Is the Universe recession-proof?

Hundreds of TPODs have been published since the summer of 2004. In particular, we invite discussion of present and recent TPODs, perhaps with additional links to earlier TPOD pages. Suggestions for future pages will be welcome. Effective TPOD drafts will be MORE than welcome and could be your opportunity to become a more active part of the Thunderbolts team.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Locked
jjohnson
Posts: 1147
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:24 am
Location: Thurston County WA

Is the Universe recession-proof?

Post by jjohnson » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:46 am

Because the observed correlation of luminosity with redshift is due to the electrical stress rather than to the distance of the object, highly charged, nearby objects look like remote, high redshift supernovae that are too bright for their distance. One can imagine the theoretical problems that would result from that misinterpretation.
I noticed this immediately I read Arp's Seeing Red, after having first read The Electric Universe. All of a sudden I realized that without parallax and "standard candles" (Cepheid variables and SN1A's), and the concept that redshift occurs for more than Doppler/expansion reasons we have no current way of knowing how far really distant objects are, nor their intrinsic brightness/luminosity as a result, nor their true sizes, nor their age nor that of the universe, if it has an age. (I just call it "indefinite" and assume that it is much, much, much greater than scientists presume to make it.) Despite what the interpreters say at NASA/Hubble, even the most recent pictures taken of the deepest field yet show galaxies whose morphology looks "surprisingly similar" (my words after looking at the picture) to ours and those around us and those in our local cluster and super cluster. This is at the limit of the presently observable universe. That does not mean "at the edge"; it just means at our observational limits with what ewe've got up and working right now.

Oddly enough, despite the mathematics and symbology of logic, little of which I understand or have been exposed to in the one logic course I took in college, I subscribe to Terry Wiit's idea in Our Undiscovered Universe that, if he got nothing else in there right, we live in a singular universe, outside of which is Nothing (the Null Hypothesis as he charmingly states), and of which the antithesis is our subset of nothingness, reality: the universe we all know and love. No alternate universes; no colliding branes, no time travel. This is it, the Big Time. Based on that solid precept, all I can do is press on and keep investigating things as they are. It's lovely in its simplicity. We have everything we need right here: mass, energy, time. The total never changes. Our causative universe conserves everything within it - there is literally no place for it to go. Time did not start nor can it stop - it's not a clock. It's a zero-sum game, a friction-free Rube Goldberg device that cannot wind down or up. So, rather than mysticism or epistemological arguments, it is simpler to say we don't know it all yet, but let's stay sharp and give it a try. Each of us has one opportunity, one timeline, to do our best. Whether it's physics or theory or social work or tattooing, that's all we can do.

User avatar
The Great Dog
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Is the Universe recession-proof?

Post by The Great Dog » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:35 pm

Arp thinks that the observable Universe consists of the Fornax Supercluster and the Virgo Supercluster with a few heteromac stragglers. Since the billions and billions of light-years that conventional astronomical packs postulate don't exist, then the observable Universe is most likely a lot smaller than we are led to believe.

War of the Worldviews

TGD
There are no other dogs but The Great Dog

jjohnson
Posts: 1147
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:24 am
Location: Thurston County WA

Re: Is the Universe recession-proof?

Post by jjohnson » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:48 pm

Precisely, Dog. That's why the supposed humongous luminosity of quasars is based on their [estimated] great distances, which , if less, means that their prodigious energy output would be ... well, less astounding, say. Whether the observable universe is a little smaller than consensus theory has it, or somewhat smaller, or a lot smaller will be an open question until and unless we conjure up a rigorous means of getting the distances right.

User avatar
The Great Dog
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Is the Universe recession-proof?

Post by The Great Dog » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:40 pm

Serendipitous to this thread, the Great Dog read this TPOD today:

Faster Than Light: Part One

Since it's a re-run, here's part two from the archive:

Faster Than Light: Part Two

If they follow the convention, they'll run part two on Thursday.

TGD
There are no other dogs but The Great Dog

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest