Satellites, Spacecraft, and Electric Fields

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: ISS electric fields

Unread postby Ben D » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:24 pm

It appears NASA is on to something as a result of their 'tether' experiment back in 1996.

Up, Up, and Away (bit by bit) "The nation that controls magnetism controls the universe."

The Tethered Satellite System employed a large deployment mechanism, resembling a deck winch, in the Space Shuttle payload bay. The winch unreeled 20 km of insulated, conducting tether with a spherical satellite at the end. As the Shuttle orbited the Earth, the electrical wire cut through the Earth's magnetic field , and the motion produced an electrical current. Electrons - which make up a current - were collected by the satellite, through the tether, and flowed out the Shuttle by way of an electron gun that dumped the charge as it built up.

What Stone and other scientists found was that the tethered system produced more current that expected.

"The theoretical models were not accurate on tether," Stone said, "and the currents were higher than we expected." Specifically, the models require that the voltage be 10 times greater to collect a current than what was observed. Before the flight, the models predicted that the tether would produce 0.5 amp (0.5 A) under ideal conditions. Instead, it produced more than 1 amp under less than ideal conditions.

The Tethered Satellite System (TSS) carried on the Space Shuttle was a large, complex system. Discoveries from are showing how smaller tethers can be used to keep satellites in orbit.

"The models were a factor of two or three off because they don't include the effects of orbital motion through the plasma (electrified gas) of the ionosphere," Stone said. While motion of a conductor through the magnetic field is crucial (it's also how a generator in a power plant works), motion through the electrons in space was thought to be a miniscule effect. The Shuttle moves at 7.7 km/s (17,500 mph) while the electrons move at 200 km/s (115,000 mph).

It turns out that the current carried by those electrons connected nicely with the tethered system and "contributed significantly" to the power generated.

Dr. J. R. Sanmartin of the Polytechnic University of Madrid, Spain, predicted that a tethered system did not need a large sphere at the end of the line to work. The motion of a satellite through space generate a plasma shield that stands off about 1 cm (0.4 in) away from the spacecraft surface. On the 1.8 m (6 ft) diameter TSS, that 1 cm standoff adds only about 2 percent to the collecting area. On a wire, it increases the collecting area 400-fold or more, so that an 82-meter wire now has as much effective collecting area as the 1.8-meter sphere.

"If this new bare wire tether works as advertised," Stone said. "it would allow us to collect considerably more current for a given length of tether." As a result, shorter tethers could be used for propulsion or to generate electrical power.
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:43 pm
Location: Australia

Re: ISS electric fields

Unread postby Solar » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:25 pm

Excellent find Ben D. I thought I was reading a TPOD!!! - in their own words to boot!
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
User avatar
Solar
 
Posts: 1240
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:05 am

Re: ISS electric fields

Unread postby Ben D » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:35 pm

Thanks Solar, BTW the link for the 'Propulsive Small Expendable Deployer System - ProSEDS' that was to be a follow on experiment, in that article didn't work for me,.. here is one that I found from a quick google. Very interesting to see NASA's plans to wire it up in the electrical motor mode for raising the orbit of spacecraft.

Plugged in to space - Proposed flight demonstration will show how to keep space clean - and boost satellites

In the ProSEDS demonstration, it's a 15 km(9.3 mi) tether unwound upward from the Delta II rocket stage. The upper 10 km (6.2 mi) are nonconducting, and the lower 5 km (3.1 mi) are a bare wire to make an electrical connection with the ionized gases - plasmas - of space.

The slight decrease in Earth's gravity across the length of the tether actually pulls the two ends apart, keeping the tether stretched out. Once unreeled, the tether moves across the Earth's magnetic field lines and, in "generator mode," produces an electrical current through the tether. A hollow cathode then ejects electrons back into space, thus completing the circuit - and putting the brakes on the rocket.

"The next step would be another demonstration that shows orbit raising by using the tether in the 'motor mode.' Rather than generating power, the tether system could use electrical power from solar arrays to generate thrust and boost the satellite's altitude," Johnson continued. That probably would require a dedicated spacecraft for the demonstration. But it would be a worthwhile investment that could lead to a savings of up to $2 billion in space station operations costs, power space tugs taking satellites to higher orbits, and possibly reduce the weight and cost of probes to Jupiter and its moons.
User avatar
Ben D
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:43 pm
Location: Australia

Re: ISS electric fields

Unread postby junglelord » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:54 am

The tether video was the most unusal thing I have ever seen.
:shock:
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord
User avatar
junglelord
 
Posts: 3693
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:39 am
Location: Canada

Re: ISS electric fields

Unread postby Solar » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:52 pm

The events tell a tale of stark contrast in the world of astrophysics and cosmology. Often one can encounter characterizations of EU/Plasma Cosmology ideas and it's proponents as being generally 'rebellious' and the theory in need of mathematical erudition.

They're creating electricity for the ISS via running a wire through the Earth's magnetic field but some astronomers and cosmologist don't make the necessary, and practical, quantum leap in ascertaining the origin of those magnetic fields?

I reference individuals such as Phil Plait - Bad Astronomer vs. Good Science who apparently works for NASA or some associated entity thereof or ScienceApologist and the educational system. Yet; while the polemic diatribe continues the company Plait works for is figuring out ways to literally get "Plugged in to space". :shock:

It's truly amazing and defies all reasonable attempts to understand.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
User avatar
Solar
 
Posts: 1240
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:05 am

Re: ISS electric fields

Unread postby junglelord » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:39 am

http://spacescience.spaceref.com/newhom ... ct98_1.htm
Excellent link Solar and good call on the dummies.....
:D
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord
User avatar
junglelord
 
Posts: 3693
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:39 am
Location: Canada

The Pioneer Anomaly revisited

Unread postby FS3 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:45 am

Just came across this thread and as I was dealing with the well known "anomaly"-problem lately I want to provide you with an abstract about the Study of the anomalous acceleration of Pioneer 10 and 11

Besides a lot of useful data you should focus your attention towards page 29 where amongst other "possible causes" for the deviation it is stated:
D. Electro-magnetic Lorentz forces
The possibility that the spacecraft could hold a charge,
and be deflected in its trajectory by Lorentz forces, was
a concern for the magnetic field strengths at Jupiter and
Saturn. However, the magnetic field strength in the outer
solar system is on the order of < 1 γ (γ = 10^−5 Gauss).
This is about a factor of 10^5 times smaller than the magnetic
field strengths measured by the Pioneers at their
nearest approaches to Jupiter: 0.185 Gauss for Pioneer
10 and 1.135 Gauss for the closer in Pioneer 11 [93].

Also, there is an upper limit to the charge that a spacecraft
can hold. For the Pioneers that limit produced an
upper bound on the Lorentz acceleration at closest approach
to Jupiter of 20 × 10^−8 cm/s2 [87]. With the
interplanetary field being so much lower than at Jupiter,
we conclude that the electro-magnetic force on the Pioneer
spacecraft in the outer solar system is at worst on
the order of 10^−12 cm/s2, completely negligible [94].
Similarly, the magnetic torques acting on the spacecraft
were about a factor of 10^−5 times smaller than
those acting on Earth satellites, where they are a concern.
Therefore, for the Pioneers any observed changes
in spacecraft spin cannot be caused by magnetic torques....



This is the only reference towards possible EM-sources for the acceleration-anomaly, besides other more or less mechanical investigations.

It seems that any effective electrical field by the Sun was NOT taken into consideration - moreover it looks that they interpolated the near-Sun measurements.

It seems that the alternating topography of the Solar "Ballerina-Skirt" field - with its ups-and-downs - was NOT taken into consideration.

It seems that any Plasma-related effect (double layer) was NOT taken into consideration.

...

Perhaps any one from here wants to do some EM-related math?

;)

Just my 1.616 Cents.
FS3
User avatar
FS3
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:44 pm
Location: Europe

Rosetta spacecraft to observe gravity boost anamoly

Unread postby jjohnson » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:34 am

A release yesterday from the European Space Agency (ESA) notes that their comet-chasing probe, Rosetta, will swing by the Earth to get a gravity boost en route to its targeted comet. A number of spacecraft NEAR; Galileo) utilizing this maneuver have exhibited unexplainable anomalous velocity changes, apparently, and scientists cannot yet explain why. Such changes range from no change to as much as 13 mm/s. They have ruled out "atmospheric drag" as a reason (duh! drag decelerates as it extracts orbital energy) but apparently cannot substitute anything else to account for the departures from their predicted acceleration during the probe-Earth interaction. These fall into the larger category of unexplainable velocity anomalies, including the Pioneer perturbations which were completely unexpected, as well.

[url]http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Operations/SEMUCV3VU1G_0.html[/url]

Perhaps EU scientists could link gravity with E/M phenomena to explain these things. Perhaps Miles Mathis's ideas on the unified field would account for these tiny differentials based on the spacecraft's and Earth's gravity/charge balances at various distances apart. There seems to be some reference to altitude above Earth during these slingshot maneuvers, but the altitudes are not given for all such passes. Do these probes gather or discharge electric charge during their voyages elsewhere before returning to the Earth environment for their gravity boost, and could this factor in? Do scientists consider every conceivable angle in their search for an answer? -and don't forget the always mysterious influence of Dark Things, too.
jjohnson
 
Posts: 1147
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:24 am
Location: Thurston County WA

Re: Rosetta spacecraft to observe gravity boost anamoly

Unread postby mharratsc » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:27 am

JJohnson said:
Do scientists consider every conceivable angle in their search for an answer?


Of course they don't! Between compartmentalization and 'accepted dogma' it's rare to hear of a discovery even making it to the light of day. Just look at the discoveries of Birkeland, Alfven, Jeurgens, and others brought the Electric Universe into being by breaking through the intedisciplinary walls and looking at the quandaries of one science with the eyes of another.

Have you noticed that it's only now, years after Electric Universe theorists made mention of 'electric comets,' that you see a rare report from deep within NASA's in-house information network that validates the predictions made these same EU advocates? How the information releases keep the wording to the most bland, statistical observational measurements... and never paying any mention to the validation of any prediction made under the mantle of the Electric Universe or Plasma Cosmology?

By contrast, modern-day 'science-fiction writers are allowed to base layer after layer of conjecture onto observations just as long as they can cite other fiction writers works that have been ratified previously by Astronomy's 'Approved Dogma' Commission.

I don't know if anyone else has ever noticed that before, but keep it in mind the next time you read through any ESA or NASA reports you come across- note that every story that seems to corroborate any ideas from the Electric Universe will appear as the most bland, statistical, unexciting science reporting you've ever read, whereas if you come across anything having to do with black holes, dark matter, string theory or whatnot will be an engaging and lively story that tries to invoke your imagination and paint a picture for you, and will quote numerous other theoretical papers to validate the author's assumptions based upon the power of concensus thought. :P


Mike H.

P.S.: Please excuse any typos as this was typed on my on my Android phone
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
mharratsc
 
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Maplewood, MN

Re: Rosetta spacecraft to observe gravity boost anamoly

Unread postby StevenJay » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:47 am

mharratsc wrote:JJohnson said:
Do scientists consider every conceivable angle in their search for an answer?


Of course they don't! Between compartmentalization and 'accepted dogma' it's rare to hear of a discovery even making it to the light of day.

I think there's another element that needs to be factored into this too: :? Training. :shock: That Doctorate in Whatever demands a LOT of rigorous intellectual training/IN-doctrin-ation - the basis of which, begins in the cradle for almost everyone. Subject a person to enough focused and guided training, be it science, politics or religion, and they will begin to exhibit signs of a hypnotic state. There are concepts that they are simply unaware of because they lie outside of their intellectual entrainment, their hypnosis, their world-view. And, more often than not, attempting to bring such alien concepts into view is tantamount to trying to convince a hypnotized person who thinks he's eating a big, juicy, red apple, that he's actually eating an onion. At best, you wouldn't be taken seriously. At worst, you wouldn't even be heard.

I'm convinced that the reason so many scientists today aren't finding real answers (answers that are just waiting to be found) is simply because they keep asking the wrong questions. . . over and over and over. . . :roll:
It's all about perception.
User avatar
StevenJay
 
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 11:02 am
Location: Northern Arizona

Re: Rosetta spacecraft to observe gravity boost anamoly

Unread postby jjohnson » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:39 am

Mike - yeah, I see this all the time and just cringe. Sometimes I write corrections or EU observation, but that goes the way of Halton Arp's career in the U.S., doesn't it? Android means man-like and hence the predisposition to typos!!
SJ - That's why I call them ortho-docs! They are all forced by training into the same mold so that they can advance along the deepening wagon ruts only. Increasingly, even when observing, they are only trying to do something a teensy different (but never too different) to fill in the chinks and prop things up and get accepted for publication. Consistency is ever the hobgoblin of small minds... Which is precisely why I enjoy and fit in with the viewpoints, generally, of the PC/EU folks. Fresh ideas and viewpoints argued in multiple forums by skeptical but open and critically enquiring minds.
jjohnson
 
Posts: 1147
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:24 am
Location: Thurston County WA

PLASMA and the International Space Station

Unread postby MrAmsterdam » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:25 pm

A funny discovery. In my view the international space station can be seen as an environmental plasma field experiment!

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stati ... Model.html

How far up is the ISS?
And how far does the plasma field reach into space?
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934
User avatar
MrAmsterdam
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:59 am

Re: PLASMA and the International Space Station

Unread postby MrAmsterdam » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:50 am

Satellite "IMAGE Scientific Discoveries" 2000-2005

http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/IMAGEdisc.html

Very interesting read about plasma surrounding the earth.
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934
User avatar
MrAmsterdam
 
Posts: 593
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:59 am

Re: PLASMA and the International Space Station

Unread postby mharratsc » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:29 pm

Wow! I didn't even know about that site! :o

So here we have NASA finally investigating the process that Kristian Birkeland put forth over one hundred years ago... and not a damn bit of it is making it to popular media, at least that I've seen at any rate. :\
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
mharratsc
 
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Maplewood, MN

Re: Satellites, Spacecraft, and Electric Fields

Unread postby nick c » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:59 pm

This thread is a composite of the following threads:

ISS electric fields

Satellites and Space Weather

PLASMA and the International Space Station
User avatar
nick c
Moderator
 
Posts: 2207
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

PreviousNext

Return to Electric Universe - Planetary Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest