Moon Craters

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:23 am

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "arc-us"

redeye wrote:If the hexagonal craters on Iapetus are formed by instabilities in the plasma stream that laid down the crater in the first place, why do we not see more of these formations in our solar system? Apart from one or two on our own moon I have been unable to find any others.


While I can't answer your question, a broader search for "polygonal cratering" and the like came up with several papers mentioning numerous polygonal craters (including but not limited to the hex) on Mercury, Venus, Mars, Luna and other moons, and Earth (possibly most discernible being the 4-sided Barringer's Crater aka Meteor Crater in Arizona). And, of course, there are the dynamic pentagonal/hexagonal polar forms such as on Saturn. Unfortunately, most of the papers that I browsed through didn't have pictures and were mostly concerned with conventional geophysical type explanations of the phenomenon, i.e. impact, vulcanism, etc.
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:25 am

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: Hex structures... Reply with quote
OP "davesmith_au"

Giday all.

Lloyd wrote:- I think Dave's theory is that conventional science is basically sound & has therefore made a lot of progress & that EU theory would merely help astronomy make better progress. Is that an accurate statement?


This is not accurate, conventional science has many flaws. EU theory holds promise for new discoveries in many areas of science, not just astronomy.

Lloyd I agree with most of the points you raise regarding the flaws of conventional science however, we can't throw the baby out with the bath water or we are left with nothing. My point (however unsubtle) was that we should try to maintain the current EU theme of these forums, rather than take them down the road of aliens and unicorns without first exploring the more reasonable explanations offered by the main proponents of EU, as suggested by Steve.

Now, back to the thread topic, sort of. Here's a thought, re scalability. Arc-us found polygonal structure in a nebula, including an hexagonal shape. Moving from macro to micro, could there be an electrical explanation for the hexagonal shape which ALL snowflakes have, though no two are identical?

Not intending to derail the topic, this thought just occurred to me and I think it is one worth exploring though I have a vague recollection of someone bringing it up on another thread, I can't remember where or what the outcome.

Cheers, Dave Smith.
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:26 am

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

ARTIFICIALITY VS. ELECTRICITY
- Hoagland didn't say hexagonal, pentagonal & similar forms necessarily indicate artificiality. He has long recognized that they can also be natural as in the clouds of Saturn and the eyes of hurricanes etc. I don't think he's ever been so hasty as to make definite conclusions about anything being artificial off-planet. He has merely pointed out intriguing images that appear to warrant a closer look for possible artificiality. It's not just the hexagonal crater on Iapetus that impressed Hoagland. The equatorial wall, the moon's low density, its geodesic dome-like shape, the unusual orbit, the numerous small rectangular structures near the hexagonal crater, as well as the seeming foreknowledge or precognitive impressions by several sci-fi writers and possibly a few other clues all combined to indicate a possibility of artificiality for Iapetus.
- It's not fair to expect scientists who don't know of or understand EU theory to consider any of those things evidence of electrical forces. I don't know that hexagonal craters can be formed by electrical discharge. I know meteor crater is a rounded square, I think, and I believe Hoagland made that observation some years ago. But I haven't heard EU theorists explain how electrical forces might produce such shapes or that any such shapes are known to have been produced electrically. Hoagland's team has studied such number patterns extensively and, if we had enough sense to seek to collaborate, instead of compete, we could probably learn a lot from their studies, as they could from ours.
- When I first read Hoagland's article a few years ago, I felt that his case for artificiality in and on Iapetus was very good. Some time later I heard Thornhill or someone claim that electrical discharge probably produces such shapes on a small scale and may be able to do so on the scale of Iapetus as well. So I figured that the case for artificiality was reduced, but still a long way from being disproven. Since I think there's still a pretty good case for artificiality there and elsewhere, to scoff at Hoagland is to scoff somewhat at me and others here too. Even if artificiality is ultimately disproven everywhere but on Earth, I still don't see any sense in scoffing at theories.
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:27 am

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

- Hi. The snowflake idea sounds like a good lead. How similar are snowflakes to Lichtenberg figures? But aside from that, Dave S said:
Lloyd I agree with most of the points you raise regarding the flaws of conventional science however, we can't throw the baby out with the bath water or we are left with nothing. My point (however unsubtle) was that we should try to maintain the current EU theme of these forums, rather than take them down the road of aliens and unicorns without first exploring the more reasonable explanations


- What if aliens and unicorns are electrical phenomena?
- Do you guys favor not thinking outside the box? Hoagland's article that I referenced on Iapetus had gobs of info. Among those gobs could be numerous ones that are directly relevant to EU theory, including the number patterns.
- I don't understand the baby and bathwater metaphor. I don't remember proposing that we throw out anything valuable. Are you thinking that I propose discarding common sense?
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:33 am

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Solar"

lk wrote:I know meteor crater is a rounded square, I think, and I believe Hoagland made that observation some years ago. But I haven't heard EU theorists explain how electrical forces might produce such shapes or that any such shapes are known to have been produced electrically.


Yes you have. The "Red Square" nebula has been pointed out as having this shape here and further elucidation of the process can be found at Holoscience. It could be theorized that with proper orientation and 'just' right circumstances a discharge could produce just such a shape. A google search for "hexagonal craters" produced this fine page amongst other results and Steve has already mentioned these six sided hexagonal figures as the result of plasma instabilities complete with a relevant link here.

Oh wait. The snowflake idea is really nice. I don't that that this would be too far of an extrapolation owing to the negative Lichtenberg formations seen at the bottom of sprites. Only with a snowflake could it be possible that the resulting pattern is the result of discharge from the negative charge build up at the bottom of what normally during springtime would've been a thundercloud?

snow.jpg
(click to view larger image)

Image from "Diffuse Glow Dynamics In Sprites" sec 1.2. pg 5 which, interesting thing of note, is an electrical engineering document! Just because the season is different doesn't mean that the dynamic doesn't work eh?

But if that's true then would that make rain drops an accretion around a negative charge?? Or something to this effect.

Now, about those unicorns...
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:34 am

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Pfhoenix"

Call me crazy, but anybody that comes to a conclusion by comparing a moon to a picture of the Death Star deserves to have their sanity questioned, if not every conclusion they come to questioned de facto.

Hoagland very much came to a definitive conclusion of alien artificiality with Iapetus. He is a huge conspiracy nut(case) and, as such, is willing to believe anything if you can put a conspiracy bent on it.

@rc-us : that nebula very clearly depicts plasma flow interacting with a Romulan Bird of Prey, proof positive that Star Trek is really history from the future sent back in time to warn everyone now of coming events. This is irrefutable.
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:38 am

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: OT Humor Reply with quote
OP "arc-us"

Pfhoenix wrote:@rc-us : that nebula very clearly depicts plasma flow interacting with a Romulan Bird of Prey, proof positive that Star Trek is really history from the future sent back in time to warn everyone now of coming events. This is irrefutable.


What a typically arrogant, intolerant viewpoint. There's just no reasoning with you is there, Pfhoenix? It's quite obvious from the painstakingly annotated picture below that Romulans and Star Trek have nothing to do with it. Dang, you can be knuckle-headed. It is more than apparent that it is a Grey from Zeta Reticuli in a trance state, complete with magical Luciferian pentagram and an open end wrench sprouting up from out of his right elbow region for obvious reasons. I'll say no more about it.

nebula_alien.jpg
nebula_alien.jpg (21.13 KiB) Viewed 239 times
(click to view larger image)

Yours in Pareidolia,
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:40 am

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: OT Humoue... Reply with quote
OP "davesmith_au"

Arc-us wrote:
Pfhoenix wrote:@rc-us : that nebula very clearly depicts plasma flow interacting with a Romulan Bird of Prey, proof positive that Star Trek is really history from the future sent back in time to warn everyone now of coming events. This is irrefutable.


What a typically arrogant, intolerant viewpoint. There's just no reasoning with you is there, Pfhoenix? It's quite obvious from the painstakingly annotated picture below that Romulans and Star Trek have nothing to do with it. Dang, you can be knuckle-headed. It is more than apparent that it is a Grey from Zeta Reticuli in a trance state, complete with magical Luciferian pentagram and a hex wrench sprouting up from out of his right elbow region for obvious reasons. I'll say no more about it.


It is good to see you two find a little common ground... 8-)

Now. When we've all stopped rolling around the floor in laughter could we please resume the topic, unicorns and dea.... oh, hang on...

The Tortured Landscape of Iapetus.

Cheers, Dave.
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:40 am

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "mgmirkin"

Yes, to quote Monty Python: "Let's not bicker and argue over who killed whose auntie! This is supposed to be a happy occasion!"

Read: the layman who comes tot he forums seeking answers probably won't want to see endless argumentative or tongue-in-cheek discussions of various foibles, so let's try to move along, eh? Decorum, and all that...

Hoagland was probably off-base. 'Nuff said. Back to the topic at hand, IE the thread title.

Cheers,
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:41 am

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

- Is it the intention of some of you guys to laugh and deride the rest of us out of this discussion? - the same tactic used by the mainstream against EU theorists et al? Are yous determined to show your lack of respect for those of us who have views different from yours?
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:42 am

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Pfhoenix"

Your question doesn't deserve a response, as it presupposes that you are claiming reasonable things, and that any criticism you receive because of that is really directed at EU itself. You have no such representation; you are suffering no unrighteous lashing.

You should seriously think about the claims you make and why they seem so reasonable to you.
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:43 am

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:00 am Post subject: Goosfraba... Repeat it with me. Goosfraba... Reply with quote
OP "mgmirkin"

That's perhaps a bit brusque (read: harsh) Pfhoenix.

I can understand from the point of view of "claims should have some reasonable basis, accountability and be subjected to scrutiny."

"If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen" metaphors aside, the dismissive tone is a bit harsh and not exactly conducive to a "friendly" atmosphere hereabouts. We're not here to dole out "lashings." Implications to the contrary don't really belong on the forum. My opinion, of course.

Constructive criticism, yes, personal attacks, no (if I may be so bold).

Let's stick to facts and not engage in disruptive interpersonal "lashings." I think we've already dealt with Hoagland's site, no need to make LK a proverbial effigy or proxy for Hoagland.

Again, if we can all move it a bit back toward the thread topic, I'm hopeful we can get back on track.

Peace,
~Michael Gm.
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:44 am

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

- The links to and quotes from Hoagland's article were quite relevant to this topic. In other words, I don't feel that my mention of his article took the discussion off track.
- And, by the way, there seems to have been a misunderstanding, since Pfhoenix said:
Your question doesn't deserve a response, as it presupposes that you are claiming reasonable things, and that any criticism you receive because of that is really directed at EU itself. You have no such representation; you are suffering no unrighteous lashing.

You should seriously think about the claims you make and why they seem so reasonable to you.


- I was not in any way claiming to represent EU theory. I was only stating my own views, which are in between Hoagland's and EU.
- If all of Hoagland's reasons for suspecting Iapetus is artificial are eventually shown to be natural effects, I'll probably stop considering the possibility of artificiality. Until then, it's entirely reasonable to consider the possibility, especially since there's much evidence in other parts of the solar system.
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:46 am

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: 3D Iapetus Reply with quote
OP "Steve Smith"

This red/blue anaglyph of the 9-10-07 flyby shows some structure similar to Hyperion, as well as the hexagonal features found elsewhere on the moon. The equatorial bulge seems to be made up of giant hexagonal blocks...

3D Iapetus

Steve
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:47 am

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: PhotoShop Boost Reply with quote
OP "Steve Smith"

Hey Dave Smith,

Can you do one of your photo transformations for me? Would you simply flip this image vertically? It looks much better "upside down". Go ahead and post it here too, please, since this thread doesn't get a lot of discussion, it doesn't matter much if the image is too big...

Large Iapetus Bulge

Thanks for your help.

Steve
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