Mars - Water

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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MattEU
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Re: Mars spiral north pole

Unread post by MattEU » Wed May 26, 2010 12:41 pm

images below from the article, i have turned the 2nd one, the actual radar image around so they are facing the same direction

Image
spiral ice chasms of Mars

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Mars north pole troughs and ice spirals radar image

interesting line of craters at the top and one at the "outflow" at the bottom


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deep spiral chasm on mars north pole

above is a reconstruction of one of the ice spirals on mars north pole, bottom right hand corner are those dunes that we see on mars

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close up of the mars ice spiral chasm and those dunes, with dust covering up the ice?

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MattEU
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what formed mars spiral north pole ice cap?

Unread post by MattEU » Wed May 26, 2010 4:23 pm

obviously this might be all be wrong as i dont know what Wal etc say about the forces at the north pole of mars but i will stick my head above the parapet

Why are the troughs spiral shaped? First, katabatic winds are caused by relatively cold, dense air that rolls down from the poles and out over the ice cap. Second, as they blow down, they are deflected by the Coriolis force, which is caused by the planet's spinning in space.
http://io9.com/5546918/an-ancient-force ... ms-of-mars
Coriolis force - how strong is that on Mars at the north pole and also considering how thin the atmosphere is meant to be? mars is sickly tilted at an angle similar to the earth.
(Coriolis force) On Earth, this is what causes hurricanes to spin opposite directions in opposite hemispheres. This force twists the winds-and the troughs they create-into spiral shapes
http://io9.com/5546918/an-ancient-force ... ms-of-mars
what do hurricanes (formed near the equator supposedly due to hot rising air ) and direction of spin caused by the Coriolis force have to do with the north pole? is this deliberate misinformation to put an image in the mind of the reader? see how this shape resembles a hurricane so the force we say it is must be correct (or some scientist said 40 years ago who we ignored). shame they dont mention that it is a similar shape to galaxies and perhaps a scalable force is responsible for them all


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how does the Coriolis force at mars north pole create such an amazing force that it looks like a real tornado or whirlpool effect? even hurricanes on earth struggle to make a circle or spiral that tight and they are near the equator

what is the smooth material on the left of the above image and why do the troughs not appear to cut into it equally? there even appears to be an upside down L shape in the bottom left hand corner? how did that get created?



Image

how does the Coriolis force push the thin mars wind into a 180 turn so that it starts to go down the picture again and then spins outwards again? should the wind go straight across and not up? considering its a massive trough? or was the force that created this shape or is still forming it coming into the spiral ice cap in this "trough". is the "outflow" actually an inflow and thats why we see a crater at the "end" (or start) of the arm?

Image

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do the line of craters (look like small pock marks) at the top curve round the side of the ice cap?



if mars ice caps and poles are so ancient that they have been moulded by the katabatic winds and mars has such great dust storms then the ice in it should have lots of mars dust?

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The Great Dog
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Re: Mars spiral north pole

Unread post by The Great Dog » Wed May 26, 2010 11:19 pm

The Great Dog recalls some articles written about this:

The Martian Polar Vortices

Martian Thunderbolt Strikes a Positive Note

The Norwegian Fjords
An almost unbelievable piece of evidence remains for our contention that Earth has been visited by catastrophes that reshaped its continents and, perhaps, opened the Atlantic Ocean basin within the memory of human beings on this planet. The Scandinavian Peninsula may be the fossilized vortex of a helical plasma beam that engulfed Siberia, Finland, Norway, Sweden and other locations in a cloud of electric fire powerful enough to change the world.

In a previous Picture of the Day article, polar vortices on Mars were presumed to be the remains of plasma beams that did nearly identical damage to the Red Planet. The northern latitudes were simply wiped away, leaving nothing but a blasted desolation many kilometers below the mean elevation of the planet. A side-by-side comparison of Scandinavia and the North Pole on Mars is revelatory.
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Birkeland
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Re: what formed mars spiral north pole ice cap?

Unread post by Birkeland » Thu May 27, 2010 1:03 am

MattEU wrote:Coriolis force - how strong is that on Mars at the north pole and also considering how thin the atmosphere is meant to be?
Good question, and maybe we need to take into account that this is a continuous process which has been going on for ... some time, maybe billions of years?
"The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see" - Ayn Rand

Lloyd
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Re: Water on Mars?

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:22 pm

* This forum, http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5565, has an interesting image of supposed clouds of water vapor on Mars in the Tharsis "volcanic" region. See caption below image.
Image
Mars: Evidence for Water

Afternoon Clouds

Water is present in the Martian atmosphere in trace amounts. But even this small bit of water vapor is enough to produce clouds, seen here over several of the giant Martian volcanoes in the region called Tharsis. The clouds form when air rises up the slopes of each volcano, causing the gases to cool; the water vapor in the air then forms a cloud of ice crystals. NASA

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nick c
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Re: Mars - Water

Unread post by nick c » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:23 pm

This thread is a composite of the following threads:

Water on Mars?

Ice, water on Mars confirmed

Buried Glaciers on Mars

definitive evidence for ancient lake on Mars

Meteorite Impacts Expose Ice on Mars

Mile-thick glaciers found on Mars-well a 1/2 mile actually !

Mars spiral north pole

Something on Phoenix legs

Perchlorates in Mars Soil. Electrochemical / Electrolytic?

What Will Phoenix Discover About Mars' soil?

Phoenix - a complete failure?

bdw000
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Liquid water on Mars

Unread post by bdw000 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:46 pm

I'm assuming the pros here are already all over this, but the usual suspects are now claiming liquid water on Mars. The abstract (http://www.sciencemag.org/content/333/6043/740.abstract) doesn't seem to mention any sort of verification that this is indeed water, but perhaps that is in the article. Have to pay to read whole article.
Water probably flowed across ancient Mars, but whether it ever exists as a liquid on the surface today remains debatable. Recurring slope lineae (RSL) are narrow (0.5 to 5 meters), relatively dark markings on steep (25° to 40°) slopes; repeat images from the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment show them to appear and incrementally grow during warm seasons and fade in cold seasons. They extend downslope from bedrock outcrops, often associated with small channels, and hundreds of them form in some rare locations. RSL appear and lengthen in the late southern spring and summer from 48°S to 32°S latitudes favoring equator-facing slopes, which are times and places with peak surface temperatures from ~250 to 300 kelvin. Liquid brines near the surface might explain this activity, but the exact mechanism and source of water are not understood.
A non-journal (for non-scientific audience) article is here:

http://io9.com/5827462/scientists-confi ... ce-of-mars

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Ben D
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Re: Mars - Water

Unread post by Ben D » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:24 pm

Hmmm...

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Tracin ... s_999.html
Tracing the Canals of Mars

by Richard Milner for Astrobiology Magazine

Moffett Field CA (SPX) Oct 07, 2011

In a remarkable discovery, images taken over the past five years by the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) camera aboard NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, which circles Mars to photograph the planet, seem to indicate the presence of water there.

For decades, space scientists searched the red planet without detecting the life-sustaining liquid, and concluded that it was bone-dry.

Last August, however, scientists found dozens of slopes across the southern hemisphere of Mars where previously undetected dark streaks come and go with the seasons.

When the planet heats up, the streaks appear and expand downhill, and disappear when it gets cold. Scientists think it may be evidence of melted, salty water running down slopes during the Martian summer.

Five image sequences from the Newton crater and one from the Horowitz crater show the black lines appearing near the tops of slopes and then growing into scores of "streaks" that remain for months until the cold weather returns and they disappear. At Newton Crater, photos indicate as many as 1,000 of these possible streams flowing down the slopes and into a basin.

If confirmed, the discovery would fundamentally change our understanding of Mars, lending support to the theory that the planet was once far more wet and warm, and would renew hope that it may be able to support life.

....

Xuxalina Rihhia
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Re: Mars - Water

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:10 am

This is an official NASA image of the south polar region of Mars during the Martian summer. It looks EXACTLY like melting ice and pools of water. If this were taken on Earth, nobody would think otherwise. If it looks like a lake and behaves like a lake it's a lake. Also Mars' albedo is less than half of earth's, the year is almost twice as long and there is enough heat from the sun for water to turn from ice to liquid. Even during a solar eclipse when the sun is more than half-covered, I can still feel the sun's heat and quite well. The density of Mars' air has to be higher than 6 millibars and this picture is proof. Mars may have lost most of its water, but it still has a lot and some liquid water as well.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7818 ... ropoff.jpg

Xuxalina Rihhia
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Re: Mars - Water

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:21 am

Here is the picture in full resolution:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7818 ... ropoff.jpg

Also, while I personally think that much of Mars' water (and life) was removed electrically from planetary interactions, there was still a lot of water left (and some now recovering life) that water can still exist. Mars much have been a much more fertile world while orbiting the Proto-Saturn and might have been just as warm as Earth--or close to Earth's temperatures back then.

Also I believe this larger photo will hold up to the scrutiny as well. Mars was shattered, broken but is not dead, waterless or airless.

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StevenJay
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Re: Mars - Water

Unread post by StevenJay » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:43 am

Xuxalina Rihhia wrote:This is an official NASA image of the south polar region of Mars during the Martian summer. It looks EXACTLY like melting ice and pools of water.
It also looks like it could be glassification. ;)
It's all about perception.

Xuxalina Rihhia
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Re: Mars - Water

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:01 am

StevenJay wrote:
Xuxalina Rihhia wrote:This is an official NASA image of the south polar region of Mars during the Martian summer. It looks EXACTLY like melting ice and pools of water.
It also looks like it could be glassification. ;)
Most likely the place was glassified during great cosmic upheavals. Later, the surviving water pooled and froze there, to thaw out during the summer months and create lakes of water. Mars' atmosphere would allow for it, since a blue sky that is so like Earth's can't exist with only a few millibars of air. Mars appears to have lost much of its water due to cosmic electric bolts scarring the entire globe; however, some water, even in liquid form survives. Mars WAS a moon of Saturn's like Earth was when it was a brown dwarf and was inside the glowing plasmasphere.

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Re: Mars - Water

Unread post by Julian Braggins » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:41 am

XR, your mention of blue sky brought together a train of thought prompted by reading the 'questioning the ice ages' and 'Antarctica, once a tropical paradise' threads. Homer in his writings of ancient Greece calls the sky 'bronze' and the sea and sheep 'wine coloured', this link, http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/61 questions their ability, ( not only Homer said this) to see colour as we do. It would be more likely I feel that the colours of the atmosphere were totally different to today's , if for instance the Earth was then a satellite of Saturn.

vardamango
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Curiosity Finds Old Streambed on Mars

Unread post by vardamango » Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:15 pm

Would anyone like to chime in on the latest NASA pronouncement?


http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... streambed/
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GaryN
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Re: Curiosity Finds Old Streambed on Mars

Unread post by GaryN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:07 am

The rounded shape of some stones in the conglomerate indicates long-distance transport from above the rim,
Image
Thet have found pebbles, and presume they were rounded by erosion in stream flows, but that is based on how they think pebbles are formed on Earth. If the Martian 'river bed' is rather an electrically excavated feature, and the pebbles are formed by way of electrical forces, then it is time to review the method of the formation of the pebbles in Earthly river beds. And I am confident I have the evidence to show such a process. The rounding by erosion model is in serious error, as is most of accepted Earth geology, and now they are going to try and apply a flawed model to Mars' geology.
http://phys.org/news/2012-09-curiosity- ... e.html#jCp
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller

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