Asteroids

[LongtimeAirman]

Sparky,

You do have an unusual hypothesis, derived from Miles' "charge photon".You do know that photons do not have a charge, except from bombardment effect.And they are very small! And solar wind ions are big! I see the charge that a comet experiences is that of induced negative from distant solar space, then discharging into the more positive sun. I propose an RCL circuit.

I hope I'm not misrepresenting Mr. Mathis. Photons do not have a charge but they are the basis of the EM field. The photon has a radius, mass and spin. Photon bombardment includes a spin torque as well. They're small all right, Miles calculates the photon radius to be 7.1x10-11 smaller than the electron. But what they lack in size they make up for in numbers and relativistic punch.

But what is an induced negative? An abundance of electrons? How can those electrons discharge into the more positive sun except by the comet crashing into the sun? The electrons trying to reach the sun by themselves would face the constant resistance of the solar wind and photon pressure. How can that happen? "Positives attract negatives" is not a mechanical explanation.

How would loss of matter induce stress?  Seems that would reduce any stress... The stress is an electrical stress, whether mechanically or directly electrically induced, isn't it?Also, I really doubt that a comet gets and retains much heat from the sun. Not at distances near Saturn or farther. ANy heat would be internal from an electric source.Do you agree that we are talking about a rock, not an ice  ball?

The material lost is mainly from the surface, and the increasing stress is from internal fractures. Again, photons define the EM field and heat the comet inside and out. The only way to dissipate the heat is by reradiating the photons back into space. The comet's re-radiation of photons from within itself is what launches the ions and dust particles off of the comet's surface to collect into the coma and tails. Of course we're talking rocks and whatever the rocks are made of. New compounds are being cooked on and within the comet's surface as the comet slowly dissolves.

Thanks for taking the time to engage in dialogue. It's fun trying to keep up with you.

REMcB

[Sparky]

Airman:

The electrons trying to reach the sun by themselves would face the constant resistance of the solar wind and photon pressure. How can that happen?

That hypothesis is part of the Electric Sun. I can only guess that the small size of a electron allows them to dodge the +ions. The Charge photon pressure is an effect at very local distances, isn't it? Electron to nucleus, etc.... Once the local interaction is experienced, the Cphoton inters the charge field. Charge field must be omni=directional, unless on a larger local distance, such as a planet to moon. Then, as I understand LeSage, the "shadow effect" would be in play. So, there indeed would be Cphotons from the sun which would impede some electrons. But, they are very small and the probability of interaction is ???

The comet's re-radiation of photons from within itself is what launches the ions and dust particles off of the comet's surface to collect into the coma and tails.

I don't remember the Miles' Cphoton hypothesis too well, But, ions would be emitting Cphotons as well , wouldn't they? It is proposed that electrons are stripped off the matter and ejected, while stripping other bits of matter, into the coma and tail. The internal breakdown of a rock is something that I don't understand, except that chemical/electrical bonds are broken and products are released. +

New compounds are being cooked on and within the comet's surface as the comet slowly dissolves.

Do you mean by chemical dissociation ?
My hypothesis is that the coma is a large conductor surface for the electrons to complete the circuit to the sun, via the solar wind. The tail is also a large conductor surface which may connect to the solar wind or possibly to a negative source for some time...I need some help to flesh that out.

Thanks.....this is my morning brain exercise....will stand corrected if I am in error.

[Solar]

SThe electrons trying to reach the sun by themselves would face the constant resistance of the solar wind and photon pressure. How can that happen? "Positives attract negatives" is not a mechanical explanation.

Just to make a note here. Sunward bound electrons do occur. There does exist "suprathermal electron fluxes" in the sunward direction as a result of being accelerated by "shocks" in what are called "CIR"s (Co-rotating Interaction Regions). Here is a Search for this via Google:

Sunward Bound Electrons

[LongtimeAirman]

Thanks Solar, I'll need time to study this Suprathermal electron flow subject, but I agree, sunward bound electrons do occur.

I believe there's an easy answer to "How do electrons get to the sun?". According to Mathis, the charge field cycles through all bodies, from the galactic to the subatomic. Due to spin and angular momentum the charge field enters the sun at the poles and is emitted primarily from the equator. Electrons approaching the equator will experience the greatest resistance from the charge field while electrons approaching from above the poles will be boosted by the incoming charge field. It might seem surprising to learn that more photons actually enter the sun than leave it. In this way, the sun and planets do indeed form a circuit.

Sparky, So you have read some of Miles' work. Prehaps the most important fact is that the charge field is in opposition to gravity. At all levels.

Sparky said: It is proposed that electrons are stripped off the matter and ejected, while stripping other bits of matter, into the coma and tail.

I did say that it is unlikely to find free electrons on comets, since I believe they would be swept away by the charge field. The way I understand it, as the comet approaches the sun, the charge field increases its cycling current thoughout all the matter comprising the comet, directly resulting in increasing heat, ionization, molecular and eventually atomic, breakdown. The photons emitted by the comet itself overwhelm the comet's gravity field to lift lighter material off the surface. The floating particles maintain spacing by recycling the charge field (bombarding their neighbors). The "local" strength of the solar (or other nearby objects) charge field, along with the charge recycling capacity of the cometary matter will determine how the coma or tail form.

I may not be convincing anyone else but I'm certainly convincing myself.

REMcB

[Sparky]

Airman: --- the charge field increases its cycling current thoughout all the matter comprising the comet---------free electrons on comets, since I believe they would be swept away by the charge field.

The free electrons move through the coma and tail to form those phenomenon.

I don't understand a charge field cycling current? Also, I really have a problem with the different "spins" that Miles uses to explain his hypothesis.

---charge field enters the sun at the poles and is emitted primarily from the equator.

Cphotons are omnidirectional in the field, and the field is onmi-prestent.

How can the charge field of Cphotons enter as a current and be expelled as a current?

It seems that if there is a current, it is the electrons/ions/charges.

Remember , there are three modes of plasma: Dark, glow, and arc. The coma and tail are in glow mode, which means that there is a current flow, whatever that may be.

If there is a plasma current, there is a circuit, according to EU.

I am not here to convince anyone, just expressing what little I think that I understand and pointing out what supports my understanding, and continually learning..

I think that you are introducing a level of complexity that is not needed in order to explain many things that we see, comets, planets, stars, etc...Example: We don't need to think about water molecules when we are confronted with all of them rupturing a dam. ....

For me, charges, ions, and magnetic fields get complicated enough...

[Max Photon]

This is not aimed at any poster or post in this thread; this is merely a gentle friendly reminder to the Universe at large that with respect to electrical circuits, electrons (or other "charge carriers") really need not go anywhere.

In AC circuits, electrons just jiggle their booty. ( That's the technical explanation.)

[Sparky]

This is not aimed at any poster or post in this thread; this is merely a gentle friendly reminder to the Universe at large that with respect to electrical circuits, electrons (or other "charge carriers") really need not go anywhere.

In AC circuits, electrons just jiggle their booty. ( That's the technical explanation.)

Most plasma circuits are not AC.... ....And we are talking about charges that do move, creating whatever plasma electric is. ireallydonnowhatishappeningatzeropoint. ....

[nick c]

I would be interested in learning if anyone has some ideas about how this asteroid came to be under enough electrical stress to take on a cometary appearance. How does this fit into the electric comet model?

Centaur asteroids display cometary characteristics but cross the orbit of one or more planets. P/2013 P5 does not seem to fall into that category.

I would like to see the orbital diagram, but cannot access it, as I keep getting a broken link. Has this asteroid passed near a planet or intercepted a birkeland current from the Sun, or other?
Here is the NASA information:
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi#top
Type in P/2013 P5 in the search function.

TPOD:

Exposing an asteroid to an intense electric field over time will most likely create a comet

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2011/ ... eroids.htm

[Sparky]

Has this asteroid passed near a planet or intercepted a birkeland current from the Sun, or other?

It is in contact with the solar wind. This must have some affect.

Steve says that exposure to electric field would induce charge. Wouldn't a movement through a magnetic field induce voltage? I would suspect asteroid's chemistry as a factor, also...

[Dotini]

I would be interested in learning if anyone has some ideas about how this asteroid came to be under enough electrical stress to take on a cometary appearance. How does this fit into the electric comet model?

Centaur asteroids display cometary characteristics but cross the orbit of one or more planets. P/2013 P5 does not seem to fall into that category.

I would like to see the orbital diagram, but cannot access it, as I keep getting a broken link. Has this asteroid passed near a planet or intercepted a birkeland current from the Sun, or other?
Here is the NASA information:
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi#top
Type in P/2013 P5 in the search function.

TPOD:

Exposing an asteroid to an intense electric field over time will most likely create a comet

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2011/ ... eroids.htm

P/2013 P5 became active at roughly the same time dynamic new comet Ison transited the asteroid belt, did it not? It would be interesting to establish how close the two came together. Shouldn't Ison be added to the list of suspects?

[LongtimeAirman]

I may be a bit off topic here but I'm compelled to answer some questions.

Sparky said: The free electrons move through the coma and tail to form those phenomenon.

Sparky, I do not understand how that can work. Even starting with an induced negative comet, how could there be a sufficient number of free electrons to transfer enough charge to bring each dust particle and ion to a million-mile wide coma or tail to glow-mode despite the presence of the dominant solar wind? I have been a proponent of the Electric Universe among my friends for several years even though I cannot believe in the current electric comet model. I'm committing the small blasphemy of speaking for Miles Mathis at the Thunderbolts forum because he offers (in my opinion) a real mechanical basis to explain an Electric Universe.

Sparky said: I don't understand a charge field cycling current? Also, I really have a problem with the different "spins" that Miles uses to explain his hypothesis. ---charge field enters the sun at the poles and is emitted primarily from the equator... Cphotons are omnidirectional in the field, and the field is onmi-prestent.  How can the charge field of Cphotons enter as a current and be expelled as a current?  It seems that if there is a current, it is the electrons/ions/charges.

A photon has mass, (a radius) and spin. The spin can be left (axis pointed up) or right (axis pointed down). The universe is literally full of photons, and they are in constant motion. The photon is the basic unit of matter (not that silly Higgs thing). Starting with a single photon you can add more "layers" of spin and many more photons to create electrons, mesons and baryons, (I still don't have a satisfactory mental image for that continuum). Photons can flow in unision, (a "charge field"). A charge field can easily push, or drive, electrons, protons, or ions, (forming what we would see as an electric current, or heat). Photons can be spin aligned (which we would see as a magnetic field if there were electrons, protons, or ions present). All mater is made of photons and there is a continuous cycling of photons throughout all matter. Photon cycling (bombardment) prevent electrons from coming into contact with a nucleus. If matter is spinning, such as the sun, the photons generally cycle into the poles and out the equator. The charge field oposses gravity to enable stable, self correcting orbits. Most of our material selves were created from photons that probably originated in the center of our galaxy and cycled through the sun before becoming us. We exist in a relatively benign charge field here on earth, and benign charge field currents pass through us. If you dropped us into interstellar space the greater charge field current would evaporate us. The solar charge field can turn asteroids into comets.

Sparky said: I am not here to convince anyone, just expressing what little I think that I understand and pointing out what supports my understanding, and continually learning.

And childlike innocence. You ask questions. More power to you. I'm sorry I didn't get to all your questions; But really, considering the ground covered, how complicated was that? I want to share what I think I've learned, and I want to learn more too!

REMcB

[Sparky]

Sparky said: The free electrons move through the coma and tail to form those phenomenon.

Airman: I do not understand how that can work. Even starting with an induced negative comet, how could there be a sufficient number of free electrons to transfer enough charge to bring each dust particle and ion to a million-mile wide coma or tail to glow-mode despite the presence of the dominant solar wind?

I don't understand it either, but there it is. Glow modes all over the place. What causes a glow mode?

Sparky said: I don't understand a charge field cycling current? Also, I really have a problem with the different "spins" that Miles uses to explain his hypothesis. ---charge field enters the sun at the poles and is emitted primarily from the equator... Cphotons are omnidirectional in the field, and the field is onmi-prestent. How can the charge field of Cphotons enter as a current and be expelled as a current? It seems that if there is a current, it is the electrons/ions/charges.

Ok, maybe the charge field appears to be a current because of the electrons producing them...that's all that I can come up with...

A photon has mass, (a radius) and spin. The spin can be left (axis pointed up) or right (axis pointed down).

errrrr, what's up and where is down? Same for left and right?

Starting with a single photon you can add more "layers" of spin and many more photons to create electrons, mesons and baryons, .

Too complex for me...

Photons can flow in unision, (a "charge field").

Way to complex for me...

A charge field can easily push, or drive, electrons, protons, or ions, (forming what we would see as an electric current, or heat)

Wrong thread for that;;; there is A" what is electricity" thread somewhere for further discussion on that... I am still baffled by origin of electric current.

If you dropped us into interstellar space the greater charge field current would evaporate us.

...... ..... ..cooool!

thankyou.....

ps: We need to get back to EU...There is also a Miles thread or two where his hypothesis and model is discussed.

psss: I still think you are making it more difficult than need be to explain electric phenomenon...It's hard enough with charges.....

[Max Photon]

Has this asteroid passed near a planet or intercepted a birkeland current from the Sun, or other?

It is in contact with the solar wind. This must have some affect.

Steve says that exposure to electric field would induce charge. Wouldn't a movement through a magnetic field induce voltage? I would suspect asteroid's chemistry as a factor, also...

Was that Steve Clerk Maxwell?

Yes to your question -- Faraday's Law of Induction.

Perhaps this thread should exhaust Maxwell's Equations before going the extra Miles.


I applaud Dotini's point about ISON being a possible suspect for correlation with P5's cometary behavior.

[Max Photon]

Perhaps this thread should exhaust Maxwell's Equations before going the extra Miles.

Actually, let me retract that; what do I know? I know nothing of Miles' output. (Sorry Miles.)

Plus, Maxwell's Equations are only a classical model of electromagnetism, and fail at the quantum mechanical level.

So, to be all-inclusive, let's all work on a:

Quantumelectrodynamicmagnetohydrodynamicclassicalgravitationalorbitaldynamic Model of Cometary Bodies

[Sparky]

Quantumelectrodynamicmagnetohydrodynamicclassicalgravitationalorbitaldynamic

Miles introduced a Cphoton for space charge....and it seems to work.....but so does Newton's equation. According to Miles, charge was accidentally part of Newton's gravity equation.

I wonder what is "accidentally" part of Miles' Cphoton equations?

Or part of Quantumelectrodynamicmagnetohydrodynamics?