Simple Games for Science

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Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:05 pm

Why don't TB forum members want to have fun?

Let me persuade you to have fun here. Here's why you should participate in this thread. Because it's an educational game and games are fun and you need fun (& some education) in order to survive.

Now that you're persuaded, here are the RULES:

Reply. Then we can decide on RULES.
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 pm

Okay, I invited several members here, so hopefully some will have time & interest to join in the fun. Is it fun yet?

Let's start by saying what are a few of the kinds of games each of us likes the most.

I kind of like Pictionary, where someone gets a word from a card and draws a picture and their partner has to guess the word from the picture within a short amount of time.

I think I'd like most games if the rules were modified to make them educational.

So what games do you all like and would you like such games if they were educational? What about video games? I don't see those any more.
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby kodybatill » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:48 pm

You know what! I actually have some scientific games I have already developed for my personal Family Book. There are 8 of them - where the first 4 represent forces of Plasma.

Game 1: As many green colors around opposites at as many 90 degrees to white colors around opposites - as possible. This causes all colors to become brighter, and to start to show fluid dynamics for plasma in large and small numbers, depending how many 90 degree intersections are used.

Game 2: Resonance. Causing electron neutrinos/first generation silicon - to touch 7+1 different types of carbon elements through infra-red touching game 1 and the carbon - and then touching Silicon isotopes. This is pressure dynamics for plasma, and on different scales, creates different notes, even sometimes inaudible to the human ear - but when singing and coming close to some of the resonances of this game - causes an effect, possibly different for each tone.

Game 3: Memory. Inert gases found in large quantities within Muonic Hydrogen - which when touching all previous games, causes them all to become visible at once. This is inertia/temperature/Mass dynamics for plasma.

Game 4: Path of least resistance. Inert Gas Solids. Any inert gas that has touched every one of these steps and caused it to take ALL colors around opposites or positrons, instead of only taking some. But this is only capable of happening in the presence of UV light, or original purple positrons. This is thought dynamics - and is a game of using the speed of one's thinking to determine all of the best places and conditions for this to happen in - which can even take years of searching.

These are the first 4 games of 8 I have developed for understanding Plasma, amongst other forces. Hope you all enjoy!!!!
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Webbman » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:55 am

real or false game.

since what's real is often clouded by many false things, an exercise looking into this would be appropriate for any scientist.

how often does a scientific concept show up in a Hollywood movie or other "mainstream" media?
can this concept be measured directly or at all?
does this concept take credit for things that were invented before it was?


many questions can be asked, but I believe that a scientist, more than a study of physical world, is a study of the truth and the only way to know the truth is to be able to discern what is actually truth and what is lies. To do this you must first study the nature of the lies and for many just to admit that there are lies is a big first step.
The secret to the universe is a rubber band.
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:30 am

Thanks for helping out, folks.

SIMULATION?
Kody, are your games like simulations for plasma effects? If you have a picture of any of your games, maybe you could post it and explain it. Have you played any of the games yet with anyone? If so, did anyone or everyone enjoy it?

I'm not clear on what the 90 degree angles refer to, but I think those angles result in maximum repulsion for like charges when an unlike charge is at the vertex. When the like charges are at 180 degrees with respect to the unlike charge at the vertex, then the repulsion is minimal and there's a quasi-attraction, because of the unlike charge between them. Charles Chandler has figured out that intragalactic filaments form in that way, so that there are strings of positive and negative charges, like this: -+-+-+-+-. Such strings could get very long and adjacent strings would attract to each other like wires or threads side-by-side.

REAL-UNREAL
Webbman, can you explain how to play your game? Have you tried it with anyone before?

Can we try an example? Is continental drift real or unreal? If it's unreal, what is real in its place?

Or would some other real/unreal question be more fun for you?
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby kodybatill » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:31 pm

Lloyd wrote:Thanks for helping out, folks.

SIMULATION?
Kody, are your games like simulations for plasma effects? If you have a picture of any of your games, maybe you could post it and explain it. Have you played any of the games yet with anyone? If so, did anyone or everyone enjoy it?

I'm not clear on what the 90 degree angles refer to, but I think those angles result in maximum repulsion for like charges when an unlike charge is at the vertex. When the like charges are at 180 degrees with respect to the unlike charge at the vertex, then the repulsion is minimal and there's a quasi-attraction, because of the unlike charge between them. Charles Chandler has figured out that intragalactic filaments form in that way, so that there are strings of positive and negative charges, like this: -+-+-+-+-. Such strings could get very long and adjacent strings would attract to each other like wires or threads side-by-side.

REAL-UNREAL
Webbman, can you explain how to play your game? Have you tried it with anyone before?

Can we try an example? Is continental drift real or unreal? If it's unreal, what is real in its place?

Or would some other real/unreal question be more fun for you?


These are simulations of components of plasma.

I believe you have succeeded in understanding Game 1. I am not sure why, but when white positrons and green positrons or colors around opposites are at many 90 degrees to each other, all positrons or colors around opposites become brighter. This would be the pre requirement for plasma to even exist. This can also be done with green positrons at 90 degrees to electron neutrinos which naturally always have white positrons - As well as when Hydrogen/Sodium type elements are at 90 degrees to the white positrons/electron neutrinos/or first generation silicon. I do not know why this happens - but possibly because these types of green positrons take electron neutrinos, while white positrons simulate electron neutrinos.
This game could even simply be jotting down on a piece of paper, white lines and green lines at 90 degrees to each other - where on a piece of paper like this, it would represent electrical information - while this same game only in 3D, would represent all electron, neutron, and proton information - all for measuring exact numbers of intersections and exact placements and angles needed for a given particle and ray trajectory to be plotted, before the plasma can even exist. There is a little more to it as well, like how certain combinations of 28 distinct different positrons or colors around opposites can be used to make different types of these white and green lines, producing all the different requirements for all of the different plasmas. This is kinda like the Magic Eye game Books for kids, or other optical illusions.

I do not have pictures or testimonies of these games. I have been too busy completing my family book - but each one of the games can probably be confirmed by applying them.

Game 2 or resonance is the nature of plasma, or a way to learn what plasma will do, before it happens, especially if one unit of this, Game 2 - Can fit within the space of one unit of game 1. I don't know why but when first generation silicon/electron neutrinos are caused by infra red to touch game 1 AND carbon at once, creates Carbon isotopes similar to Graphene - and then when these touch second generation silicon information, even in space around, and then returns to the original electron neutrino/first generation silicon, creates a noise that when touched for a certain amount of time afterwards by a similar tone, causes unique effects in the area.

Game 3 or Memory is simply a way to remember how Game 1 begins and Game 2 ends - and what each type of plasma will do in-between these points once under the influence of all factors at once - which when touching the last 2 games and making all 3 of the games become visible as one whole - means that the plasma was able to run it's complete program without being stopped - but when these forces do not become visible when touching each-other, means that another force has interjected an energy that is unusual and possibly more important in that space and time when regarding these games - as part of the game. This also is the point when people start to realize that some spots are better than others for certain things, like finding enough Muonic Hydrogen and it's trajectories.

Game 4 or the path of least resistance is the precursor or fuel of what later stops Plasma from being in a place where it shouldn't be - and is exactly as I mentioned in my first post on this thread - and it requires mastering the being in the right place at the right time, in order to cause captured Inert Gases to take samples of all possible positrons from the last 3 steps, and possibly even this 4th step. I believe to have the entire successful outcome of this game, learning what is needed at any place or time to make these inert gas solid components - but it is much more fun and rewarding discovering it for one's self - and the key hint to start it is that UV or original purple positrons must be present. This game is meant to take a while, but is not ruined if telling a person the answer.
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:48 pm

Kody, I guess your game could be called Plasma Simulation or something. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to play the game with several people and ask them how fun it was on a scale of 0 to 10. And write simple instructions for how to play it and what game pieces are needed. This post will not self-destruct in 5 seconds, as I'm crossing my fingers.

VOLUNTEERS NEEDED FOR A GAME (on Saturday at Noon ET?)
I want to start simple and progress from there.
Players: 2 or more people
Rules: Players take turns in alphabetical order.
Step 1. The first person asks the second one what branch of science to discuss.
Step 2. The second person answers and picks a word from that branch of science and asks everyone to write a sentence using that word. When all are finished writing, the second person gives a point to everyone who used the word correctly.
Step 3. The second person asks the third person the same question asked in Step 1.
Step 4. The third person does what the second person did in Step 2.
And so on.
The first person to get 10 points wins.
Next step is to make the rules better for the next game.
This game can be played on this etherpad: https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/p35j9FwYWy
Can anyone play on Saturday at noon Eastern Time, 9AM Pacific Time?
Or what other day or time is favored?

(In the mean time, we can discuss other game ideas.)
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:23 pm

Lloyd says,
Okay, I invited several members here, so hopefully some will have time & interest to join in the fun. Is it fun yet?

Let's start by saying what are a few of the kinds of games each of us likes the most.

I kind of like Pictionary, where someone gets a word from a card and draws a picture and their partner has to guess the word from the picture within a short amount of time.


Hi Lloyd, I came by to see what you meant by educational science games.

Actually, probably a lot of us do think that rational criticism applied to well established theories (or alternative theories) is fun, both to engage in and to watch. So you see we really are fun people.

An argument between two or more opposing perspectives can be more educational than a single author presenting his own work in a book. It's just that time limitations, structure and remaining on one topic are important and not always realistic in a thread format.

So I suppose a debate which you could actually win or lose in a reasonable amount of time would be fun.

It is always nice to hear from you Lloyd. I wanted to say hello.
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby fractal-geoff » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:15 am

Hi Lloyd & group
Re Games for science; I don’t know if this is use to you, but I play a game of ‘what ifs’
If nothing else I hope you find my little story amusing
So… I am an alternative theorist offering an Idea parallel but different in key points to ‘standard EU’
I’m currently trying to produce a book about it but that’s probably not relevant.

So… I’ve been playing this game of ‘what if’ as long as I can remember and I guess the rules evolved along the way.
I use it as a learning aid to give myself a depth of understanding, often with insights.
It’s fairly simple, one idea gets played off against another; analogies, jargon, theories, math - all fair game.
It evolved towards this area of ‘paradigm shift logics’ (I found them more fun)
Being EU you’ll all know the term but just so we’re on the same page: Offering alternative solutions to ‘standard observations and results’
The game allows you to play both the conventionalist and the heretic sides and is really only limited by imagination and the ability to find the facts for the ferreted out arguments.
A game needs a board and a start point and then you let the logic debates begin, score up winning and losing arguments. Support affirmations +5 points, any breach against testable minus 1000 points (Brutal scoring)

So I found a really foundation level idea upon which mega amounts of our society’s beliefs have a logic base; created a paradigm shift question and then followed the logics… Explorers map…
Did the universe have a start or is it infinite in distance and age?
Which one does testable science support?
Conservation of energy or ‘true creation & destruction’?
This logic path doesn’t have star fuel or fundamental bits to make matter coming from a beginning fully charged. Even affects perceptions of electricity…

The finite universe scenario has been used by our society …forever…. Its been theorised about from every angle imaginable. The infinite universe scenario is like the anti-bible version of science.
There aren’t any alternative infinite universe scenarios in our conventional teachings - un-discussable blind-spot- The Universe is undoubtedly electromagnetic in nature but most peoples perception of electricity involves old logics with equal & opposite fundamental particles P&N (Charged up from a start day?)

I keep fairly quiet about the results of this game because it ‘voids my local work place warranty’ but a site like TB/EU; could probably make use of some of the developed tools where physics contradicts society belief…?

I used the term Explorers map; if you alter something in base logics it cascades through successive logics.
This map translates across into quiz questions relatively easily.
By asking the right questions you can point at a blind spot, cause awareness and possibly confront it?
It can assist to refine a theory e.g. does EU state ‘our theory is based upon a start or not’, the electricity came from… the nature of electricity is… maybe I’m OCD but I seek those bits in a theory. (Of course I’m bias:-)

Automated quiz’s giving automated scores, where the objective is to stay in positive numbers- could be fun?
I’ve got a selection of questions that are right little monsters and I’m sure most of the rest of you do to.

Whatever the game; ‘who is your target’ the old farts of the forum or the young open minds that will make the next generation.
The EU concepts are in conflict with convention even if played down - and will be for a long while.
I expect this site to become huge in the next few years, formats and audience to change.
TB/EU is already putting out exceptional videos and articles and dedicated people behind it all.
The forums here are better than all others I visit. Chasing ideas here is fun already.
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:43 pm

Lloyd says, "Saturday" etc.

I am sorry I cannot make it to your event. Three major projects in the works right now and it is already September.

Also, if any one is looking for science games and lab sets, I like xUmp.com
I am actually looking for a card game or something to help the kids remember their periodic table and have fun.

PS Also, belated congratulations to Steven Smith for his ten year anniversary. He really is amazing. He is possibly one of the best discoveries of the Electric Universe. (: I have benefited so much from having his fine science writing to read every week day morning.
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:14 pm

What-If
Fractal-Geoff, are you able to play your What-If game with others? Or is it like Solitaire? Have you played it with others? If so, how do people like it? If not, your mission, bla bla bla, is to play it with someone and see how they like it. And report back here. Si?

Hi "Brigit".
Thanks for the info. It so happens I started trying to make a game for learning the chemical elements at least by 2005. I did just the first 100 elements and I divided them into pairs and gave each pair nicknames that are similar to the elements names. See below. I hadn't thought of a card game, but now that you mention it, it seems like it would work nicely as follows.

Elements Card Game
Make 50 cards with pairs of numbers on the back and pairs of element nicknames & numbers on front.
Someone say the pairs of numbers and nicknames so everyone sees and hears them all.
Then lay all the cards face down so the numbers are visible, but not the nicknames.
Each player take turns; first point to and say the numbers on the back of a card and then try to recall the nicknames on the front. After each guess, the card is turned over and if the guess was right, the player gets to take the card and guess another card. The player continues to guess nicknames until he/she guesses wrong, then the next player takes a turn. And so on until everyone gets a turn or until all of the cards have been guessed. (For a shorter game, the players could use part of the deck instead of the whole deck.)

Here are the numbers and nicknames for each card. Explain any nickname words that anyone doesn't know. Some are misspelled so as to resemble the element name.
1,2 Hi-Heel
3,4 Litter-Barrel
5,6 Boring-Car
7,8 Nite-Ox
9,10 Floor-Neon

11,12 Soda-Magnets
13,14 Aluminum-Sill
15,16 Fox-Surfer
17,18 Chlorine-Airgun
19,20 PotOf-Calcium

21,22 Scanned-Tites
23,24 Van-Chrome
25,26 Mangled-Iron
27,28 Cold-Nickel
29,30 Copper-Sink

31,32 Galley-Geranium
33,34 Arctic-Seal
35,36 Broom-Krypton
37,38 Ruby-Straw
39,40 Its-Zircon

41,42 Nice-Mole
43,44 Tech-Rut
45,46 Road-Pal
47,48 Silver-Cat
49,50 Indian-Tin

51,52 AntMoney-Tiller
53,54 Hio-Xena
55,56 Seas-Berry
57,58 Lance-Cereal
59,60 Preys-NewDime

61,62 Prom-Samarai
63,64 Euro-Gad
65,66 Turban-Dish
67,68 Home-Herb
69,70 Thumb-Eater

71,72 Lute-HalfNumber
73,74 Tan-Tung
75,76 Rent-Oz
77,78 EarDrum-Platter
79,80 Gold-Marker

81,82 Tall-Lead
83,84 BeesMoth-Pole
85,86 Aster-Raydown
87,88 Fancy-Radio
89,90 Acting-Thorny

91,92 Protected-Uranium
93,94 Inept-Plutarch
95,96 American-Curry
97,98 Burly-Calf
99,100 Einsteins-Fir

After players learn the nicknames that go with each number, the element symbols can be added to each card on the face side. And the players can play the same game guessing the chemical symbols. After the symbols are learned, the pairs of element names can be added to each card on the face side. And the players can play the game guessing the full names of elements.

Here are the Element Symbols & Names. I may need to check for errors.
H _ He _ Hydrogen _ Helium
Li _ Be _ Lithium _ Beryllium
B _ C _ Boron _ Carbon
N _ O _ Nitrogen _ Oxygen
F _ Ne _ Fluorine _ Neon

Na _ Mg _ Sodium _ Magnesium
Al _ Si _ Aluminum _ Silicon
P _ S _ Phosphorus _ Sulfur
Cl _ Ar _ Chlorine _ Argon
K _ Ca _ Potassium _ Calcium

Sc _ Ti _ Scandium _ Titanium
V _ Cr _ Vanadium _ Chromium
Mn _ Fe _ Manganese _ Iron
Co _ Ni _ Cobalt _ Nickel
Cu _ Zn _ Copper _ Zinc

Ga _ Ge _ Gallium _ Germanium
As _ Se _ Arsenic _ Selenium
Br _ Kr _ Bromine _ Krypton
Rb _ Sr _ Rubidium _ Strontium
Y _ Zr _ Yttrium _ Zirconium

Nb _ Mo _ Niobium _ Molybdenum
Tc _ Ru _ Technetium _ Ruthenium
Rh _ Pd _ Rhodium _ Palladium
Ag _ Cd _ Silver _ Cadmium
In _ Sn _ Indium _ Tin

Sb _ Te _ Antimony _ Tellurium
I _ Xe _ Iodine _ Xenon
Cs _ Ba _ Cesium _ Barium
La _ Ce _ Lanthanum _ Cerium
Pr _ Nd _ Praseodymium _ Neodymium

Pm _ Sm _ Promethium _ Samarium
Eu _ Gd _ Europium _ Gadolinium
Tb _ Dy _ Terbium _ Dysprosium
Ho _ Er _ Holmium _ Erbium
Tm _ Yb _ Thulium _ Ytterbium

Lu _ Hf _ Lutetium _ Hafnium
Ta _ W _ Tantalum _ Tungsten
Re _ Os _ Rhenium _ Osmium
Ir _ Pt _ Iridium _ Platinum
Au _ Hg _ Gold _ Mercury

Tl _ Pb _ Thallium _ Lead
Bi _ Po _ Bismuth _ Polonium
At _ Rn _ Astatine _ Radon
Fr _ Ra _ Francium _ Radium
Ac _ Th _ Actinium _ Thorium

Pa _ U _ Protactinium _ Uranium
Np _ Pu _ Neptunium _ Plutonium
Am _ Cm _ Americium _ Curium
Bk _ Cf _ Berkelium _ Californium
Es _ Fm _ Einsteinium _ Fermium
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby fractal-geoff » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:40 pm

Si… Lloyd; I just played the game with you-(Embedded in response) but you didn’t get it - so I guess FAIL?

Perhaps some more direction about what you are seeking to do???
Are you looking to make a cache of general games with science orientation or games tailored to the electric universe?
Games that run on a web page or played in forums or…in the mind?
Printable games 3d printable?
Software & games; virtual tours to the sites of titanic forces ripping canyons out of planets or explore Saturn's rings in different electromagnetic spectra. (Games that inspire and give scale to it all?)
Designed to educate, but what age group or level? Feedback; this site is a bit over some peoples heads especially younger students (the future).
Are you seeking to make some super resource page?

A refined but general request to site patrons should supply you with more resources than you can handle?
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:17 pm

Hi Geoff, how did you play the game with me? I didn't see the game, or your rules for it. Before, what did you mean by automated quizzes etc? Your post was hard to understand. I'll try to answer your questions.

You asked what I'm seeking. I want to start with designing simple games that are educational and progress to designing games that improve science discussion and science. And I could use helpers who have similar interests. So I invited members here who indicated they're interested in improving science etc.

In the previous similar thread here, I gave an example of using a setup like Dungeons and Dragons, where the Rules would require doing some research to use as passwords to move to the next room. That seemed a bit too advanced to start this discussion with, so I started this thread to try to start out simpler, with educational games.

So I asked at the start of this thread for members to mention what kinds of games they like and then see if we can tweak them to make any of them educational.

It was Kody's idea to make a game to simulate plasma motions for EU. I don't know if he accepted the mission I assigned him yet for that, which was to play it with someone and see how well it performed.

Any game ideas are fine, but online games would be easiest for us to collaborate on. I'd like to see what your Rules are for your What-If game.

I don't know that it matters what age group we design games for. Age 1.5 is about ideal for learning language including reading and math and the names of lots of things. Flash cards are good for that. The card game I described above for "Brigit" could be used on 3-year-olds, if they've learned numbers by then. Young ones need to keep playing such games occasionally, or they tend to forget some of it, due to the "Use it or Lose it" rule.

Adults can learn new languages best through actions, i.e. commands, i.e. someone saying a word or phrase and then demonstrating it in action, such as "Stand by the frog" and then doing that.

You say this site is a bit over some peoples heads especially younger students. I'm open to trying out a game to address that problem, if you or anyone else is too.

I'm not seeking to make some super resource page here, unless someone else wants to, but I'm trying to help CNPS make a resource on their forum, their website and their alternative science Wiki.

You said "A refined but general request to site patrons should supply you with more resources than you can handle". What kinds of resources do you mean? I want to develop a fun process for science discussion or collaboration. Si?
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby fractal-geoff » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:59 am

Thanks Lloyd that brings me up to speed.
Re the resource page idea, one of my frustrations has been to get reliable data, charts, graphs, general information, specialist calculators, all at one site. Often find conflicting information between sites and sites just cloning bad information.
If CNPS offered a one stop that students choose to use as a resource, it might advance the electric universe into the classrooms as the authoritative alternative. It would need to be copyright free and the simplest way to get that resource seems by site patrons. Motive; just because they want to feel they are contributing.

And yes I tried to start something with reply no1, to show something that affects this site and many general perceptions. Sorry it was long but it was as small as I could weave quite a complicated concept… and then no one got it?
Unless you want me to explain again I’ll just drop it.
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Re: Simple Games for Science

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:27 am

Resource
Geoff, your resource page idea sounds good and is similar to my interest. And I think there's a good chance that CNPS will or is open to doing that sort of thing. Charles Chandler makes his own graphs etc using available data. He has somewhat similar interest, but it's hard to tell when he may have time and interest to help much. Anyway, you're welcome to join CNPS at http://naturalphilosophy.org . You can contact Bruce Nappi there, or if you like, I can introduce you to him. Bruce is in charge of their forums and he shares our interest in improving science and science discussion. He's letting me be a facilitator on some of the forums there. If you want to start an effort to compile reliable data etc, I and maybe a few other CNPS members would likely be interested in collaborating. One problem is that Bruce requires that people need to register with CNPS in order to read or use the forums, so that means it's a private forum, which isn't good for educating the public. He says bots make it necessary to do that. But other forums seem to have found ways to allow public viewing without bots presenting serious problems. I haven't pressed the issue with him yet, because the forums are still under construction.

Explain Game
You say you tried to start something with reply no1. Were you trying to start a game that we can play in this thread? The What-If game? Or do you call it Explorers' Map? It was hard for me to tell if you were talking about one or two game ideas, or several. I'd like you to keep explaining until we understand. What are the Rules? How do we play? Oh, I see you said players would need a board. I guess that's why I glossed over it. I assumed you were talking about a game that would need to be played with others in person, instead of online. So is there a way to play in this thread? Or do we need a chat room or etherpad? I'm okay with either of those too. You have some splaining to do. Do you suggest a topic for debating? Should each person's turn be limited to so many words or sentences, so it doesn't get too complex and confusing? Do you have a way to measure logic? Can you provide a very short example of your game played in say 3 to 5 turns between 2 players? (PS, my favorite version of EU also differs quite a bit from that of this site, but I'm open-minded.)
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