Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil

Unread postby jacmac » Mon Oct 31, 2016 2:59 pm

Stephan said:
Plasma is composed of charged particles, so the particles are accelerated by electric currents


Because I don't know....Are the accelerated charged particles the "current", or if they are accelerated by the current, where is the current ? Or are they the current and are accelerated by electric fields ??

I don't quite grasp this yet.

Jack
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Re: Behind the Veil

Unread postby jjohnson » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:09 am

The quotation is confusing at best.

Charge particles are accelerated by electric fields and magnetic fields, both, and only indirectly by electric currents insofar as those currents themselves generate electric and magnetic fields which can exert force on charged particles within them. The particular way force is applied varies with whether it is an electric field or a magnetic field that the particle enters or is in, or which arises and envelops the charged particle.

For example, in a particle accelerator, bunches of charged particles are accelerated to a high speed by being subjected to strong electric fields - such as those found in the space inside the windings of a current carrying coil. Electrons or other charged particles between the plates of a "plate capacitor" are accelerated to have a vector component that forces them to be attracted toward the plate with the "opposite" charge to the one they possess. Negative electrons want to go toward the "positive" plate, and vice versa.

Magnets act on the direction on the motion of a charged particle , in general, unless that particle happens to be moving parallel to the [imaginary} lines of force in the magnetic field - then no turning force can be applied by that field to the particle. Magnetic fields do not speed up or slow down charged particles.

So, in a linear (straight line) accelerator, electric fields accelerate the charges as needed (near the speed of light, say, or "relativistic") for the experiment. In a circular accelerator, particles are brought up to speed by high-voltage electric fields, but they are steered by large electromagnets that create magnetic fields to precisely hold the electron beam or "bunch" within the confines of the curving accelerator)

Magnetic fields change the direction of a charged particle; electric fields change its speed. Of course, if a particle enters an electric field at an angle to the field with a certain velocity V, the acceleration force on the particle is applied in the direction of the E-field, and this additional vector can be at an angle to the original direction, causing the particle's trajectory to bend.

The difficulty in envisioning plasmas is that flows of charged particles, when there is a net flow in a particular direction, are called currents, and current flows generate magnetic fields themselves, which in tern act upon all the moving charged particles. This feedback mechanism makes them difficult to describe or predict except in certain, well-established situations. Plasma seem to self organize, and interact in feedback loops, causing flows at some times, charge separations such as double layers or sheaths at others, and highly variable magnetic fields. A simple tutorial such as Schaum's Electromagnetics does a nice job of explaining these basics, while Anthony Peratt's book, Physics of the Plasma Universe, or Paul Bellan's text, Fundamentals of Plasma Physics, do a good job of explaining many aspects of this more difficult subject.

Jim
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Re: Behind the Veil

Unread postby jacmac » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:27 pm

JJ said:
The quotation is confusing at best.


That is what I was thinking.
I have been away from the Internet.
Thanks for your detailed explanation; very informative.

Jack
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Re: Behind the Veil

Unread postby JouniJokela » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:48 am

jjohnson wrote:Charge particles are accelerated by electric fields and magnetic fields, both, and only indirectly by electric currents insofar as those currents themselves generate electric and magnetic fields which can exert force on charged particles within them. The particular way force is applied varies with whether it is an electric field or a magnetic field that the particle enters or is in, or which arises and envelops the charged particle.

For example, in a particle accelerator, bunches of charged particles are accelerated to a high speed by being subjected to strong electric fields - such as those found in the space inside the windings of a current carrying coil. Electrons or other charged particles between the plates of a "plate capacitor" are accelerated to have a vector component that forces them to be attracted toward the plate with the "opposite" charge to the one they possess. Negative electrons want to go toward the "positive" plate, and vice versa.


Just thinking Fresh, after realizing the stuff which I posted in this thread;
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16592

I mean;
-what is an "Electric Current"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current
It's a flow of electrons, or more generally, a flow of charged particles, -ions-.

-what is "magnetic field"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field
It's an effect of Electric current, so it's actually an effect of a flow of charged particles, -ions-.

-what is "Electric field?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field
It's a time-varying magnetic field, so its actually a Time varyring flow of charged particles, -ions-.

So in which direction the causality actually goes here?
1. Is the Charged particle accelerated through "electric Currents and Fields"?
or
2. Is these Charged particles creating these electic currents and Fields?

The option "2." must be correct per definition.

So how can it be, that the Calaxy is created? Or even the solar system?
Well, Because these Electric fields can only be 1-dimensional, and this causes them the self orientate to a rotating disk.
I just wrote this yesterday on this paper
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... d_of_Light

on Chapter 4.1, page 13 under the boxes.

Somehow this doesn’t make any sense. If the logic from Kinetic-gas theory is followed, this number 3 comes to the Equations from the 3-Dimensions. Therefore the plain interpretation of this would be that the Electrosphere, or Space is only 1-Dimensional. Though, there are these 1-Dimensional Structures on sight. It just sounds too simple that the galaxies and solar-systems would be reduced to a simple rotating disk through so simple mechanism.
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Re: Behind the Veil

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:16 pm

Jouni wrote:

-what is an "Electric Current"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current
It's a flow of electrons, or more generally, a flow of charged particles, -ions-.

That's for simple DC current, not for AC current (Ohms vs Farads)


-what is "magnetic field"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field
It's an effect of Electric current, so it's actually an effect of a flow of charged particles, -ions-.

Sometimes, but more generally it is the time-conjugate of a varying electric field.


-what is "Electric field?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field
It's a time-varying magnetic field, so its actually a Time varyring flow of charged particles, -ions-.

It is the result of an electric induction of a volume of aetheric space.


So in which direction the causality actually goes here?
1. Is the Charged particle accelerated through "electric Currents and Fields"?
or
2. Is these Charged particles creating these electic currents and Fields?

The option "2." must be correct per definition
.
Correct, for that special case there proposed, but the "definition" of electricity cannot be limited to "particles".

Well, Because these Electric fields can only be 1-dimensional,...


However "particles" canNot be 1-dimensional, so you have just negated your case.
Wiki is surely convenient, but it can just as surely lead one in circles.
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Re: Behind the Veil

Unread postby JouniJokela » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:29 am

seasmith wrote:However "particles" canNot be 1-dimensional, so you have just negated your case.


No, Ofcourse not, and this statement of me, is just my latest thoughts. But, I must say am not quite sure about this one dimensionality.

Even the "idea" doesn't even actually mean any simple one-dimensional world, but rather it means that the Electric matter is a self orientating system, where Entropy is decreasing.
This "system" is a rotating disk, and of course it has all the "dimensions"; x,y,z,t.
With one dimensional, is merely meant, that if you just know the radius, you know "all", as everything else is defined through physical laws; statistically all the Particle are rotating with certain velocity, around a certain plane.
This means the smallest thing, which can be "1-dimensional", is a Solar system. And the other "1-dimensional system" would be a galaxy.

I just hope someone understands what I mean here.
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