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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:04 pm

Earth History
Saturn System Formation - ?
Age of Darkness
Saturn Flare - 10,000 BP
Golden Age
Saturn System Breakup - 5,000 BP
Ancient Civilization
Modern Era
* As explained in the Cardona Interview thread at Earth was initially part of the Saturn System in the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy (SDG), which is wrapped around the Milky Way and the two galaxies intersect near our present location. Star and planet formation are electrical plasma events, according to EU findings. I think Cardona said the makeup of stars in the SDG is a bit different from most stars in the local Milky Way.
* The Age of Darkness began probably shortly after the Saturn System formed. Saturn may have been a lone dwarf star, or it may have been part of another system and it may have had one or more satellite planets from the outset. That's not yet known.
* Saturn was knocked out of the SDG at some point and it moved from its former location toward the Sun in a manner like a comet. It flared occasionally when its electrical environment changed much and it sometimes ejected satellites, possibly including Earth, Mars, Venus etc. Its larger satellites followed behind it in a line, like the SL9 comet pieces did before they struck Jupiter in 1994.
* Saturn Flare - The Age of Darkness lasted until Saturn arrived at the Sun's heliopause and flared for the last time, 10,000 years ago. It possibly bounced off the heliopause several times before penetrating it. After the flare subsided Venus appeared in front of Saturn from Earth's perspective and the Sun was seen for the first time. Mars was seen not long afterward and so too was the electrical plasma column between Saturn's south pole, Venus, Mars [?] and Earth's north pole.
* The Golden Age lasted until the Saturn System broke up, when Saturn reached the asteroid belt during Saturn's slow inward spiral toward the Sun. Electrical forces caused the breakup and I think formation of some or all of the asteroid belt from Saturn's celestial disk from its last flare. The breakup occurred 5,000 years ago. Severing of the plasma column produced the Great Flood and the Ice Age, although floods and ice ages also occurred after former flare events as well.
* Red Sun - Debris remained in orbit for a few thousand years after the breakup, which made the Sun and planets look red. And many meteors struck the Earth's atmosphere and produced megalightning impacts on Earth. Ancient civilizations began mostly after the breakup and lasted about 3,000 years at most. The Modern Era began about 2,000 years ago, when the debris in orbit had greatly diminished and the Sun became bright like it is now.
* This thread is for discussing what happened about the time of the Saturn System breakup.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:12 pm

* The Saturn System broke up somewhere near Jupiter and the asteroid belts. When Earth left the warmth of Saturn's tail and the polar column, I suppose it took a few decades to reach its present orbit. The move from near Jupiter or Mars to the present orbit would have been very cold, producing an ice age. I suppose the lower latitudes would have been the only places warm enough for most people and animals during that time.
* The plasma column held a lot of ocean water from Earth, so, when it was severed, a Great Flood occurred when the column let go of some of the water.
* The column also had very strong tornadoes during the Golden Age which chewed up the ground in the Arctic. The Arctic was warm during the Golden Age and there was abundant plant and animal life. But the tornadoes were a bit erratic and gobbled up plants and animals as well as dirt near the pole. Electrical forces pulverized the matter into organic powder. When the column was severed, after the flood waters were let go, tornadoes mixed the powder with broken plants and animals and ice pellets to make frozen muck, covering much of the Arctic circle. Loess is pulverized rock, which also covers much of the area.
* The area around the Arctic Ocean must have been hit by a blast of very cold air from the upper atmosphere, when plasma column severed, because large animals and even bodies of water froze almost instantly. In order for mammoths to freeze solid without their cells bursting, they had to be flash frozen, which would have required temperatures below -175F. I'll try to post some relevant data soon.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby moses » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:50 pm

The Saturn System broke up somewhere near Jupiter and the asteroid belts. When Earth left the warmth of Saturn's tail and the polar column, I suppose it took a few decades to reach its present orbit. The move from near Jupiter or Mars to the present orbit would have been very cold, producing an ice age. I suppose the lower latitudes would have been the only places warm enough for most people and animals during that time.
Lloyd


If Earth headed off in about the same direction as Saturn, then it would take some decades just to do one lap around the Sun. And so we quickly have the Earth spending too much time in extremely cold conditions. However if the Earth headed off more towards the Sun then that would mean that the Earth would follow an elliptical orbit.

To me this is a no-brainer. The Earth would not orbit closer to the Sun every orbit, that it not how it works. And the elliptical orbit explains the oscillating ice ages and the high likelihood of interactions with other planets, as I have written about before.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:29 pm

Cause of Ice Ages
* Mo, according to Cardona's findings, the last ice age is the only one that was likely due to the Earth being too far from the Sun. Before that it was always within the realm of Saturn and it only experienced ice ages after Saturn flares, when the aurora filled with dust and blocked light from Saturn in the north temperate zones. So much ocean water got tied up with the ice sheets during the Age of Darkness that the ocean levels dropped over a mile, so that much of the now submerged land was available for habitation. I believe it's entirely possible for objects to spiral in toward the Sun as Saturn apparently did for 5,000 years and as comets may do. Spacecraft are guided in a spiral fashion to get from one orbit to another, as from Earth to Mars or the reverse. So Earth could have moved from the orbit of Jupiter to its present orbit within a decade or so. It may be that Earth's encounter with the Moon is what helped stop its inward spiral.
Hydroplate Theory & Saturn Theory
* I've been reading about the hydroplate theory and I want to post a bunch of the evidence from that which supports Cardona's theory. The hydroplate theory supposes that there were underground water-filled caverns under the continents, which heated up and exploded along a seam which became the mid-Atlantic ridge, causing the continents to split apart in seafloor spreading, and where the water and rock particles etc sprayed way up into the upper atmosphere and came back down, entombing the mammoths etc in ice and muck etc. I think Brown's main inspiration for that idea was the Biblical mention of the "fountains of the great deep" as a source of the waters of the Great Flood. As I've pointed out before, the "Great Deep" was actually in the sky. Cardona says the celestial disk around Saturn looked from Earth like an ocean, so that's what it referred to. Comparative mythology shows that the ancients meant the sky when they said the Great Deep or the Ocean. Cardona also said the plasma column was the source of the waters of the Great Flood.
* There are obvious similarities between Cardona's findings and the hydroplate theory. The water and debris that froze and entombed the mammoths and other animals in both cases came from the Earth initially, then went into the sky, then came back down to Earth. I think Cardona's theory makes a much better fit with the evidence. I don't think hydroplate theory can explain how the frozen spray and muck ended up around the Arctic circle, instead of around the Atlantic Ocean. But there seems to be a lot of good evidence in the hydroplate theory, which seems to be usable for the Saturn Theory. So I want to post a bunch of it and see how well it works out.
* His online book is at and the chapters that seem most useful are:
Liquefaction: The Origin of Strata and Layered Fossils
The Origin of the Grand Canyon
The Origin of Limestone
Frozen Mammoths

* I'd like to see if any of Cardona's books have more info on these subjects that Brown didn't cover. But I don't expect to see any more of his at least for a spell. I only have his first book so far.
* I think I'll try to discuss the following geological aspects of the Saturn System breakup:
- The Plasma Column
- The Last Ice Age
- The Great Flood
- The Grand Canyon
- Rock Strata Formation
- Continental Drift

* There's always room for the astronomical aspects too eventually.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby moses » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:36 am

I believe it's entirely possible for objects to spiral in toward the Sun as Saturn apparently did for 5,000 years and as comets may do. Spacecraft are guided in a spiral fashion to get from one orbit to another, as from Earth to Mars or the reverse. So Earth could have moved from the orbit of Jupiter to its present orbit within a decade or so. It may be that Earth's encounter with the Moon is what helped stop its inward spiral.
Lloyd


In the disordered condition of the Solar System planets would have spiraled closer or further away from the Sun due to interactions with other planets. The likely way a moon of Saturn (Earth) could have broken free is for another sizeable planet to fly past and attract Earth either electrically or gravitationally and slingshot the Earth towards the Sun, but it would still be likely to retain much of it's initial momentum which was directed perpendicular to the Sun. Once free of the gravitational influence of the other planets, the Earth would move in an elliptical orbit.

Now it would be possible for the Earth to immediately interact with a planet that was in an orbit near where Venus or Earth is now. And that would change the Earth's orbit to something near where it is now, however I think that the evidence is clear that the Earth did many elliptical laps around the sun producing the ice ages, with apologies to Dwardu and all the rest of the crew.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:06 pm

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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby moses » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:12 am

Peratt found that the plasma column was seen by the ancients near the south pole. I believe Cardona and Talbott agree that it was last seen there as the Earth was moving away from Saturn during the breakup. So, shortly after the petroglyphs of the plasma column were made the Great Flood must have occurred.
Lloyd

Nearly all the petroglyphs are in the mountains, so one can only conclude that the tsunamis wiped out the low lying areas and the survivors painted and etched what they saw after that in those mountains. In which case it is peculiar that a particular direction is indicated that is not exactly at the south pole. For if the Earth was rotating then one would expect a circle of directions, at least, for surely the Earth was tumbling somewhat also.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:47 am

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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby moses » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:15 am

So the mesosphere is very possibly where the frigid dirty air mass came from that froze the mammoths and other animals and plants in the Arctic.
Lloyd

Except that there is not much air in the mesosphere.

So, muck contains a lot of organic, carbon-rich matter from plants and animals, which were apparently pulverized in huge tornadoes in the polar plasma column from 10,000 to 5,000 years ago.
Lloyd

Which suggests that you don't think that the muck got there in one event.

I think the Great Flood may have eroded away much of this muck layer. The muck was obviously deposited shortly before the flood, since the frozen animals would not have been standing or sitting upright, if they had died in the flood first. And they died by suffocation from the loess dust in the air, not from drowning. The muck was frozen and may have been as hard as concrete, especially if there was enough moisture in the air to cement the muck together as it fell. So the flood waters could have washed right over much of the muck layer, but eroded a lot of it away eventually, leaving just the hills, or yedomas.
Lloyd

I think that maybe the muck was created in the one event which wiped out the mammoths and a lot of other creatures around the world. As the Earth moved away from Saturn extremely cold conditions rapidly froze the material that had been swept up in the event that caused the Earth to break free of Saturn.

Then as the Earth neared the Sun, relatively speaking, some of the muck melted and sections got swept away, and possibly the muck was deposited in laminations so that some sections had a lot less soil than other sections.

Let's not believe what we write.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:51 am

Muck, Loess & Rock Ice in the Plasma Column
- From what I've read, there is no layering in the muck and loess.
- Cardona theorized that there were tornadoes or something like that in the plasma column, which tore up the ground and living things in the Arctic and pulverized it. I don't know if he thinks the water and muck were all held in suspension until the breakup, or if they were sometimes dumped in piles. But the main dumping seems to have been at the time of the breakup. The plasma column lasted for several thousand years, so it may have had tornado action from the beginning, in which case the frozen, pulverized muck, loess and rock ice may have been held in suspension in the column for a long time. If I find out what his latest info is on that, I'll try to post it.
Source of Freezing
- The mesosphere is cold enough now to freeze muck and rock ice to the required amount, -175 degrees F. Before the breakup Earth may have had more atmosphere than now, so the mesosphere may have been higher then or denser. But, at any rate, the part of the mesosphere over the north pole would have contained a lot of the muck, loess and rock ice, either within or adjacent to the plasma column. Those pulverized solids are more likely what froze the mammoths and other animals, rather than air, because solids are more massive and can absorb heat much faster than air. The best evidence seems to be that the animals' lungs were full of loess dust.
- I don't know if a vacuum can absorb heat, but I don't see how it could. If it can, then a vacuum bubble from space could have frozen the animals, but for now, I think frozen muck, loess and rock ice is what froze them.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby moses » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:56 pm

Large animals disappeared around the world, so we are looking at a very major event worldwide. And so this event could easily account for all the muck. However, very electrical conditions in the north in those days seems certain. And water, being polarised, could be levitated and stored in a region above Earth, for example the ion belts. So the issue is whether there was EDM in those days.

Now I am not against there being a plasma column in those days, but I don't think that it is absolutely necessary so as to explain the geological evidence. I surely feel that there was such a column long before those break-up times, which explains how the geological column came about. I just think that nobody has really nailed it yet. Dwardu has some good ideas but surely there are errors in his work.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:37 pm

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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby moses » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:29 pm

Perhaps the planet, that came close to the Earth and pulled it out of the previous configuration, had a moon. Of course it could have been a Birkeland Current thunderbolt between Earth and this approaching planet that dragged a lot of material with it. This has always been an issue - whether the fragments found around a crater were there due to a meteorite hitting the crater or else the fragments came with a interplanetary thunderbolt.

So there was a few weeks after this first interaction and a more serious event which wiped out the big creatures. This seems to suggest that it was not just a simple fly-by of a big planet, but rather a more complicated interaction.

One of the issues revolves aroung whether the bison did actually live in the arctic and thus the temperatures were much warmer there then than now, and so there would have been little ice. Then the arctic would have been warmed electrically. Or else the bison were swept to the arctic from further south in a giant tsunami.
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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby slug » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:40 am

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Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:02 am

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