals, ie from em radiation.
Shielding is aluminium, which allows the passing through of magnetic fields.
EM-waves have a magnetic component. I think only the lower frequency waves and certain
polarizations pass through. This needs be tested.
A lot can be shielded, but magnetic fields are very difficult to get rid of.

But for reference.
Just look at the signal to noise ratio that is in their system.
With other non-cyclic signal-processing algorithms I could not get any signals out.
Likely their algorithm and "corrections" causes signals as well.
They only look at statistical disturbances.
That can not capture the events that they talk about.
Which is why I call them amateurs.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

crawler
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Re: LIGO's chirp -- how seen?

Unread post by crawler » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:23 am

Zyxzevn wrote:
crawler wrote: am thinking that the tubes are metal & provide shielding to all of the internals, ie from em radiation.
Shielding is aluminium, which allows the passing through of magnetic fields.
EM-waves have a magnetic component. I think only the lower frequency waves and certain
polarizations pass through. This needs be tested.
A lot can be shielded, but magnetic fields are very difficult to get rid of.

But for reference.
Just look at the signal to noise ratio that is in their system.
With other non-cyclic signal-processing algorithms I could not get any signals out.
Likely their algorithm and "corrections" causes signals as well.
They only look at statistical disturbances.
That can not capture the events that they talk about.
Which is why I call them amateurs.
I didnt know about aluminium (i aint a scientist). But any e or m radiation would have to have a chirplike signal before it gets to Ligo, to cause any problems for Ligo. And anyhow i still dont know how an e or m could give a signal inside Ligo. Praps a slowing of the speed of the laser light in one arm compared to the other arm. However Ligo must surely have an em detector looking out for an em chirp.

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