Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Books, journal articles, web pages, and news reports that can help to clarify the history and promise of the Electric Universe hypothesis.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby bourbon_bot » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:07 am

Logic and rationalism within human kind would have us believe it can eventually pinpoint all truth about existence yet also insists it came after the fact. In essence the part is greater than the whole. Since logic relies on mathematical mechanics which allows zero with exceptions would disprove the purity of logic and if this is true my statement is invalid.
bourbon_bot
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:16 am

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby Goldminer » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:09 am

A few resources for the individual interested in improving their skeptical/critical acceptance of ideas, and improving the delivery of their ideas:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/General+s ... 0166936788

http://www.brettlunceford.com/teachingo ... terial.pdf

http://www.learn-usa.com/transformation ... acf001.htm

Become a monster!
I sense a disturbance in the farce.
Goldminer
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:08 pm

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby allynh » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:32 pm

Goldminer,

Awesome links. You really are a gold miner, since everything you have linked to has surprised me. The latest links help explain what I had to survive in 24 years of State Government. 24 years of endless conferences, endless mandatory management training classes, endless discussion groups trying to find out why the work is not getting done. Yikes!

After reading your links I can actually write the above without frothing at the mouth in a classic PTSD attack.

Thank you.
allynh
 
Posts: 818
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby Goldminer » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:37 pm

Brings tears to my eyes. The wind must be blowing the campfire smoke into my face!
I sense a disturbance in the farce.
Goldminer
 
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:08 pm

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby Sparky » Fri May 13, 2011 5:09 pm

argument from authority (argumentum ad verecundiam): using the words of an "expert" or authority as the bases of the argument instead of using the logic or evidence that supports an argument. (e.g., Professor so-and-so believes in creation-science.) Simply because an authority makes a claim does not necessarily mean he got it right. If an arguer presents the testimony from an expert, look to see if it accompanies reason and sources of evidence behind it.


Isn't consensus cosmology built upon this fallacy? Along with a few more to make it appear complex and mysterious.

appeal to ignorance (argumentum ex silentio): appealing to ignorance as evidence for something. (e.g., We have no evidence that God doesn't exist, therefore, he must exist. Or: Because we have no knowledge of alien visitors, that means they do not exist). Ignorance about something says nothing about its existence or non-existence.


wouldn't any unsupported by some science "belief" be this?
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby Moby » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:31 pm

Sophocles went up to Aristotle sitting upon his rock by the sea, he had some bad news for him.
Sophocles had been told that Aristotle's wife was cheating behind his back, and wondered how to tell his good friend the bad news, because he genuinely cared for him. But he knew that Aristotle was a master of logical dialectical synergistic enthymemes. How should he proceed?

Well, the problem was solved when Aristotle asked him what was troubling him! Sophocles said-
"Yes, there is something toubling me." And so Aristotle said "Well you know my three Great Rules of Logical Lemmas", and so he continued-

"Regarding the information that you want to tell me,
Is it true, Sophocles?" "I don't know" said Sophocles.
"Is it good, Sophocles?" "No", said Sophocles.
"Is it useful, Sophocles? " "I suppose not", said Sophocles.
"Then I am not the least bit interested". said Aristotle.

Sophocles quickly changed the subject, and nothing more was mentioned thereof. Until the following week when Aristotle's wife left him, and he said to Sophocles "it came as a great shock to me, I wish someone had said something"...
Moby
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby sjw40364 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:32 am

Came across this site, it has some interesting content.
http://www.physicsmyths.org.uk/darkmatter.htm
sjw40364
Guest
 

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby nick c » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:51 am

Yes, I linked to an article, on GPS and relativity, by Dr Smid here.
Good stuff and interesting reading.
User avatar
nick c
Moderator
 
Posts: 2241
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby Sparky » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:03 am

To Settle Infinity Dispute, a New Law of Logic
Infinity has ruffled feathers in mathematics almost since the field’s beginning.-----As many of the mathematicians pointed out, the debate itself reveals a lack of human intuition regarding the concept of infinity.

A long paper. ;)

Struggling with this..... :? :oops:
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby Zyxzevn » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:04 am

It just occurred to me:
The Logical Fallacies are incomplete and all biased towards skeptic scientific reasoning.

Let met turn a few around.
ad hominem - That person must be crazy if he sees things like that.
appeal to ignorance - I see no god, so it is certainly your illusion.
argument from omniscience - all skeptics are scientists and they tell what is true and not
appeal to faith - Is actually false. If you don't open your eyes, you won't see.
Many skeptics simply refuse to see the evidence, and tell it is "faith".
They do have "faith" in that their vision is right, and will keep on stating that.

No wonder, these "logic fallacies" are all based on western materialistic philosophy.

Tel me add some Tao style visions to it:
People see only what they want to see.
How can you tell someone else is wrong, if you don't accept what he has learned or seen.
Conflicting truths can help us to transcendent to a greater truth.

And the Zen versions:
Nothing is ever proven.
No way is the right way.
Each truth leads to a new illusion.

By accepting the western "Logic" as true, we get quickly into prejudice but we call it logic.
While in eastern wisdom (tao style), we get to a common wisdom.

Then when I look at the real paranormal stuff (which I know is true) the logic gets even different.
And I am certain that the western thinking (and "logic") is totally incapable to deal with that stuff.

I do love this example: "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@
User avatar
Zyxzevn
 
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:48 pm

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby Sparky » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:23 am

By accepting the western "Logic" as true, we get quickly into prejudice but we call it logic.
While in eastern wisdom (tao style), we get to a common wisdom.


I thought that there was a long history of philosophy to support logical argument.?

Common wisdom?
"Conflicting truths can help us to transcendent to a greater truth, if one wants to see and accept it. :D

Then when I look at the real paranormal stuff (which I know is true) the logic gets even different.
And I am certain that the western thinking (and "logic") is totally incapable to deal with that stuff.


So, being bipolar, we switch to Zen..:
Each truth leads to a new illusion.
Nothing is ever proven.
No way is the right way.
Each illusion leads to a new illusion. :D
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby jtb » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:56 am

argument from omniscience: (e.g., All people believe in something. Everyone knows that.) An arguer would need omniscience to know about everyone's beliefs or disbeliefs or about their knowledge. Beware of words like "all," "everyone," "everything," "absolute."


I love this one because I used it once. A true story.

After 911 a bunch of us guys were discussing the evidence for the existence of God. After listening to all the arguments I said: "Everyone believes something. Even an atheist, that says there is no evidence for the existence of God, will believe in Big Foot and Space Aliens without any evidence."

The only PHD in the discussion happened to be an atheist that believed in Big Foot and Space Aliens. He wouldn't talk to me for almost a year.
jtb
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:36 am

Re: Logic, Argument, & Logical Fallacies

Unread postby rennie564 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:54 pm

This site is all about logical fallacies and teaching others about it. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

They have a poster you can download as a PDF. I have it hanging in our homeschool classroom and reference it often with the kids! I do think they probably could have used much better examples though.
rennie564
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:14 pm

Previous

Return to Electric Universe - Resources

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest