Mars - Craters

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Craters and Shatter Cones

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:06 pm

* Over a year ago I first heard that some shatter cones are magnetized. And I thought that sounds like something electricity could do, as from lightning. Can anything other than electricity make anything magnetic? The trouble is that rocks under stress can apparently produce electric currents. But can those little rock currents magnetize rock the way a big current from lightning can?
* One website has this paragraph on shatter cones. "Shatter cones that may form beneath a meteorite impact crater are similar to what happens on a SMALL scale when a BB strikes a window and pops a cone out of the glass pane. The sharp end faces toward the impact, and the larger circular base faces away from it. Shatter cones occur on a LARGE scale when a sufficiently massy object strikes Earth. Billions of tons of rock are vaporized. Below that, rock is shattered and melted. As shock waves speed through hard rocks below and surrounding these rocks, they leave shatter cones in their wake, fossilized shock waves, their points facing toward the direction of impact. "
* One problem with the bolide impact theory seems to be that fractured rock is often not found under craters. Isn't that correct? Isn't that true of Meteor Crater?
* Another website says:
Shocked Quartz:
- has a microscopic structure that is different from normal quartz;
- was discovered after underground nuclear bomb testing;
- is found worldwide, in a thin K-T Boundary;
- can only be formed by intense pressure at moderate temperature, as high temperatures would anneal the quartz back to its standard form;
- is indicative of impact (or nuclear explosion) [or lightning etc?].
* Hmm. If the K-T Boundary contains a lot of shocked quartz, would that mean worldwide impacts? Or worldwide electrical activity, like lightning?
* Shatter cones are considered to be produced by shock waves, as is also shocked quartz, and lightning is known to produce shock waves, but no one seems to think about lightning producing shatter cones. So I just did a net search for anything that might connect shocked quartz to lightning and I found the following interesting material at http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~mpasek/Pasek_CV.pdf. Check out his publications.
Matthew A. Pasek
Department of Geology
University of South Florida
4202 E. Fowler Ave
Tampa FL 33620
Phone: (813)-974-8979
Fax: (813)-974-2474
Visiting Assistant Professor of Geochemistry, University of South Florida 01/09-05/10
Research Goals:
1) To constrain the role of meteorites in the origin of life from the perspective
phosphorus redox biogeochemistry
2) To constrain the aqueous redox geochemistry of phosphorus
3) To constrain the effects of lightning on geologic samples
4) To detail chemical processes occurring in the solar system
Invited Talks and Presentations
Shocked quartz and lightning- rethinking impact hypotheses.
University of Washington, 6/10
Peer- Reviewed Publications (14 published, 3 under review, H = 6)
Pasek, M.A., Collins, G.S., Carter, E.A., and Melosh, H.J., 2010, Shock Metamorphism of
Quartz by Lightning.
Nature Geoscience, in prep.
Carter, E.A., Pasek, M.A., Smith, T., Kee, T.P., Hines, P., and Edwards, H.G.M., 2010, Rapid
Raman mapping of a fulgurite. Analytical and Bioanalytical Chemistry 397, 2647-2658.
Bryant, D.E., Greenfield, D., Walshaw, R.D., Evans, S.M., Nimmo, A.E., Smith, C., Wang, L.
Pasek, M.A., and Kee, T.P., 2009, Electrochemical studies of iron meteorites.
Phosphorus redox chemistry on the early Earth. International Journal of Astrobiology
8, 27-36.
Pasek, M.A., 2008, Rethinking early Earth phosphorus geochemistry. Proceedings of the
National Academy of Sciences USA 105, 853-858.
Owens, B.E. and Pasek, M.A., 2007, Kyanite quartzites in the Piedmont Province of Virginia:
evidence for protolith production in a high-sulfidation hydrothermal system. Economic
Geology 102, 495-509.
Pasek, M.A. and Lauretta, D.S., 2005, Aqueous corrosion of phosphide minerals from
iron meteorites: a highly reactive source of prebiotic phosphorus on the
surface of the early Earth. Astrobiology 5, 515-535.
Funded Grants
NASA Astrobiology: Exobiology and Evolutionary Biology: Reduced Phosphorus Assemblages
as Sources of Reactive P the Origin and Evolution of Early Life. $305,295 for 3 years.
01/01/2008-12/31/2010.
Renewed 09/01/2010 with $255,167 for 3 years.
Selected Abstracts & Poster Presentations
Joseph, M.L., Atlas, Z., Royall, D., and Pasek, M.A. Geochemical Analysis of a Type II
Fulgurite.
Meteoritical Society Meeting 2010.
Pasek, M.A., Collins, G., Carter, E.A., Melosh, H.J., and Atlas, Z., Shocked Quartz in a
Fulgurite.
Meteoritical Society Meeting 2010.
Selected Abstracts & Poster Presentations
Block, K.M., Pasek, M.A., Biogenic element reduction in fulgurites.
Mousis, O., Lunine, J.I., Thomas, C., Pasek, M., Marboeuf, U., Alibert, Y., Ballenengger, V.,
Ellinger, Y., Pauzat, F. and Picaud, S., 2008, A partial sublimation of the planetesimals
that formed Titan. Lunar and Planetary Science Conference XXXIX, Houston TX.
Pasek, M.A., Kee, T.P., and Lunine, J.I., 2007, Oxidative pathways of reduced phosphorus
compounds: a primary source of condensed phosphates on the early Earth. 7th EANA
Workshop on Astrobiology, Turku Finland.
Owens, B.E. and Pasek, M.A. 2005, Kyanite quartzites in the Piedmont province of Virginia:
evidence for protolith production in a high-sulfidation (advanced argillic) hydrothermal
system. Geological Society of America National Meeting, Salt Lake City UT.
Pasek, M.A., and Lauretta, D.S., 2005, Meteorite mass flux and the delivery of prebiotic
material. 68th Meteoritical Society Meeting, Gatlinburg TN.
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Re: The Craters are electric

Unread postby simple simon » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:43 am

Hi
I posted this on another thread, but this seems more relevant. My apologies for double posting, I should look before I leap a little more. but -

I can't explain crater formation, but I do have an observation about craters which contradicts the theory of their formation by impact.

Nearly every crater I've ever seen pictures of in the solar system – whether on our moon, another moon or on another planet – are perfectly circular. Surely this requires that the falling body strike the moon or planet at 90o

Yet a falling body will (I think) always strike the moon or planet at an oblique angle as gravity pulls it in and therefore will always leave an elongated impact crater. Even if only slightly.

Small elongated craters can be seen from photographs of where small meteors have hit the earth close to a handy photographer.

But I have not counted even ONE elongated crater in all the pictures that I have seen of craters on our moon, other moons and other planets.

Doesn't(/can't) this disprove/falsify the theory of crater formation by impact ?
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Re: The Craters are electric

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:25 pm

* I've heard it said that low angle impacts do form round craters, but I don't have a reference offhand.
* The Giordano Bruno crater on the moon appears to have formed in 1178 AD, witnessed by Canterbury monks. There was a very bright flash, followed by a darkening of the limb of the moon for a while, then a return to normal brightness.
* There is said to have been a crater that formed from a witnessed meteorite impact in Siberia in 1947.
* If anyone can find references for any of this, feel free to post. And thanks.
* Large craters on small moons and asteroids seem to be a good case for ED. A number of other features do too.
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Re: The Craters are electric

Unread postby fosborn » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:51 pm

You might consider the The Carancas impact crater. I don't think it was circular.

<<Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIX (2008)
MULTIPLE EXPLOSIONS DURING CRATERING AT CARANCAS METEORITE HIT IN PERU.
Y.Miura, Earth Sci., Graduate School of Sci. & Eng., Yamaguchi University, Yoshida 1677-1, Yamaguchi, 753-
8512, Japan. yasmiura@yamaguchi-u.ac.jp

Introduction:The Carancas meteorite fallen at high
plateau of Cenozoic continental sedimentary rocks on
September 15, 2007 in Peru, South America produce
impact crater of 13.3~13.8m in width with pond of
7.4~7.8m in width>>
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Re: The Craters are electric

Unread postby paulvsheridan » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:55 pm

Let me know what you think on this...

We might request of, say, NASA that they formulate a crater impact computer model, and demand that the model outcome be exactly what we observe on Mars (I want to start with the Warrior Planet).

When they formulate the computer model we should allow them to assume the "answer," which is where they start the exercise so that it comes out exact; that answer is what is already observable at hundreds of Martian crater locations.

Then we ask for the unedited code...the algorithm as well. In other words, to get the computer video game to come out exact, and repeatedly exact, it may necessarily be wraught with exaggerations and incorrect logic, all the way to the point of being outrightly fraudulent. There are so many track-record examples to pick from. 8-)

I propose this partly on the basis of their (Who? Take your pick!) prior track record w.r.t. video games and established subjects, such as (Again, take your pick)... For example, you could pick from climate models at Kyoto? How about the farcical computer simulations they produced to explain the free-fall collapse of WTC-2? WTC-1? (In these two cases NIST and Purdue come to mind). And the utterly farcical computer simulations from NIST relative to the 5pm collapse of WTC-7?!

Right now their answer is 'meteor impact = crater formation,' or something very similar. So, there are two parts to the "answer" from which they start the process: The actual observable craters and meteor impact/collision. I want to see the code and the algorithm that gets them to their preconceived "answer." :P
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Re: The Craters are electric

Unread postby simple simon » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:24 am

Good Luck ;)
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Re: Mars - Craters

Unread postby nick c » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:35 pm

This thread will be a composite of the following threads:

A curious anomaly?

The Craters are electric

Image of recent electric discharge on Mars

Comparison of mars and earth crater chains

NASA Spacecraft Reveal Largest Crater in Solar System

Mars photos with channel between "lakes"
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APOD 8 MAY 2011 Shadow in Endurance Crater

Unread postby BABOafrica » Mon May 09, 2011 7:13 am

NASA's website shows a picture of Endurance Crater and then states: "the floor and walls of the unusual crater..."

Does anyone know why this is being termed an unusual crater?
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Re: APOD 8 MAY 2011 Shadow in Endurance Crater

Unread postby Sparky » Thu May 12, 2011 7:47 pm

I think that many of the things NASA finds are unusual to them because they are attempting to shoehorn new information/data into a falsified theory.

If you had provided a link, or better yet, the image, we could maybe see what has confused NASA so.
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Re: APOD 8 MAY 2011 Shadow in Endurance Crater

Unread postby BABOafrica » Thu May 12, 2011 11:15 pm

You can see a picture if you go to:

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110508.html

However, the image doesn't show much, since the main topic is not the crater itself but the Mars lander in it.

I was just curious about why NASA thought the crater to be unusual. Looks like a crater in the APOD image.

Cheers,
Joe
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Re: APOD 8 MAY 2011 Shadow in Endurance Crater

Unread postby starbiter » Fri May 13, 2011 5:09 am

Crater images below. Always be careful opening unknown images.

http://www.google.com/search?q=enduranc ... 80&bih=685
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
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Re: APOD 8 MAY 2011 Shadow in Endurance Crater

Unread postby StevenJay » Fri May 13, 2011 5:22 am

BABOafrica wrote:I was just curious about why NASA thought the crater to be unusual.

This is one image of it, and this is another. I think it's odd that they really don't look like exactly the same crater.
It's all about perception.
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Re: APOD 8 MAY 2011 Shadow in Endurance Crater

Unread postby Sparky » Fri May 13, 2011 8:50 am

StevenJay wrote:
BABOafrica wrote:I was just curious about why NASA thought the crater to be unusual.

This is one image of it, and this is another. I think it's odd that they really don't look like exactly the same crater.


I don't think they are!..maybe that is what is confusing NASA!

the first thing i noticed about both images was the bright crater edges. these may be underlaying minerals or continued electrical activity.


michael, you keep warning us to be careful, but have not said how to be careful....



can someone please tell me how to mask the url? thanks...
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"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
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Re: APOD 8 MAY 2011 Shadow in Endurance Crater

Unread postby starbiter » Fri May 13, 2011 9:35 am

Sparky wrote:
StevenJay wrote:
BABOafrica wrote:I was just curious about why NASA thought the crater to be unusual.

This is one image of it, and this is another. I think it's odd that they really don't look like exactly the same crater.


I don't think they are!..maybe that is what is confusing NASA!

the first thing i noticed about both images was the bright crater edges. these may be underlaying minerals or continued electrical activity.


michael, you keep warning us to be careful, but have not said how to be careful....



can someone please tell me how to mask the url? thanks...




I look at thumbnails, then go to NASA or other sites. Sometimes i open a link while holding my breath. I'm told that breath holding is very helpful.

The image below has a NASA address, but could still be a problem.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=838

Holding my breath now. This one is probably cool.

Good luck.

michael
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Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
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And makes the seasons clear

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Re: APOD 8 MAY 2011 Shadow in Endurance Crater

Unread postby Goldminer » Fri May 13, 2011 10:14 pm

Sparky wrote: Can someone please tell me how to mask the url? thanks...


I'll try: Click on the "maskurl button. You get this (minus the space b'tween Mask and url:" [mask url=][/mask url]

Now, retreive the url you wish to mask and copy it after the = sign in the first set of brackets. Next; type the word/s you wish to use mask the url between the two bracketed code modules, such as "Here" or "This site."

So your product would look something like this: [mask url=http://www.einsteinwrong.com/main/] see this site[/mask url]

see this site

Aren't these HTML codes fun?

.
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