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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Earth - Craters

Earth - Craters

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby Vicomt » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:21 am

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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby Vicomt » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:24 am

Meh, that was me... I am actually registered and was logged in, but this site and Opera don't seem to want to remember that fact :x

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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby klypp » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:01 pm

I'm also new to this forum and EU. I have been checking in here a few days now hoping to see an answer to your question. However, it seems rather silent here, so I guess I'll have to add some thoughts myself.

The news article you're referring to is based on an article in GSA Journal. A resume can be found here:
http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?re ... FG24454A.1

I noted the following quote: "However, shocked quartz and biotite provide evidence for high-pressure shock metamorphism, while chromium isotope values and elevated abundances of platinum group metals and siderophile elements indicate addition of meteoritic material."
What they're actually saying is that iridium ("platinum group metals") must come from space ("addition of meteoritic material"). Why? I guess it is, as every Big Banger would tell you: Only supernovas can produce elements heavier than iron.

There is however a few (all too familiar!) problems with this theory:
1. Observations indicate something else is going on:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Heav ... 1366.shtml
2. Experiments tell a somewhat different story. All known elements heavier than uranium is produced in laboratories, with the exception of two: einsteinium and fermium. They were "unexpectedly" found in the debris of a nuclear explosion!
http://www.lbl.gov/abc/wallchart/chapters/08/0.html
Quite a number of heavy elements produced! And would you believe - the author of this article still insists that everything heavier than iron is produced by supernovas!

So what about EU and thunderbolts? So far I haven't found much. But there is an interesting article on this site, stating that "more than 99 percent of the global iridium layer is made up of spherules--droplets that condensed from vaporized rock." ( http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... crater.htm ).

Even if there are some clear indications here, I feel there should be more to be said. So what about it, does iridium come from outer space or is it produced by the thunderbolt itself? Anyone?

Where is the electrician when you need one?
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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:21 pm

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby Solar » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:50 pm

@ TOPD

"Between 1910 and 1930, many experimenters (some extremely well respected) reported the mysterious appearance of hydrogen, helium and neon in electrical discharge tubes.1 E.C.C. Baly, a Fellow of the Royal Society, summarized pertinent results in the Annual Reports of the Chemical Society for 1924 (pages 41 to 47) and 1920 (pages 27 to 35). He published results of his own experiments with R.W. Riding in 1925 and 1926. They concluded that nitrogen atoms had been converted into helium and neon during their high voltage electrical discharge experiments.
On February 13, 1914, Professor J. Norman Collie, Fellow of the Royal Society, presented a speech1 to the society. He described several experiments he performed and those reported by others in which hydrogen, helium and neon gases mysteriously appeared in electrical discharge tubes." - Paul Rowe " via Hasselburger
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby klypp » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:50 pm

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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby webolife » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:43 pm

Thank you Klypp, for the great Tatum quote.
I've been researching the iridium question as well, coming up with only dogma, although the further back you go to the original Alvarez articles, the more iffy writers speak concerning iridium. I guess that's "conventional wisdom " for you. If no one argues about my speculation, and I say it loudly and longly enough, then I guess it becomes virtual fact by default. I've been noticing dinosaurs in my garden also! Maybe global warming is bringing them out? :P
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby Solar » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:06 pm

"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby bboyer » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:11 pm

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. Maitri Upanishad
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Bacteria Transmute the KT Boundary

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:27 pm


- IRIDIUM – RHODIUM - RUTHENIUM
Twenty-eight rhodium, iridium, or ruthenium complexes were evaluated for their in vitro antibacterial activity against Enterococcus faecalis ATCC 29212, Staphylococcus aureus ATCC 29213, Escherichia coli ATCC 25922 and Pseudomonaa aeruginosa ATCC 27853
- Microorganisms complicate the k-t boundary
Ancient bacteria, from the K-T (Cretaceous-Tertiary) boundary of some 65 million years ago [are found in] a thin "spike" of iridium that is found worldwide, and which was supposedly deposited by the asteroid impact that helped finish off the dinosaurs. The problem is that the iridium layer is variable in thickness and concentration from site to site. This variability has tended to undermine the asteroid-impact theory. Recent experiments at Wheaton College by B.D. Dyer et al have demonstrated that bacteria in ground water can both concentrate and disperse iridium deposits. In other words, bacteria could smear out an iridium spike, perhaps partially erase it, or even move it to a deeper or shallower layer of sediment. (Monastersky, R.; "Microbes Complicate the K-T Mystery," Science News, 136: 341, 1989.)

- Bacteria Known to actively Transmute Elements
Bacillus Subtilus 168-------------------------------Gold
Thiobacillus Ferro-oxidans--------------------------Iron
Sulflobus Breirlyi----------------------------------Iron & Molybdenum
Pseudomonus Aeruginosa------------------------------Uranium
Beer Yeast & Rhizopus Arryhizus-------------------- Ur extracted waste Water
Sphaerotilus Leptothrix & hyphomicrobium------------Manganese
Sphaerotilus Leptothrix & Gallionella---------------Iron
Algae Spirogyra, oscillatoria, chara & rhizoclonium Mo, Se, Ur & Ra
Algae Synechococcus---------------------------------Cadmium
Actinomyces Streptomycin----------------------------Calcium From (Si + C)
Laminaria Algae-------------------------------------Iodine
Kelp on Schist(Sn) & sandstone----------------------Bromine
Pseudononas--extracts radioactive-------------------Mercury
- These next 3 sets of bacteria flourish in the presence of their stimulant metals & so may also be capable of transmutation into a safer environmental situation where these metals are contaminants.
Micrococcus luteus & Azotobactor spp.---------------Lead
Chlamydomonas reinhardi-----------------------------Mercury
Methylobacterium spp.-------------------------------Tungsten or Molydenum
Spirogyra, Rhizoclonium, Hydrodictyon & Cladophora--Lead
Last edited by Forum Moderator on Sat May 24, 2008 3:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Transmuting Iridium?

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:30 pm


- Gold synthesis in a particle accelerator is possible in many ways. The Spallation Neutron Source has a liquid Mercury target that will be transmuted into Gold, Platinum and Iridium, which are lower in atomic number.
- Gold synthesis in a nuclear reactor
In a nuclear reactor, gold can be manufactured by irradiation of platinum or mercury. Since platinum is more expensive than gold, platinum is economically unsuitable as a raw material. Only the mercury isotope Hg-196, which occurs with a frequency of 0.15% in natural mercury, can be converted to gold by neutron capture, and following K+- decay into Au-197 with slow neutrons. Other mercury isotopes are converted when irradiated with slow neutrons into one another or formed mercury isotopes, which beta decay into thallium. Using fast neutrons, the mercury isotope Hg-198, which is contained to 9.97% in natural mercury, can be converted by splitting off a neutron and becoming Hg-197, which then disintegrates to stable gold. This reaction, however, possesses a smaller activation cross-section and is feasible only with un-moderated reactors. It is also possible to eject several neutrons with very high energy into the other mercury isotopes in order to get the Hg-197. However such high-energy neutrons can be produced only by particle accelerators.

Neutron activation (bombardment) is the means in which two very important industrial radiographic sources, Cobalt-59 (Co-59) and Iridium-191 (Ir-191), are produced. ... Exposing these elements to a large thermal neutron flux (neutrons with energies less than 0.4 eV) enables the stable element to capture a thermal neutron and thus becoming one mass unit heavier.

Thermocouples Under Neutron Bombardment
... Pure platinum when irradiated produces only gold and mercury, each reaching a maximum concentration of rather less than 1 per cent after a year's exposure to a flux of on/cm/sec. Under similar conditions, however, the rhodium content of rhodium-platinum alloys is almost- completely consumed, to form palladium, mercury, gold and iridium. ... The palladium content of palladium-platinum alloys is not greatly affected although small quantities of mercury, gold, cadmium, silver, iridium and rhodium are formed by transmutation. ... Platinum alloys increase in volume under neutron irradiation by amounts ranging up to z per cent after one year at Io1%/cm2/sec. ... tungsten-rhenium thermocouples will suffer more damage ... than platinum-based thermocouples under similar conditions of neutron bombardment.
Last edited by Forum Moderator on Sat May 24, 2008 3:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby electrodogg1 » Thu May 01, 2008 7:56 am

Lloyd,

Please don't post in pink or magenta fonts. It's very hard for us old guys to read. :)
Best,

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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu May 01, 2008 8:19 am

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby StefanR » Sat May 24, 2008 7:42 am

Lots of pictures and lots of mainstream info about impacts:

Section 18: Basic Science II: Impact Cratering


Distribution of Craters / Cratering Mechanics / Shock Metamorphism / Crater Morphology; Major Impact Structures / Remote Sensing of Craters
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Re: Iridium as a marker for impacts?

Unread postby Steve Smith » Sat May 24, 2008 8:33 pm

I seriously doubt that any crater on Earth was caused by impact. In another thread I mentioned Kebira Crater, which was most likely the cause of the fragments of glass that are scattered in the Great Sand Sea near Gilf Kebir. The glass chunks are incredibly pure -- so much so that Egyptologist who found a piece in King Tut's tomb wrote that such purity was impossible for modern glass-makers, so how did the ancients do it?

The answer is that the glass was not man made, but was formed by fusing the silica sands at incredible temperatures. If the glass had been created by impact, then it would be contaminated by halite and alumina, the predominant minerals in the area, but it is as clear as water. The interesting feature about the "desert glass" is that dark swirls of pure iridium are emdedded within in. Tiny bubbles of cristabolite, a mineral that is formed at extremely high temeratures, are also there. How?

The so-called K/T boundary layer contains spherules of glass that are high in iridium -- they might have come from Popigai Crater, or from Chesapeake Bay. Currently, those two formations are the probable sources for the glass beads. In Bass River, New Jersey are thick layers of glass spherules just off the coast at almost a thousand meters depth. They are also clear as glass.

Here's a tip that Lloyd originally gave me about searching this site for information. If you want to find articles about a particular topic type in Google, site:thunderbolts.info "search term"

Putting "crater" as the search term returned these results (abbreviated list):

Richat Crater Revisited (2) Aug 12, 2005 ... Why, for these craters, is it so difficult to find evidence of impact that cannot also be explained by electrical discharge, ...
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... visit2.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

Aorounga Crater May 3, 2006 ... Satellite radar images of the Sahara desert north of Chad have revealed the presence of craters not easily noticed in normal aerial ...
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... crater.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

Popigai Crater, Siberia Jan 7, 2008 ... The infamous Tunguska crater is not the only site in Siberia where tremendous high-energy events have taken place.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/ ... crater.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Richat Crater Revisited Aug 11, 2005 ... Why do these three craters and a fourth line up and why are they so circular?
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... evisit.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Manicouagan: Impact Crater or Lightning Scar? Nov 26, 2007 ... A giant ring-shaped crater in Canada seems to be the result of a meteor strike. Could electrical scarring be a better explanation?
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2007/ ... ouagan.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Libya's Kebira Crater Apr 24, 2006 ... A huge crater in the Sahara desert, said to be the largest one ever found in the region, and dwarfing Arizona's "Meteor Crater", ...
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... kebira.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

Pictures of the Day have constantly harped on the fact that asteroids probably *can't* strike the Earth (see "Exploding Bolides"). They develop such intense electrical stress that they disintegrate at altitude. Peakskill was nothing but a few small stones when it finally reached Earth, for example. I think there's a Picture of the Day about Peakskill in the archive, as well.
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