Moon Craters

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:12 pm

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "redeye"

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA06064

A good image of the "spiral structure"
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:14 pm

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "SeaSmith"

PIA06064_modest.jpg


:?:
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:17 pm

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Dunes in Noachis Reply with quote
OP "dahlenaz"

Steve Smith wrote:Dave,

Good review of the crater and the formations. The electrical nature of the formation seems obvious, doesn't it? Once electricity is in your mind, you see the examples everywhere you look.

Dunes in Noachis

Dune Whiskers in Noachis Terra

Ebony and Ivory

The last image is particularly interesting. In the Mars in Miniature Picture of the Day, we briefly referred to one of our ideas that the silicon dioxide substrate that forms the 'floor' of Mars can be transmuted into iron through the action of the electric arcs. In the image, that process looks plausible.

Just like Proctor, Gale, Russell, Wirtz and virtually every other crater on Mars, there are the 'frozen' dunes on the bottom. In the Mars in Miniature Picture of the Day we mentioned that the dunes look solid rather than frangible. The same concept probably works at every scale....

Steve


As a close comparison to the Maunder crater image, this image from plasmatic.... should be reviewed closely.

rhondapic2127nd3s85.jpg

Credit: Plasmatic MnemoHistory
If you look real close at the dark-centered feature in middle frame you will see what appears to be dune-like structures.

The Hyperion example shows us the process that Wal describes as associated with comets through the EDM process. Hard surfaces and intense discharge give us specific features and their age seems to be a point to focus on, based on the depth of deposits. Once all the action ceases would we see a clowd of super-fine material rapidly return to the surface, I'd expect so.
The various discharge experiments give us a number of detail to use in gathering a sense of timeframe and processes.
Clearly the intense discharges do the largest amount of sculpting, and subsequent to this i'd expect another form in that of breif discharges but there remains a need to establish the state of charge that bodies can develope to accomplish activity in the realm of static discharges to passing bodies. I suspect they occure, based on what has been seen in experiments and experienced in our natural world.
I would suggest a focus to differentiate between features and then determine expectations about redoposition of material to determine age estimations. I expect that the timeframe is very short.
Once Comet Holmes ceases its brite show we may have something to give us some needed clues.
There is a third type of process that we should not overlook, fallout from extracted. In fine dust, the imprint is unmistakable and can be replicated with relative ease the next time you're tossing around Arizona top soil (flood deposits). dahlenaz http://www.dahlendesigns.com
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:19 pm

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: Craters in fiberglass powder. Low energy discharge Reply with quote
OP "dahlenaz"

These features were made during CRT experiments with fiberglass. The power was on and they initially were not as pronounced as they became after a short period of time.

aftershot_crop.jpg


I normally would not post images here at the forum so as to minimize download times so these are just a sampling of what in being housed on the site http://www.electric-spark-scars.com. Go the superlink page to pick through all the images. dz
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:20 pm

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "redeye"

In fact you may want to put a post on that thread to bring it to the surface again


Okay. But only if I can be devil's advocate!

http://www.mantleplumes.org/WebDocuments/Antip_hot.pdf

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/purl.cover.j ... bviewable/

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/1839.pdf

Interesting evidence for conventional impacts...and against tectonic plate theory.

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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:21 pm

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: circular craters Reply with quote
OP "nick c"

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/1839.pdf

Interesting evidence for conventional impacts...and against tectonic plate theory.


Assuming that of all the craters, craterlets, pits, and like formations observed on various celestial bodies, some percentage (large if you are mainstream, small if you subscribe to EU) are the result of impacts.
If impactors were to, randomly, over a period of time, strike a terrestial type body, I would assume that the different angles of impact would produce craters with a wide range of shapes from highly elliptical to circular. A look at the Moon (and most other solid bodies in the solar system) reveals the vast majority of craters to be circular.
But Phil Plait wrote on Bad Astronomy:
They fire at different angles, using different rocks with different compositions, and make the surface have different properties as well. They have found that the craters formed are indeed like those on the Moon. It's pretty conclusive."





-are there experiments that show oblique angles of impact produce circular (not elliptical) craters?
-what about central peaks whose composition seems to be consistent with the surrounding terrain, as if they were unaffected by the processes that produced the crater, have these too been produced in the lab?
-and while we're at it...terracing of crater walls? bulls eye craters? crater chains? hexagonal shapes?... all produced in a lab with impacts?
There have been many TPOD's on the subject,
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00sub ... tm#Craters
Have any of the regulars here (who often debate these issues on BAUT, space.com, slashdot, etc) been shown these "conclusive" lab experiments on impact craters?
Maybe someone could post a link, picture, or just an opinion.
Nick
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:26 pm

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: Re: *Groan* Here's another obvious contender... Reply with quote
OP "viscount aero"

davesmith_au wrote:How's this from physorg.com.

hummockyands.jpg
hummockyands.jpg (13.6 KiB) Viewed 7218 times


Credit: ESA/DLR/FU Berlin (G. Neukum)
<snip>
Cheers, Dave.


Yes the typical explanation, ie, "impact" is ridiculous and reaching in this case.

Thing is, if the material "ejecta" simply fell back into the hole, thus collapsing back, why do they not say this has happened on other craters? Other "impact" ejecta are strewn, apparently, far from the crater leaving the tell-tale bowl shape.

But because this one is anomalous, the ejecta must have fallen directly back in.

But the reaching knee-jerk impact idea doesn't stop there.

What about crater chains? Those are all impacts, too? With no ejecta fields to speak of? And in geometric alignment and regularity of size? For miles long? What about perfectly formed craters on the rims of craters --on the rims of craters-- that appear to have formed all at the same time, during the same event?

If there isn't an ejecta field and the crater is extremely flat-bottomed or very shallow relative to it's diameter --with no ejecta field-- then the crater floor melted and flattened out when cooling, an all other material vaporized?

But wait.. . the material in the Martian crater pictured did not vaporize or "eject"--most of it seems to have stayed intact, eg, fallen back inside the hole.

So which is it?


The ejecta vaporizes?

Is carried away some distance?

Or it just isn't there?

Or, no, it is there... but it fell back into the crater?


Because the impact theory is the blanketing "theory of everything," it is the default idea that must be made to work in every case, even if every case is not warranting of the theory.


They need to decide what is going on if the impact theory holds true for every single crater feature.
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:28 pm

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:14 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "viscount aero"

SeaSmith wrote:
<snip image>

:?:


This is another example of a heavily pockmarked body that throws into question the impact crater idea:

This tiny body was hit from ALL sides? From every possible angle of the 360-degree sphere with meteorites? And the big 'impact" pictured on it's lit side did not destroy this tiny body?
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:29 pm

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "junglelord"

I admit that up until I read this thread I did not buy into this part of the concept of the EU. Certainly not to the ratio of Plasma Discharge vs Impact that the group seemed to be vouching for.
:oops:

I am now a believer. Very well done.
8-)
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:29 pm

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "viscount aero"

Another trite catch phrase that is often used when impacts don't quite match up are "tidal forces."

This is most often used in the Jovian context when talking about Io or even at Saturn and Enceladus. It is even used to explain away the mysterious markings on Mars' moon Phobos. It is said that the geometric streaking features, with the crater chains embedded in the features being exempt or ignored, are somehow created by "tidal forces" from Mars.

Yet the explanations are always vague and do not really explain the features at all. The crater chains and the linear parallel markings are one and the same integrated structure and feature, intermixed and created at the same time. Tidal forces did not create the linear markings on the one hand, with, then "impactors" creating the crater chains at another time.

By looking at the features with the naked eye you can see this was not the case.

But due to lack of creative imagination and default to rote learning, the mainstream explanations are not questioned and remain viable ideas when, really, they are ludicrous and non-explanatory of much of anything in this context.
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:30 pm

That's all the recovered posts I have for this thread.

- 30 -
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Re: Recovered: Impac Shmimpact...

Unread postby MGmirkin » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:56 pm

DaveSmith_AU wrote:What about crater chains? Those are all impacts, too? With no ejecta fields to speak of? And in geometric alignment and regularity of size? For miles long?


No, crater chains are "sinkholes" or due to something "hidden below the surface" that we can't possibly access, thus it must be unquestioningly accepted! Submit! Submit, I say! You won't submit? Well, sh--t! (Shoot!) :D

Wait, did I misunderstand you? You expected clarity / consistency of through from these people?

One crater can be caused by an impact. Another crater can be caused by a sinkhole. The next is a volcanic caldera (in a region without evidence of volcanism, mind you). But none of them could POSSIBLY be caused electrically!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7dbs5QAMOqc
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WB_EKVWgbj8
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3rqQnUCiWQo

Shhh! We're not supposed to say the e-word (electricity!)... Or the l-word (logic!)...

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Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:45 am

This is actually the merging of two related but previously separate threads:

1) The Tortured Landscape of Iapetus (missing old forum pg 3 posts)
2) Hexagonal Craters
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:50 am

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: The Tortured Landscape of Iapetus Reply with quote
OP "Steve Smith"

Looks like this Picture of the Day is timely. Professor Archetype was asking about hexagonal craters in another thread and pointed to one near the equator of Iapetus.

It's pretty clear that Iapetus has been blasted by some kind of high energy discharge. Whether it was an electric arc, like a lightning bolt or a corona discharge, or some kind of particle beam like a proton flare similar to a coronal mass ejection, the surface has been gouged by something.

Since one of the instabilities that forms in plasma is hexagonal in shape (at least one other is pentagonal), it's at least possible that the remains of that shape would be left behind when an arc impacted the surface. Since Iapetus is 1400 kms in diameter, 600 km craters are hard to justify in an imapct scenario. Especially since they have no blast effects like ejecta surrounding the crater, or distortion of the crater rim. In fact, just like other moons, craters on Iapetus have scalloped edges in many cases.

iapetus_shading.jpg
(click to view larger image)

Another thing about Iapetus is the crater chains and "wind streaks". Obviously an anomaly in a hard vacuum environment...

Iapetus Crater Chains

Steve
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Re: Recovered: Hexagonal Craters

Unread postby bboyer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:53 am

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

- The article says, "The appearance of this landslide on an icy satellite....", but why doesn't it look like ice close up? Here are 2 other TPODs on Iapetus: http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch ... apetus.htm
http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch ... us-eye.htm
- And here's a long article by Hoagland with many images and factoids: http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon1.htm
A comparison with a real sphere (below-right) reveals that, from this angle, Iapetus is visibly “squashed” -- by something like 50 miles out of its 900, or about 5%. For solid rocky bodies larger than a few hundred miles across, the relentless force of gravity always overcomes the innate tensile strength of such materials, and forces them to assume a spherical geometry. For solid icy bodies (those possessing less tensile strength), the limiting size before a sphere is formed is even smaller.


- So why isn't Iapetus spherical? And why does so much of the surface structure look artificial?
http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon2.htm
If you look again at many of the “craters,” you can see that they are, in fact, deformed hexagons (below). ... The image in the right reveals the remarkable distribution of same-size “craters” newly imaged on Iapetus – “coincidentally” arrayed at roughly equal distances from each other, and … all on the same “latitude” … parallel to the Great Equatorial Wall! ... If I am correct, what we are seeing as “geometrically arranged craters” on Iapetus are, in fact, structurally-defined surface collapse features – revealing key weak points in the basic sub-modules of this “artificial moon.” It stands to engineering reason that such a huge “world structure” would be assembled fractally – by building it up from multitudes of identical, smaller units – using the fundamental principal of the “tetrahedral truss.” ... Look again at the “Saturn shine” image of Iapetus (below-left). In the overexposed sunlit portion, the limb of the moon – rather than being round (like Mimas or Dione) – is plainly composed of a set of sharply slanted planes (below-right) …. The exact number is difficult to reconstruct (because of the overexposure and the viewing angle), but the outlined areas appear to mark at least six (tetrahedral?) amazingly flat “sides” – each measuring hundreds of miles in length!


- I consider the artificiality hypothesis to be reasonable, and whether that turns out to be correct or not, Hoagland's evidence of tetrahedral and related geometrical features on many bodies seems to be a promising one for inclusion with EU theory.
http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon3.htm
http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon4.htm
http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon5.htm
http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon6.htm
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