Earth - Craters

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:41 pm

The Egyptian desert is pocked all over with a variety of ring structures, large and small.

I'm pretty sure the case can be made that Kamil (coordinates: 22.018339°, 26.087715°) had an electric origin -
it seems apparent that it is a Rim-crater on a larger, fainter ring (and there's more further out that I haven't initially marked). Take a look:

Kamil on Rim, ring unmarked:
Kamil_Rim_Crater_close_off.jpg


Kamil on Rim, ring marked:
Kamil_Rim_Crater_close_on.jpg


If you zoom out a bit, you'll see that Kamil is right smack in the middle of a larger set of EDM scars and rings, including a few Anode/Cathode pairs.

Kamil Electrical Environment, unmarked:
Kamil_Electric_Environment_off.jpg


Kamil Electrical Environment, marked:
Kamil_Electric_Environment_on.jpg


Actually, I'm surprised it took someone as long as it did to find Kamil. I've been studying this area for a few years (both for EU and for Archeology reasons), and as I mentioned, there are a BUNCH of ring structures all over the place.

Take for instance the following items, and I sincerely hope I'm not blowing my chance at fame and fortune by pointing these out, because I have no idea - at all - whether these have been officially discovered - provided they're real and not just products of my fevered imagination - but I'm pretty sure they're not in the various "impact databases" available online...

Triple Ring Structure:
Main Body: 25.017845°, 29.787525°
Primary Rim Crater: 25.017115°, 29.787729°
Secondary Rim Crater: 25.017912°, 29.786908°
This whole thing is within a larger concentric ring roughly 400 ft in diameter, and arguably all of this is a Rim structure (on the NorthEast edge) on a lip of a 20-mile wide fainter ring.

Triple Ring Structure Faint:
Main Body: 22.297611°, 29.774166°
Primary Rim Crater: 22.299152°, 29.772676°
Secondary Rim Crater: 22.295762°, 29.772914°

Small Ring:
24.527824°, 30.418548°

Small ring:
22.631582°, 29.686929°

Small double ring:
24.537383°, 30.402880°

Small double ring:
24.536503°, 30.406723°

On further reflection, I guess I'm not all that surprised after all that Kamil wasn't found earlier. People tend to think of the desert as "timeless", and I guess some of it is, but believe it or not, much of Egypt has changed within the last 100 years or so (or less). I was studying a bunch of ruins that were way too far South of Kharga/Khysis/Baris to be considered part of that area, and could not find a single reference anywhere (via Google or other means) that gave a clue to what was in these areas. By and large that is still true (even of the areas around known named wells and springs), however I did come across a WWII US Army map that showed large areas as being under cultivation which are now just desert - including areas that contain the "lost cities" I've been looking at.

So - just in case you're interested, although I know this part of my post is off topic (sorry!), here's a quick and very abridged coordinates list of some of the ruins I've been studying. I'll make an attempt to relate the first two to EU, but you'll have to just pardon the rest...

EU-Related
Latitude, Longitude
22.290433°, 29.778475° - Multi-concentric-ring-oasis
24.579705°, 30.713933° - The hill on which the Fortress of Tall Dūsh, Al Wadi al Jadid, is built is a multiple concentric ring structure that's been tilted so half of it is underground.

Just Ruins and Interesting Stuff
24.509818°, 30.703977° - I finally found out that this is a well.
24.455565°, 30.692710°
24.504426°, 30.695306°
24.503908°, 30.697335°
24.563090°, 30.737922°
24.507124°, 30.68107°
24.518321°, 30.704931°
24.496947°, 30.700113°
24.498073°, 30.697021°
24.514509°, 30.693188°
24.482891°, 30.689862°
24.516088°, 30.719942°
24.483272°, 30.695854°
24.484136°, 30.706326°
24.509506°, 30.72228°
24.563908°, 30.719436°
24.554842°, 30.720745°
24.554677°, 30.715778°
24.553379°, 30.718331°
24.543317°, 30.716636°
24.513049°, 30.719211°
24.524602°, 30.704695°
24.523152°, 30.702195°
24.524958°, 30.716743°
24.595437°, 30.703678°
24.510199°, 30.710167°
24.594651°, 30.702608°
24.596627°, 30.710269°
24.596539°, 30.710735°
24.507440°, 30.680437°
24.483313°, 30.692635°
24.502511°, 30.680641°
24.479446°, 30.686762°
24.469679°, 30.689120°
24.472775°, 30.686538°
22.343656°, 29.770127°
22.344135°, 29.773364°
22.288220°, 29.778618°
22.289695°, 29.771934°
22.381731°, 29.792307°

Enjoy!
Shelgeyr
Sometimes I feel like a tiger’s got my leg...
User avatar
Shelgeyr
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:36 pm
Location: Texas

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby mharratsc » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:43 pm

Wow, Shelgeyr! That is a lot of work you've put in on this stuff! Very cool! 8-)
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
mharratsc
 
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby MosaicDave » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:17 pm

GaryN wrote:Looks just like a hexagonal, rayed lunar crater from directly above.

Interesting... I hadn't noticed that, but it does seem to be hexagonal, doesn't it...

hexagon.jpg

Cool; this is exactly why I posted this initially, because others will notice things that I didn't.

--dc
MosaicDave
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:56 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby MosaicDave » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:35 pm

Shelgeyr wrote:Actually, I'm surprised it took someone as long as it did to find Kamil.

I wonder how they came to the conclusion that it's a-few-to-ten thousand years old, as Dr. Folco speculates in the article. For something even a thousand years old, it seems to be remarkably not full of sand, doesn't it?

I wonder if it's only, say, fifty years old? Or only ten, or five, or two?
MosaicDave
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:56 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby nick c » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:32 am

Also, the Egyptian crater has rays similar to those found on some lunar craters, ex. Tycho, Copernicus, and others, albeit on a much smaller scale.
Some of the rays do not seem to emanate from the center of the crater, in fact at least one or two are tangent to the crater wall.

Juergens saw Tycho as a “cathode crater”, and he drew special attention to Tycho’s “spectacular system of rays”. These, he suggested, are the very kind of streamers an electrical theorist would look for—a signature of the electron pathways that triggered the Tycho discharge.

Of course, the astronomers’ consensus today is that the streamers are the trails of material ejected from the crater into narrow paths over extraordinary distances. But the “rays”, Juergens noted, have no discernible depth, while material exploding from a Tycho-sized crater “would at least occasionally fall more heavily in one place than in another and build up substantial formations. But no one has ever been able to point out such a ray ‘deposit’”.
[...]
Though astronomers see Tycho’s rays as material ejected from the focal point of an impact, a mere glance at the picture above is sufficient to make clear that not all of the streamers radiate from a central point. Is this surprising? A mechanical impact has a single focal point and cannot explain these offset rays.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... crater.htm
It would be interesting to have an analysis of the rays emanating from the Egyptian crater to see how they compare to lunar rayed craters. Are they ejecta from an impact? Does anyone know if this crater is at a high point compared to the surrounding terrain?

Nick
User avatar
nick c
Moderator
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:53 am

mharratsc wrote:Wow, Shelgeyr! That is a lot of work you've put in on this stuff! Very cool! 8-)


Thanks! It is more of an obsession than a hobby... :D

What's really frustrating is that I can't seem to find a copy of maps NF-35-5 or NF-35-6 from the U.S. Army Map Service, Series P502 from 1954. I'm pretty sure that NF-35-5 would show Kamil if it existed at the time - those guys were pretty detailed...
Shelgeyr
Sometimes I feel like a tiger’s got my leg...
User avatar
Shelgeyr
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:36 pm
Location: Texas

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:35 am

I probably should have explained that map reference a bit better... Take a look at these for reference:

The map numbers for this part of Africa come from here:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/north_africa/txu-oclc-6949452-index.jpg

And, if available, the maps themselves will be here:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/north_africa/

It would be amusing if Kamil was only a couple of decades old. I mean, other parts of Egypt have sand dunes drifting across and completely blocking major highways, so I'm a bit surprised this is even visible... but then again it probably isn't in a heavy roaming-dune area...
Shelgeyr
Sometimes I feel like a tiger’s got my leg...
User avatar
Shelgeyr
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:36 pm
Location: Texas

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby flyingcloud » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:07 pm

Saw a program last night about the 1994? Nasa project to scan the Sahara with RADAR which penetrated the sands up to 6? metres deep. I'd like to take a look at those pics...

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/africa_radar_images.htm

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sour ... gQFT9BXjcE
flyingcloud
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:07 am
Location: Honey Brook

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby The Aten » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:38 am

The strange thing is the sand wasn't there some 5,000 years ago.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/arch10/100408sahara.htm

Gary Gilligan
The Aten
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:41 am
Location: UK

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:52 am

I'm glad you put that link in there to your article, Gary- it was good to re-read that one and entirely pertinent to the thread here.

Once again- the left hand of Science doesn't know what the right hand is doing... :roll:

Hope you get the opportunity to contribute more articles like that one in the future! :)
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
mharratsc
 
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:55 am

Hey, I just thought of something...

Is there any way to deduce the total volume of sand across the Earth's 'desert strip'?

The reason why I ask is- the desert range from the Sahara across the continents lies in a west-east circumferential band- much as does the Vallis Marinaris canyon on Mars...

I think it would be very, very cool to find that the amount of excavated material from the canyon on Mars closely matched the amount of sand laying on the continents on Earth! 8-)
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
mharratsc
 
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby The Aten » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:07 am

Mike,

I like your thoughts

I don't know if you've had time to glance over my web but I support Ackerman's Mercury, core of Mars extraction idea, leaving behind the Valles Marineris (same diameter as Mercury) Why? Because I believe this almost incomprehensible 'second Sun genesis' is recorded in history and comes to us via the Amarna Period. An approx. 20 year epoch where the Egyptian's apparently though it would be a good idea to rename the Sun as the Aten, or 'disk of the Sun.' I contend the Aten was the newly extracted Mercury, born in the skies above earth. It's energy (light) blotted out Re, thus taking over Re's role to become the 'disk of Re,' for about 17 years (Earth-Mars synodic cycle?). After rapidly cooling down, the old order returned and monotheism, the worship of the one true Sun (the Aten/Mercury), all but disappeared.

Ackerman cites gravity as the driving force, I think this is incorrect. This incredible event was due to electromagnetic forces. In short, the larger magnet of earth extracted the smaller magnet/core or Mars. I put my 'magnet' idea to Ackerman asking why, if gravity was the driving force was it so selective in removing Mars' solid iron core, why not rip the top, or side of Mars off?... he conceded it made him think.

In giving birth to Mercury extreme temperatures saw countless tons of molten iron (around Mars' core) and rock vaporised, eventually condensing to fall to earth as very fine sand along with a high iron ore content, just as we find in the Sahara desert.

I would reverse your 'west-east circumferential band' to an east-west band as Mars when giving birth locked into a (electromagnetic) geosynchronous orbit above the Trans-Himalayas (catastrophically raising them), and dumped the vast swaths of sand fanning out from this location.

I read somewhere earth's core favours the eastern hemisphere. This would make sense, in that when Mars, 'docked' above the Himalayas it would counter pull upon earth's core towards the east.

So in answer to your question I would suggest earth's vast iron rich deserts primarily originate from the interior of Mars, so while it may be possible to obtain a rough calculation as to the quantity of sand which forms the Exterrestrial sand scar, it would be difficult to calculate how much material has been extracted from Mars, as vast quantities would also be blasted out into space, falling into the Sun and the other planets in chaos and even back to the surface of Mars.

Its noteworthy that iron micrometeorites and sand are still falling to earth, the legacy of recent upheaval in the heavens and Mercury's recent birth, least that's the way I see it.

Gg
The Aten
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:41 am
Location: UK

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:39 am

I know that this is my particular hangup, but I'm still betting the Saharan sand is pulverized Earth rock, as opposed to having been dumped on us from space. I'm not denying the possibility of it having extraterrestrial origins, just doubting it.

My main reason (the "my particular hangup" part) is because I believe the Sahara was caused by a massive near-equatorial traveling discharge that ranged from pretty much all of Tibet on the East, through to Mauritania on the West, with the mid-point being the salt lake Tuz in Turkey.

It is from Lake Tuz that a rotating discharge would have carved out the spiral shaped Eastern Mediterranean and Black seas, and that same Golden/Logarithmic spiral defines the southern border of the Sahara (among many other things).

Simplified version:
Golden_Spiral_Off_Tuz_from_Kanglog_to_Richat_Discharge_Path_Simplified_01_sm.jpg
Golden_Spiral_Off_Tuz_from_Kanglog_to_Richat_Discharge_Path_Simplified_01_sm.jpg (43.46 KiB) Viewed 12417 times


I've put a larger version of this graphic here:
http://www.technogizmo.com/eu/Golden_Spiral_Off_Tuz_from_Kanglog_to_Richat_Discharge_Path_Simplified_01.png

If you'd like more on this hypothesis, especially how this relates to the EDM scars that make up Lake Victoria and several island chains, check out this thread from last April (2010), and scroll a bit down the page for a series of similar graphics:
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2755&p=30798#p30798
Shelgeyr
Sometimes I feel like a tiger’s got my leg...
User avatar
Shelgeyr
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:36 pm
Location: Texas

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby mharratsc » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:54 am

Both are very interesting ideas. I confess that I'm not married to the idea that I just postulated... just something that randomly crossed my mind when I was thinking of Earth and Mars getting close enough to swap matter.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
mharratsc
 
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am

Re: New (so to speak) crater in the Egyptian desert

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:53 pm

Mharratsc,

The hilarious thing is that both ideas may be true. They may not be as well, but let’s skip that for a moment.
I have no problem at all with the concept of Mars' passing by causing an interplanetary discharge resulting in both what I see as a traveling discharge scar (a big one, among many big ones), AND at the same time transporting a small ocean of charged sand – recently excavated from Mars – down onto the Earth.

One of the resulting big questions then, is “when”?

Hard (maybe impossible) to say, but the more I study what seems to be discharge-created geography and geology, the more I become convinced that this was not a one-time event.

If you think of the Earth as a Fulgurite (and I’m comfortable thinking of all celestial bodies that way), then I think it fair to classify these catastrophic events as either Formative, or Transformative. Now whether or not the Eastern Mediterranean Basin was carved out by a discharge event following hard upon the planet being calved out of wherever it came from (and I think a lot of people around here think “Saturn”, though I personally haven't formed an opinion), I’m pretty sure (not 100% sure) that the Mediterranean was already here at the time that the Sahara ceased being a bread-basket, or that the Bronze Age came to a screeching halt, or the Great Flood, or “whatever” happened. It is hard to make the timeframes fit – at least for me...

To drag this back to the original topic concerning Kamil Crater, however, I would like to propose or speculate at this scenario:

Sometime a mind-freezingly long time ago – “Dreamtime” to hopefully not abuse our Australian friends’ lingo – a seriously major transformative discharge carved a path from China through to the Atlantic, leaving us with the Himalayas, the various rugged “-istan” countries, the Black and Mediterranean Seas (or at least their basins to be filled at a later date), etc., etc., BUT it did not form the Atlantic, which was caused by an earlier and far larger discharge event (which itself tore out much of what we now call the North Pole and deposited the debris on the South Pole, but that’s another story). I’m far from sure as to whether this discharge was caused by a passing celestial body (Mars? Phaeton?), or whether it was simply massive ground-to-ground lightning (which, if the case, I’m pretty certain the Lake Victoria area in eastern Africa was the other terminus). Regardless, one thing that seems pretty definitive is that this event left traces – over and above and in addition to geographic ones – that persist to this day. Magnetic and Gravitational Anomalies, for example, or the rather abundant evidence that the patterns formed by the sand indicate the course of magnetic fields (the whole of Saudi Arabia is a spectacular example of this – easy to imagine that you’re looking at iron filings over a magnet).

So perhaps the catastrophe occurred long ago, but didn’t form the Sahara at the time. It may have just gotten it ready to form – that “electrically speaking” it was a good place to have a desert, and just needed an extra cosmic push of some sort to form. Then another event occurred (again, maybe Mars, maybe Phaeton’s Ride, who knows?), and this time the discharge wasn’t strong enough to cause major geologic/geographic upheaval, but was plenty strong to deposit gigatons of charged sand, which was distributed as it was, and landed where it is, by following the electrical path of least resistance.

If I’m even anywhere near “right”, then I think the odds of Kamil being new are fairly high, because I see the path of every sand storm as evidence that continent-spanning electrical events are still ongoing.

I think Kamil isn't an impact scar... More likely a tornado touch-down spot - just not quite the kind of "tornado" we're used to thinking of when that word is used.
Shelgeyr
Sometimes I feel like a tiger’s got my leg...
User avatar
Shelgeyr
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:36 pm
Location: Texas

PreviousNext

Return to Electric Universe - Planetary Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests