Moon Craters

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby Bomb20 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:15 am

If I understood correct then you are suggesting that every round crater on the moon is result of impactors which cause atomic explosions. And you maintain that the roundness of craters is proving atomic explosions during or after an impact. Therefore you are excluding newtonian impactors and electromagnetic processes as potential causes of round craters. You think general features of explosions (whatever the type would be) could outrule any alternative.

Let us have a first look at one of many photos with round craters in specific structures on our Moon.
Link 1: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-362/p137.jpg

You can see top down:
a) a trench
b) a parallel running other trench (or maybe part of the same trench above) with round craters inside, especially a bigger circular crater at the right end
c) another trench or rill
d) and one more (wider) trench with a bigger round crater at the end.

If the bigger craters (b) in the picture were made by impactors causing atomic explosions - how could they fall alltogether exactly in a line in the trench? It does not work but you will find the same configuration in many, many crater chains on Moon and other celestial bodies. It is a typical feature there and it is a typical feature of technologies with discharges in the fields of metallurgy and metal working. This is also tru for the bigger crater at the end of long rills or trenches (d). IMHO this is what one can expect if EM technologies are at work or EM processes „working“ on celestial bodies in nature.

For you this must be a sheer accidental configuration or you must go back to the helpless explanations of the standard cosmology with collapsed lava tubes etc.
See (Link 2): http://www.astrosurf.com/lunascan/AS17-2321.htm

Let us have a second look, this time at photos with circular and non-circular craters in specific structures on our Moon. Link 3: http://www.damianpeach.com/barbados06/lunar/hygnius_2006_04_19.jpg

This is claimed to be the lunar caldera (sic) Hyginus at the east end of Sinus Medii.
(Compare Link 4: http://www.damianpeach.com/lunar.htm )

The crater rim is split by long, linear rilles that branches to the northwest and the east-southeast for a total length of 200 km. The graben or rille is more built by elliptical or worm like craters inside on the left of Hygnius and looking more like a collection of round craters inside on the right side. What are round „atomic“ craters doing in this trench? They can not be atomic impact craters, I think they are EM creations!

Link 5 with another illustration of this structure:
http://www.sydneyobservatory.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/hyginus-cr-chain.png

The next picture displays another chain of craters in Mendeleev crater (Link 6, first picture): http://apollo.sese.asu.edu/LIW/20081202.html

In my humble opinion it is to easy to assume that we see a series of nuclear craters in a chain there. All craters on the picture(s) - and some other types - are familiar from modern metal working and other technologies since a longer time. I see virtually no reason to attribute every round crater on Moon to atomic blasts.

In the next links we have a third look at some real impact craters, at least in my opinion! They look different to the pictures in the links above.

Look at the two pictures in link 7: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/01/05/triple_lunar_craters_investigating_a_multiple_impact_on_the_moon.html

Please, scroll down and look at the second picture to check the crater shapes. What do you see? How are you evaluating the impact craters?

(I come back on the peaks in my earlier post which you call ridges later. I am lacking time.)
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:25 pm

Bomb20 wrote:...you are excluding newtonian impactors and electromagnetic processes as potential causes of round craters.

Here is from a previous post...

CharlesChandler wrote:
Bomb20 wrote:Messier and Messier A (How could an atomic explosion create it?): http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2011/ ... stones.htm

That looks Newtonian to me.

Bomb20 wrote:And, please, have another look at https://planetary.s3.amazonaws.com/asse ... 10mpix.jpg

That looks electromagnetic to me.

The rest (i.e., the overwhelming majority) look like they are neither Newtonian nor electromagnetic. The only remaining possibility is nuclear.

So no, I'm not categorically ruling anything out.

Bomb20 wrote:If the bigger craters (b) in the picture were made by impactors causing atomic explosions - how could they fall all together exactly in a line in the trench?

Impacters frequently break up just before impact. Comet Shoemaker–Levy 9 was a famous example. As an aside, this is typically attributed to gravitational stresses, but I think that it is electrostatic. Anyway, anything that breaks up into a cluster would leave a straight line of craters.

Bomb20 wrote:Let us have a second look, this time at photos with circular and non-circular craters in specific structures on our Moon. Link 3: http://www.damianpeach.com/barbados06/lunar/hygnius_2006_04_19.jpg

That looks EM to me.

Bomb20 wrote:I see virtually no reason to attribute every round crater on Moon to atomic blasts.

Neither do I.
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby Bomb20 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:51 am

Good to know that you are not categorically ruling out anything. So, I it seems I was confused by your statement:

The reason for believing that the explosion was nuclear is the roundness of the craters. If the explosion was simply hydrodynamic, we'd expect the ejecta to be traveling at the speed of sound, which is less than 10 km/s, which means that all of the craters would be ovals.


I don´t think that roundness will help us to find out the causes for craters in general.

Impacters frequently break up just before impact. Comet Shoemaker–Levy 9 was a famous example. As an aside, this is typically attributed to gravitational stresses, but I think that it is electrostatic. Anyway, anything that breaks up into a cluster would leave a straight line of craters.


I know. That is not what I tried to express. In fact it is not possible that breaking impactors would fall in lines so frequently in rills, trenches or grabens, always in alignment with these structures. Therefore it seems reasonable to think that all or most of these examples are EM - as you confirmed in this case. However, one should also note that the round craters within these EM structures look like an awful many craters outside of the trenches, single craters and crater groups. So, we probably have an enormous number of round EM craters all over the Moon.

To all:
I wonder that I could only find one try to categorize all craters on Moon on the anti-science websites of Mr. Setterfield. It seems obvious to me that he "lifted" many ideas of the Tunderbolts for his purposes and is bringing this group in miscredit. No wonder, that self-declared "guards of science" are trying to fight creationist ideas and use the good opportunity to fight alternative ideas in the same moment.
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby Sparky » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:19 am

CC:
Anyway, anything that breaks up into a cluster would leave a straight line of craters.


Depending on force of ejected pieces and their numbers, maybe several offset, straight lines... :D ;)
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby justcurious » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:53 pm

bomb20: Great pictures, thanks! And great commentary, I'm always interested in learning about real-life experiences with machine discharge, metallurgy etc.
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby Bomb20 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:11 am

Indeed, Sparky! Sadly, I could not rediscover the film which showed that not all impacts on Jupiter were "in line".

Yes, justcurious, it could be helpful to collect pictures of different technologies working with plasmas and controlled (or more important: accidently uncontrolled) EM discharges. I regret that afore mentioned ray gun technology was removed in this enterprise in the later 1990´s, probably for economic reasons. I would like to get the manual with the surface mistakes but I am afraid it is lost. By the way when I was introduced to the chief engineer and Schichtleiter ("leader of the shift") at the start of my practice there he mentioned plasma cosmology without going into any detail. Later I asked one worker (in fact they were all engineers) about the reasons for specific forms of surface failures after discharges, like the strange patterns and bands or chains of craters, but he could not answer my question (It was rather a questions for the scientists/inventors). It was only interesting for him to recognize the mistakes and remove them later.
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby Bomb20 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:26 am

And I am still wondering about most-likely ongoing EM activities in moon craters like Aristarchus:
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Moon7/Aristarcus/Aristarcus_CL_02.png

There are way too many incidents reported and pictures made (like this one allegedly with "electric blue") to deny ongoing EM activities.

And the whole area around Aristarcus looks EM to me:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Aristarchus_and_Herodotus_craters_Apollo_15.jpg
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:14 am

I had another thought that some people might find interesting. Some of those craters look like the Moon's crust was molten. If there was a discharge, perhaps it partially melted the crust, or perhaps the craters were formed when the Moon was still quite hot, and the crust was just beginning to solidify. That presents an interesting possibility concerning craters along rifts. I've said before that the alignment of craters to rifts (if present) is beyond chance, and I'm sticking with that. But that doesn't prove that the craters and/or the rifts were caused by EM. They could have been impact craters, hitting a thin crust that was just beginning to form, and the crust could have "cracked" due to the impacts. Subsequent tectonic forces might have then opened or closed the cracks. For that matter, the craters might have merely weakened the crust, by focusing stresses, and then tectonic forces could have cracked the crust. If you take a sheet of glass, and drill a row of holes in the middle of it, and then flex the glass, where is it going to crack? Along the row of holes, of course. And why are rows of craters more common than chance? Because some impacters break up just before impact.

The reason why I was thinking about this is that after having said that craters along rifts looked EM to me, I couldn't figure out why there are two distinct morphologies there -- the rift is a continuous crack, and then there are these round craters. If the whole thing was EM, I'd expect the "craters" to be dwell points, and the rifts to be skip stretches, and the EDM should be more or less continuous. So the craters would be just a matter of degree, not a difference in kind, compared to the rifts.

Anyway, this one looks like the round craters were squashed into ovals by subsequent tectonic pressure, because the rift is actually a pressure ridge:

https://planetary.s3.amazonaws.com/asse ... 10mpix.jpg
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby Bomb20 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:30 am

I found more food for thoughts as well: the distribution of 5185 big Moon craters (> 20 km):

http://sservi.nasa.gov/articles/global-distribution-of-large-lunar-craters-implications-for-resurfacing-and-impactor-populations/

A rather superfical first reading of the article seems to suggest: The distribution of craters (> 20 km size) on the Moon is not equal. There is a bigger number and density of craters in the highlands. Only a few number of the big craters is situated in the dark and deep Marie.

So, the question must be raised: Why did the process (whatever it is) of crater creation for big craters prefer the highlands and was rather ignoring lowlands?
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:50 am

Bomb20 wrote:Why did the process (whatever it is) of crater creation for big craters prefer the highlands and was rather ignoring lowlands?

The article suggests that the highlands solidified first, and continue to bear the marks of impacts occurring at that time, which included larger objects. The lowlands would have received the same number impacts per unit area during that time, but the molten rock didn't preserve the craters. After the lowlands had solidified, the impacter population had changed. I don't know if there is any way to corroborate this.
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:00 am

And why are rows of craters more common than chance? Because some impacters break up just before impact.


Seems that would form a scattered "cluster". Unless most of the debris was shoved forward and backward to line of movement. ;)

Say an asteroid broke into four pieces, which were scattered fore and aft of the travel path, at a distance of 100ft between them.? At the speeds these things travel, and hitting a moving object, what would the string of craters look like? :?
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:04 am

Sparky wrote:Seems that would form a scattered "cluster".

That would be true if the impacter exploded from within. But I don't think that this is what happens, because I don't see what forces would operate from the inside. Rather, I think that the force that breaks up the impacter is electrostatic. This would pull all of the charge over to the side facing the Moon. A force in the direction of the Moon would break up the impacter into a vertical column of pieces, which would hit the surface in a line.
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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby nick c » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:05 am

Bomb20 wrote:And I am still wondering about most-likely ongoing EM activities in moon craters like Aristarchus:
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients ... _CL_02.png

There are way too many incidents reported and pictures made (like this one allegedly with "electric blue") to deny ongoing EM activities.

And the whole area around Aristarcus looks EM to me:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... llo_15.jpg





That area has historically been associated with TLP (transient lunar phenomena). And perhaps related to that is the fact that the Aristarchus area was also found to have an anomalous level of radioactivity.

A short article on the Aristarchus area by Ralph Juergens:
Electrical Discharges and the Transmutation of Elements
Explaining the radioactivity at Aristarchus
[...]
But if interplanetary electric discharges may be considered natural phenomena with driving potentials upward of 100 billion volts, they would appear capable of accelerating heavy ions to energies quite adequate to produce a variety of radioactive isotopes at "cathode" impact sites.


The highlands are an expected site for an electrical discharge:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/ ... bution.htm
Electric Universe pioneer Ralph Juergens explained the structure of Tycho Crater on the Moon in electrical terms:

"The visual evidence suggests that triggering electrons for the Tycho discharge were assembled by means of an atmospheric-breakdown process that drew them from numerous distant points in all directions and hauled them over the surface to a common collection point. On the far side of the Moon are several more long-rayed craters, presumably marking sites where much the same thing happened; these, too, are located in highland terrain."

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Re: New Crater on Moon

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:54 am

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New Gigapan picture of the Moon's North Pole

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:14 pm

NASA has released a Gigapan picture of the Moon's North Pole featuring a 2-meter/pixel resolution.

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/gigapan/

Check it out, and be sure to click on three very important things:
    1. Choose the "Gigapan without Nomenclature" tab above the picture, then
    2. Click on the "full screen" icon below the left-side navigation controls, then
    3. Click on the "view all" icon just above the "full screen" one.

Now isn't that interesting?

Not only are there crater chains galore, but... a great many of them SPIRAL around the pole.

Some quick Photoshop layering work shows me that I think the argument can be made that some (not all) of these spirals display the "natural log / golden spiral" structure that one tends to encounter from time to time in electrical phenomena (to put it mildly).

I may post an overlaid picture to show what I'm talking about, if it is still legible once I get it reduced to the parameters required here. But nevertheless, go feast your eyes!
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