11,000 B.C. Extinction

[seasmith]

~
11,000 BC Extinction]1


GEOLOGY-- Compelling evidence . . . ??

Fragments of tektites, natural glass objects, discovered by a team of geologists and geochemists help support a theory that a meteorite may be responsible for the sudden climate change that devastated large mammals in North America 11,000 years ago. While critics of such an extraterrestrial event have in the past noted the lack of evidence, the micro-tektites from the Clovis-age Murray Springs in Arizona could cause them to rethink their position. “These micro-tektites contain iron oxide spherules in a glassy iron-silica or silica matrix, which is one indicator of a possible meteorite impact,” said lead author Mostafa Fayek of the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg. “The spherules also contain elevated concentrations of vanadium and sulfur, and small amounts of titanium.” The University of Tennessee’s Larry Anovitz, who works in ORNL’s Measurement Science and Systems Engineering Division, noted that the chemistry of the spherules and matrix is consistent with that of tektites associated with other meteorite impact sites such as those found in Romania. Funding was provided in part by the Natural Science and Engineering Council of Canada.

Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory, September 2008
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/544260/

[moses]

~
11,000 BC Extinction]1
GEOLOGY-- Compelling evidence . . . ??
Fragments of tektites, natural glass objects, discovered by a team of geologists and geochemists help support a theory that a meteorite may be responsible for the sudden climate change that devastated large mammals in North America 11,000 years ago. While critics of such an extraterrestrial event have in the past noted the lack of evidence, the micro-tektites from the Clovis-age Murray Springs in Arizona could cause them to rethink their position. “These micro-tektites contain iron oxide spherules in a glassy iron-silica or silica matrix, which is one indicator of a possible meteorite impact,” said lead author Mostafa Fayek of the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg. “The spherules also contain elevated concentrations of vanadium and sulfur, and small amounts of titanium.” The University of Tennessee’s Larry Anovitz, who works in ORNL’s Measurement Science and Systems Engineering Division, noted that the chemistry of the spherules and matrix is consistent with that of tektites associated with other meteorite impact sites such as those found in Romania. Funding was provided in part by the Natural Science and Engineering Council of Canada.

Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory, September 2008
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/544260/

Was it meteorites or interplanetary electrical discharges ? The 11,000 year
ago time is very deceptive as all such datings are pure fantasy. I put
this extinction event as a Mars-Earth interaction, where the Martian
orbit put it on an almost head-on course with Earth.
Mo

[seasmith]

~
Mo,

As likely a scenario as any other, at this point.
What is clear, as supported by the plethora of references cited by D. Cardona in Flare Star (and whose authors are generally all made out to be dunderheads), is that, in that time period and 5- 6 k years later, there were geological upsets of biblical and pre-biblical proportion.
What caused those convulsions (and are they in some way cyclical); your guess is as good as any of the catastrophist's currently racing to put print to publisher, lest another steal their march.

IMHO, your Mars has a definite foundation of credibility due to it's appearance in legend in the referenced time-frame.


Thank you for your input,
s

[moses]

As likely a scenario as any other, at this point.
What is clear, as supported by the plethora of references cited by D. Cardona in Flare Star (and whose authors are generally all made out to be dunderheads), is that, in that time period and 5- 6 k years later, there were geological upsets of biblical and pre-biblical proportion.
I still say such datings are pure fantasy.


What caused those convulsions (and are they in some way cyclical); your guess is as good as any of the catastrophist's currently racing to put print to publisher, lest another steal their march.
seasmith
I do find that the catastrophists are very secretive. However the past is
not going anywhere soon !
Mo

[Grey Cloud]

Hi people,
Moses wrote:

I still say such datings are pure fantasy

Slightly over the top there Mo, but I agree that all the dating methods are problematic in one way or the other.
I do like the 11,000 BCE date though as it is half a Great Year (13,000 years ago) away from today.
13,000 y.a. precession moved from Virgo (ruling planet Mercury) to Leo (ruling planet Sun).
Three Great Months ago, 6,500 y.a. or approx 4,380 BCE we moved from Gemini (ruling planet Mercury) to Taurus (ruling planet Venus).
We are currently moving from Pisces (ruling planet Jupiter) to Aquarius (ruling planet Saturn).
The way I view it is that the last 13,000 years represent the descending part of the cycle (autumn (or fall?) and winter) and we are now moving into the ascending cycle of spring and summer.
This would suggest that the space weather is in for some sort of seasonal change.

[GaryN]

Nano-diamonds from California coast.

12,900 years ago, very close to half the precessional cycle, and what I think is the quarter cycle electrical activity peaks. They make no mention of the fact that nanodiamonds can be formed within carbon fullerene 'onoins', that can be produced in an electrical arc. I don't know the full details of the of the animals that became extinct, but the larger ones may well have been electrocuted because of their body mass/capacitance, while, like the bird that can land on a 10kv line without harm, the smaller animals would survive. Perhaps that could also explain why the dinosaurs were wiped out in earlier events?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 190719.htm

[Lloyd]

What is clear, as supported by the plethora of references cited by D. Cardona in Flare Star ..., is that, in that time period and 5- 6 k years later, there were geological upsets of biblical and pre-biblical proportion. What caused those convulsions (and are they in some way cyclical) - Seasmith

* Cardona has said that Saturn flared up cyclically, ending about 5,000 years ago, but I haven't heard mention of catastrophes occurring during the flare-ups. I believe the catastrophes began about 5,000 years ago, when Jupiter possibly took Saturn's place at the North Pole temporarily, possibly due to Earth flipping over. Then the Saturn System broke up and that's when Mars and possibly Venus, Jupiter, Io etc had electrical encounters with Earth, possibly over a period of a few centuries. That short period seems to be the only time there were global catastrophes, including the Great Flood, the opening of the ocean basins, the buildup of mountains and the carving of the surfaces of the continents by "lightning". If any local megalightnings occurred before 5,000 years ago, they would likely have been virtually obliterated by the catastrophes of 4 to 5,000 years ago. Si?
* Of course, I'm not counting the time of the original formation of the Earth. That would have been catastrophic, if anything alive had been in the vicinity of Saturn or Jupiter when Earth apparently formed therefrom.

[moses]

Of course, I'm not counting the time of the original formation of the Earth. That would have been catastrophic, if anything alive had been in the vicinity of Saturn or Jupiter when Earth apparently formed therefrom.Lloyd
The old Precambrian rocks are much folded and although this folding
probably happened catastrophically, it does suggest a previous era
of planetary electrical interactions. And this would be before Saturn
invaded the Solar System, so it becomes very speculative as to the
origins of Earth.
If any local megalightnings occurred before 5,000 years ago, they would likely have been virtually obliterated by the catastrophes of 4 to 5,000 years ago. Si?
Lloyd
Probably little geological evidence of such early megalightnings, but
maybe surviving human stories. With the planets expected to have oscillated
somewhat in the Saturn System one would expect there to have been electrical
flare-ups even in the golden age.
Mo

[seasmith]

~

. ... In this time they {the Egypyian priests} said that the sun had moved four times from his accustomed place of rising, and where he now sets he had thence twice had his rising, and in the place from whence he now rises he had twice had his setting;~

Herodotus- The Histories


GC (via PM):

“ “...the Indians have mega timescales too. An alternative would be the Earth flipping but that would raise other questions? “

Perhaps not such a radical notion as most folks would initially think [a sixty degree + or minus, wobble might do it].

~ A natural way to envision such an occurrence would be as a spinning merry-go-round that is suddenly tipped up, with the little kids flying off the horsies.

A more EU way to conceive it, might be to consider the Earth as a ball-bearing, spinning within the confines of a grand EM gyroscope; with the next outer ‘sphere’ being the earth’s magnetosphere; and the gyro-cradle being say, the heliosphere.

Now picture the cradle receiving an external shock, from an unknown force. The whole gyroscopic system would respond as a piece, held in the thrall of a ( once balanced ) electro-static/electro-dynamic field structure.

Each component would then move, as in a fluid, back into equilibrium with its EM gyro-system and the galactic environment.
Ideally…
~

[MarcusDrake]

A fascinating post, and a subject I just touched upon very lightly in a post earlier. I had read about this hypothesized impact over a year ago, and recently saw a piece on the science channel where they discussed it as well.

The Carolina Bays proved a great deal of physical evidence for an impact over the Great Lakes. Firstly, because they are all elliptical, resemble impact craters and generally point toward the Great Lakes and are dated to be about 13,000 years old. The magnetic sphericals only add more proof that something catastrophic happened at the end of the ice age. The fact that the mysterious Younger Dryas cooling happened shortly after the Earth had begun to heat up again and the glaciers receding is yet more proof that an impact scenarios nicely explains.

I like Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is probably the correct one. An impact makes the most sense here.

I do have some questions:

Why is a date of 10,000 BCE such fantasy? Last I checked the Earth was over 4.5 billion years old. Science may not get everything right, but there are certain things that are undeniable. The half-life of elements being one of them. If religious writings are basis for your calculations then consider the fact that the Bible was based largely on older Sumerian and Akkadian texts which clearly indicate a presence on this planet by the gods more than 400,000 years ago -- and humans were around before they got here. There are cross references between many ancient religious/mythological texts, too many to ignore and cast off as pure myth. All myth, like religion, is based upon some truth. Science and religion are not far removed from each other and neither are the minds who are inherent in both.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Marcus,
You wrote:

Science may not get everything right, but there are certain things that are undeniable. The half-life of elements being one of them.

I would argue that science doesn't get anything right but I'll let someone else tackle the half-life dating issue.

then consider the fact that the Bible was based largely on older Sumerian and Akkadian texts which clearly indicate a presence on this planet by the gods more than 400,000 years ago -- and humans were around before they got here.

The OT is based more on Egyptian, Babylonian and Canaanite sources. I don't know where you got the figure of 400,000 y.a. from but the ancient texts don't say humans were here before gods.

There are cross references between many ancient religious/mythological texts, too many to ignore and cast off as pure myth. All myth, like religion, is based upon some truth.

As far as Seasmith and myself (and others) are concerned, you are preaching to the converted.
See:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1026 and
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2079

[MarcusDrake]

Where do you think the Babylonians got their ideas? Those who came before them: The Sumerians and Akkadians.

In ancient Sumerian texts the Annunaki came down from the planet Nibiru (which means Planet of the crossing, also a reference to a ferry man) to find humans living here. The Annunaki were giants compared to humans, being between 9 and 20 feet tall. Giants of course are mentioned in the Bible. They also had children with humans, which is also mentioned in the Bible. Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

The Annunaki were not immortal, but lived much longer than any man. Methuselah is reported to have lived over 950 years, but Annunaki live for over 400,000 years. The Sumerian List of Kings, although difficult to decipher exactly, gives a rundown of all the god kings who ever lived in the region and goes back to the first Annunaki who reigned for 40,000 years nearly 450,000 years ago. It was this long lived race of giants that ruled the earth while they were here and were known by many names in many cultures all over the earth. Nearly all mythology references the same people by various names and similarly describe their exploits.

[Grey Cloud]

That's Sitchin's rubbish you are spouting there, is it not? If it is then conversation over.

[moses]

In my theory life on Earth came from Mars. So it is possible that there were
human giants on Mars which crossed over to Earth. This might have happened
more than once so that the DNA of the original human Earthians would have
been close to that of the giants from Mars, and so large size babies could
have been produced by human women. Just a possibility.
Mo

[davesmith_au]

OK boys and girls, in case none of you have noticed, this is the Planetary SCIENCE board, not the "I have a theory" board. That one's a little lower down...

Electric Universe - Planetary Science
Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

So let's return this thread to the original subject, and not hijack it with speculations.

Dave Smith.
Forum Administration.