11,000 B.C. Extinction

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby mharratsc » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:05 am

Can you imagine the stampede that was caused when those burning hot micrometeorites started pin-holling those bison and mammoths? I bet the Earth shook all the way to China! :shock:
Mike H.

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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby kiwi » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:26 pm

Hi Mike

It sure would of been helpful to have been rostered off the "hunt" that day! :)


Where is the C14 dating debate at these days? ...the "fresh" look to some of those tusks are probably a bit misleading? ...there are videos on YouTube showing Mammoth tusks being freed from frozen muck heaps by high-pressure water-blasting ( the theorys of Prof V seem to have a lot of merit imo, just the dating seems at odds)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9w8czHwO6A
what was found towards the end of this video?

majeks 3 years ago mammothquest
3 years ago We found an ice lens that we had to let thaw for a week. Check out our 2nd video, "wierd bone" to see what we found...we still have no idea what it is and are hoping someone out there will be able to identify it!

mammothquest 3 years ago


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThqCvwquerQ

While using the iron giant, we unearth a type of bone we've never seen before. Please comment if you have any idea what it is!



I have (somewhere) a paper questioning the inconsistancys in the base ratios variation of the Rubidium used to date rock,.... found this from wiki though

Sources of error
Rb-Sr dating relies on correctly measuring the Rb-Sr ratio of a mineral or whole rock sample, plus deriving an accurate 87Sr/86Sr ratio for the mineral or whole rock sample.

Several preconditions must be satisfied before a Rb-Sr date can be considered as representing the time of emplacement or formation of a rock.

The system must have remained closed to Rb and Sr diffusion from the time at which the rock formed or fell below the closure temperature (generally considered to be 650 °C);
The minerals which are taken from a rock to construct an isochron must have formed in chemical equilibrium with one another or in the case of sediments, be deposited at the same time;
The rock must not have undergone any metasomatism which could have disturbed the Rb-Sr system either thermally or chemically
One of the major drawbacks (and, conversely, the most important use) of utilizing Rb and Sr to derive a radiometric date is their relative mobility, especially in hydrothermal fluids. Rb and Sr are relatively mobile alkaline elements and as such are relatively easily moved around by the hot, often carbonated hydrothermal fluids present during metamorphism or magmatism.

Conversely, these fluids may metasomatically alter a rock, introducing new Rb and Sr into the rock (generally during potassic alteration or calcic (albitisation) alteration. Rb-Sr can then be used on the altered mineralogy to date the time of this alteration, but not the date at which the rock formed.

Thus, assigning age significance to a result requires studying the metasomatic and thermal history of the rock, any metamorphic events, and any evidence of fluid movement. A Rb-Sr date which is at variance with other geochronometers may not be useless, it may be providing data on an event which is not representing the age of formation of the rock.

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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby Julian Braggins » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:04 am

http://iceagenow.com/ http://www.evolutionaryleaps.com/Caroli ... Russia.htm

I wonder if this impact site could be connected to the micrometeorites embedded in the mammoths and bison?
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:54 pm

Reading Venn’s posts about the human artifacts and remains found in the he auriferous gravels of the Sierra Nevada, was reminded of this:

“” * The Earth could easily be merely 20,000 years old, as Venus is likely not over 12,000 years old. Virtually all conventional dating is based on assumptions of uniformitarianism, i.e. that no major catastrophic events occurred for billions of years and that electrical forces have little influence in solar systems. “”

Josiah Dwight Whitney, 1880
( and I have been very gentle with you lately Lloyd ol’friend)


That’s like blaming Ishrael for all the problems in the Middle East, and may have been true at the turn of the century Before last, but the mining community has been doing a lot of hard-nosed, un-biased research since then.

The Tertiary stream beds- the “channels,” as they are called-proved rich but difficult to mine. New methods were devised; by hydraulic mining the gravel banks were washed down by the aid of powerful streams of water, and by drift mining the bottoms of the old streams beds were followed by tunnels underneath the heavy volcanic covering.
Millions of dollars were annually recovered from these Tertiary channels, and the heyday of this industry fell in the seventies of the last century. Since then, owing to the prohibition of hydraulic mining and the gradual exhaustion of the richer channels suitable for drift mining, the industry has slowly decayed until in the year 1908, the total production of the drift, hydraulic, and surface mines of the range, for the first time since 1848, fell below $1,000,000

http://www.origsix.com/tmarticle.asp?id=193


“These gravels originated during the Eocene in rocks somewhere deep in Nevada beyond today's Mother Lode country, from highlands that are long gone. Most of the gravel was overburden, the gold-bearing zone being at the bottom. Remnants of the auriferous gravel have been well mapped, starting with Waldemar Lindgren's 1911 publication "Tertiary Gravels of the Sierra Nevada of California." This exposure is also part of the railroad's ribbon of land that escaped the hydraulickers.”

http://geology.about.com/od/geophoto_to ... ovejoy.htm


Of course there is still a ‘neo-uniformitarian’ perspective out there, which in fairness should be included here.
Image
Figure 2: Tuolumne Table Mountain latite (an extrusive volcanic rock) now forms a prominent cliff overlooking the Stanislaus River at the extreme southern portion of Calaveras County, California. The erosion-resistant latite has capped the auriferous gravel of the ancient Tertiary Stanislaus River bed and preserved it from massive erosion as the rest of the surrounding countryside was severely eroded. It was under the Table Mountain latite that some of the human remains and artifacts were discovered (Gentet, 1991).
http://www.creationhistory.com/EarlyPeo ... vada.shtml

Coyote-man, also called O-ye by some tribes, is also reported in one tale as having "gathered up the people and took them away with him across the ocean" after he and Wek-wek the Falcon-man quarreled and later he "brought the people back." (Merriam 1910, p. 157) Thus, in the very tales and stories of some of the Miwok Indians, ocean travel is recorded.

Merriam, C. Hart. 1910. The Dawn of the World: myths and weird tales told by the Mewan indians of California. Arthur H. Clark Company, Cleveland.

( In full disclosure, i tend to credit the Hopi indian tales placing them in N America 40k y.a.,
and their mythic depictions of an electric sky )
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby ancientd » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:11 pm

if you read Adrienne Myers book "fossil legends of the " you will find that "lightning events" as being the cause of destruction of the Mega fauna and early Americans quite common. More imoortantly sinc e we are trying to pin this to a particular time a time frame of 1 -4 thosand ywears is commonly mentioned . Not 40 thosand years ago. It is also possibly quite deceptive to point to ice coresas a definitive measure since the paradigm of one layer equals one year has been shown to be erroneous . If not to the research teams who gain funding on this belief but in obserance of layers that are often laid down many times per year . ( isotopic O18 isproduced by cosmic ray sorms ( read weather events) not annual melts. Another anomaly sadly neglected and misunderstood is that quite apart from different rates of Carbon 14 production ( huge variation in some cases ) Isotopes of exactly the same construction physically ( eg same number of protons and a different but equal set of Neutrons ) can exhibit vastly different decay rates for reasons unknown , Rick Firestone of Berkeley nationa laboratories revealed this to me in an interview. As an example a Cobalt isotope may have the same structure but a different internal set up Don't ask me to explain why . The point is this amy radically alter assumed decay rates
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:37 pm

Seasmith quoted Venn: The Earth could easily be merely 20,000 years old, as Venus is likely not over 12,000 years old.

* It so happens that I made a similar statement probably 2 years ago on this forum.
* AncientD, when and where did you interview Rick Firestone?
* Speaking of the 11,000 BC Extinction, archeologist Robert Schoch has been saying some interesting things related to that. He found that the Easter Island stone statues and a script from there resemble images from an ancient site in Turkey dated at a similar age about the time of the Younger Dryas event (which Cardona says is when Earth in tow behind Saturn first entered the Solar System and Saturn flared up, raining detritus on Earth etc).
* Schoch had read Peratt's findings on the ancient petroglyphs, which were seen in the far southern sky by the ancients and he connects the Easter Island images and others with Peratt's plasma petroglyphs. There appear to have been fairly advanced civilizations at that time, according to him, such as in Turkey and on Easter Island. See http://robertschoch.com. One page is called Ice Age and Plasma, one is Easter Island, another one is Turkey etc.
* The EU team has announced that Schoch will be a speaker at the upcoming Las Vegas EU Conference. See http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/category/events/. There's also a Youtube video about the conference.
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:47 pm

Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction
by Lloyd » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:37 pm

Seasmith quoted Venn: The Earth could easily be merely 20,000 years old, as Venus is likely not over 12,000 years old.



mmno, i was quoting you


Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction
by Lloyd » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:42 pm

Why is a date of 10,000 BCE such fantasy? Last I checked the Earth was over 4.5 billion years old. - MarcusDrake


* The Earth could easily be merely 20,000 years old, as Venus is likely not over 12,000 years old. Virtually all conventional dating is based on assumptions of uniformitarianism, i.e. that no major catastrophic events occurred for billions of years and that electrical forces have little influence in solar systems. Sitchin greatly misinterpreted the Sumerian tablets. Talbott et al have much better interpretations that conform with proper interpretations of other myths worldwide.


btw, many aboriginal groups have have their tribal histories going back at least twice that far,
in the current epoch...

s
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby nick c » Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:27 pm

Lloyd,
Lloyd wrote:Seasmith quoted Venn: The Earth could easily be merely 20,000 years old, as Venus is likely not over 12,000 years old.


I believe this is an error. To the best of my knowledge, Venn has never made, on this forum, any claims as to the age of the Earth.
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby venn » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:18 am

nick c wrote:Lloyd,
Lloyd wrote:Seasmith quoted Venn: The Earth could easily be merely 20,000 years old, as Venus is likely not over 12,000 years old.


I believe this is an error. To the best of my knowledge, Venn has never made, on this forum, any claims as to the age of the Earth.


I'm sure, it is an error and I think seasmith confirmed it. He was apparently quoting Lloyd, not me. I never made such a statement to my knowledge. And I can't find the original quote here on the forum.

seasmith answering Lloyd:

seasmith wrote:
mmno, i was quoting you
"If you take a highly intelligent person and give them the best possible, elite education, then you will most likely wind up with an academic who is completely impervious to reality.” - Halton Arp.
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:29 pm

* Sorry, I misread you, Seasmith. I now have less confidence that the Earth could be 20,000 years old, but it seems that it's going to be a while before there's a reliable dating method for the planets.
* I just talked with Cardona about the Younger Dryas event of about 10,000 years ago or more. He says he does not agree with Schoch about advanced civilizations having existed at that time, but he says they came much later. He says his forthcoming book, Metamorphic Star, will discuss the Younger Dryas event in great detail. I believe that was the time that he says the Saturn System was entering the Solar System after having come a great distance over untold eons from the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy. It's also the time that both the Sun and Venus were first seen. Venus was seen on the face of proto-Saturn.
* I was a bit excited to hear Schoch propose that advanced civilizations existed back at that time, but now it appears more likely that his theory is in error, since he likely is less interdisciplinary than are Thunderbolts team members.
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby ancientd » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:39 pm

In answer to your question "seasmith" re interview of Rick Firestone.It was july this year at the Synchrotron facility at Berkeley campus. It was part of a film to be entitled "mammoths,thunderbolts and mass extinction" I also interviewed Adrienne Mayer in Montana ( mythology of fossils) and Dr Larry Agenbroad from the "mammoth site" at Hot springs,South Dakota( He has pulled a couple of Mammoths out of the Siberian Tundra) All very interesting as they have very different views on what and when the extinctions occurred .According to carbon dating some of the wrangle island mammoths are only 5 thousand years old whilst the archaeologists at the latest SNOWMASS site claim 50,000 years old ( similar to Hot springs. Yet nearby at Agate fossil beds the dissimilaer set of Megafauna are said to in the hundreds of thousands years old. So getting back to Carbon dating I think it badly unreliable over five thousand years . Someone mentioned Dwardu and he maintains( as I remeber) there were many mass destructions and believes the Carbon dating reveals many thousands of years apart. I am more inclined to go by Claude Schaeffer who demonstrated around six fairly recent catastrophic episodes, in the middle East and beyond, dating back to the early Bronze age (conventionally dated in it's demise around 3200BCE). . If you believe Velikovsky's arguements these were caused by disharmonic combinations of Saturn, Jupiter, Venus,Mars and Mercury ( see Velikovsky archives)Did the mammoths meet their end from these fairly recent planetry fiascoes? Or did their extinctions stretch back to the more distant past? I certainly believe it was at the time of civilized man and not so long ago but this is only conjecture bought about from Adrienne Mayer's books where the verbal evidence of the early Americans strongly suggests and even frames it as a recent experience
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:59 pm

Venn, Lloyd et al,


The confusion is my fault.
I should have attributed the quote when i used it on 9-25.


Ancientd,

Which question, the rhetorical one in the original post ??

s
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:10 pm

* I believe I'm the one who asked Ancient D about the interview with Rick Firestone. And thanks, Ancient D, for the answer.Where do you publish your interviews? Can you share any of the highlights with us? Or did you already do that?
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby ancientd » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:56 pm

Lloyd Ill see if I can knock together a short U tube or vimeo on Rick Firestone if you give me a week or so. As you know he has copped a lot of flack lately but in essence he is more a believer in a conventional or Tunguska type impact. Needs a little conversion. But I find his evidence of iron sperules ,Carbon spherules and Iridium embeddings really important ( not too mention the nano diamond controversy) Also his mention of dramatic peaks in C14 around these extinctions.He is the quintessential expert on Isotopes so is a really practical guy. Anyway I'll get something together as whatever he is a brilliant physicist.The film wont be out for awhile and Wal T is doing an interview with me shortly to give the EU idea on comets as distinct from Rick Firestone who still sees them as dusty snowballs.
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Re: 11,000 B.C. Extinction

Unread postby ancientd » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:37 am

OK Lloyd heer is the first part. A bit dry and uncut but interesting( at least to me ).. Just go to this U tube site
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1M6DmrjbXA
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