Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: bboyer, MGmirkin

Locked
Sparky
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Sparky » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:29 am

Image

How it may have been? :? ;)



:D
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

perpetual motion
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:04 pm

what are the odds

Unread post by perpetual motion » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:50 pm

I will try posting this in this category.Like I mentioned in my headline,
what are the odds of a bunch of rocks, planet size to this solar system,
wondering through a galaxy, meeting up with a star like the one we
see and become its satellites.And besides that where in the heck did
"they" originate from.
The odds of this happening must be beyond comprehension.

tholden
Posts: 934
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: what are the odds

Unread post by tholden » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:25 pm

Basically impossible. In real life, solar systems form up as Herbig/Haro object strings due to the activity of cosmic Birkeland currents, although there is a further possibility that some of the bodies you would find in such a string may have been ejected from other bodies in the same string.

http://www.cosmosincollision.com

Troy McLachlan and I come to the conclusion that our own system must have formed up originally as such a string; that the string subsequently broke into Southern and Northern parts, and the two parts eventually rejoined.

moses
Posts: 1111
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Adelaide
Contact:

Re: what are the odds

Unread post by moses » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:18 am

Well, if there are alot of planetary sized rocks wandering around out there then there might be many ways this could happen. Then do these planets attract electric currents, ie are there broad electric currents moving through the area and such planets act as cathodes or anodes and z-pinches.

If so one needs to consider what might happen if two such planet-rocks move some AU from each other. I think it likely that the two currents going through the two planets will join up into one current with both planets caught in this current. Now the two planets might move towards each other in this current and produce the smaller one orbitting the larger planet, such that this is how planets get moons.

Also if another planet comes along there may be a line of three planets formed all trapped in the one Birkeland Current. Thus we do not need gravity or electrical attraction to form collections of such bodies, but rather the tendency of two electrical currents to come together and form one current. This would greatly increase the odds of solar system formation.
Cheers,
Mo

pavlink
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:14 am

Re: what are the odds

Unread post by pavlink » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:41 am

perpetual motion wrote:I will try posting this in this category.Like I mentioned in my headline,
what are the odds of a bunch of rocks, planet size to this solar system,
wondering through a galaxy, meeting up with a star like the one we
see and become its satellites.And besides that where in the heck did
"they" originate from.
The odds of this happening must be beyond comprehension.
Everything that happens is natural.
Planets are stage of the stellar evolution.
The destiny of the planets is to become stars.
( Check the latest growing Earth evidence http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 020#p91500)

Going from rocky worlds, through gas stage to gas giants and then leaving home star system finding a partner and forming new ( double ) star system.

The new double star system creates its own planetary nursery ( Oort cloud ) around one of the stars.
From there planetesimals are coming into inner orbit to form moons and planets, therefore completing the creation cycle.

A new day is coming here on Earth.
The passage has started.
Earth is changing its orbit and the planet is changing accordingly.
Bump on the road is coming shortly.
We live in a double star system.
We need to study double star systems.

Solar System as 4D energy vortex
http://files.kostovi.com/8835e.pdf

Xuxalina Rihhia
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:53 pm

Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:28 pm

Something like this with Neptune and then Uranus above Saturn in a Herbig-Haro configuration with them both also in glow mode. Neptune and Uranus would be off view in this instance.
Attachments
Electrical-Saturn-System1c.jpg

Sparky
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Sparky » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:51 am

Xuxalina Rihhia wrote:Something like this with Neptune and then Uranus above Saturn in a Herbig-Haro configuration with them both also in glow mode. Neptune and Uranus would be off view in this instance.
Anyone ------ is there an overview, without the names or locations of Herbig/Haros?
A history of observations, condensed into a Reader's Digest type of format.

I don't want to become an "expert", just get some general info. The papers online go into too much detail about location, names, etc....I just need an overview.

What evidence is there that Herbig/Haros remain in that configuration away from the location it formed? :?

thanks.... ;)
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

Spektralscavenger
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:40 pm

Re: what are the odds

Unread post by Spektralscavenger » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:50 pm

The Saturn theory does not logically depend on Saturn being away and captured by the Sun, the essential is Saturn "creating" and harboring some planets Earth among them. The odds of capture are real tiny in a universe of isolated stars going at random, not so in an "everything´s interconnected" universe. Maybe planetary capture is as "natural" as electrons exchange between atoms.

Jupiter did not have to be close to the Sun nor met Saturn at the asteroids belt because many exo-giants same. Those are young systems, Sun-Jupiter was a mature binary system. It´s worth notice that many exo-giants are 10 AU s or more from its star as well, therefore, Jupiter could have been as far_ probably not even all the other planets together could have disturbed significantly Jupiter´s orbit anyway. After the Sun and Jupiter lost "strength" due to the Saturn affairs Jupiter could come some AU s closer (possibly shattering the planets between the Sun and Jupiter, if there were any). I was inspired by the Dark Star and Nibiru "mythology". We haven´t found neither so maybe, maybe, don´t exist. If the "wayward Dark Star" is today s Sun and "wayward Nibiru" Jupiter no need to complicate the picture. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.

Are the trans-neptunians ex-moons "left behind" by the Saturnian system? At any rate I bet the Kuiper belt can´t be older than 15,000 years and the asteroids belt even younger.

The destiny of the planets is to become stars
If they live long enough...

Spektralscavenger
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:40 pm

Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread post by Spektralscavenger » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:44 pm

Tides are electromagnetic thus so is tidal heating.


The first time I knew of the Saturn theory was over a year ago with this paper:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienc ... aurs01.htm
Then I considered it utterly unnecessary because I thought (and still think) dinosaurs were hyperefficient organisms, any reduced gravity is superfluous. Months later I am convinced that the generic Saturn theory is not only 100% plausible even in the mean time frame but more probable than anything else. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". But, what is extraordinary? Isn´t the never-changing Solar System really extraordinary? Haven´t "uniformitarians" learned that linear extrapolations only work within limited time horizons?


http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2012/09 ... f-truth-2/
I put a great deal of money on Fomalhaut b is a captured planet. I wonder what a Solar System electric ring would look like in the sky. I guess it´d depend on whether Earth was(?) outside or embedded in the dust ring.


http://nexusilluminati.blogspot.com.es/ ... ollow.html
I see why Cardona places the moon right in the Saturn break up. How does that fit with the 12,000 years ago Tihuanaco date? Was the Moon "there" but not in orbit? Was the Moon in line below the Earth south pole? Confusing modern Moon for some ancient moon-like body?

tholden
Posts: 934
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm

Re: Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Unread post by tholden » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:11 pm

Lloyd wrote:Earth History
Saturn System Formation - ?
Age of Darkness
Saturn Flare - 10,000 BP
Golden Age
Saturn System Breakup - 5,000 BP
Ancient Civilization
Modern Era
* As explained in the Cardona Interview thread at http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... =10&t=3824 Earth was initially part of the Saturn System in the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy (SDG), which is wrapped around the Milky Way and the two galaxies intersect near our present location. Star and planet formation are electrical plasma events, according to EU findings. I think Cardona said the makeup of stars in the SDG is a bit different from most stars in the local Milky Way.
* The Age of Darkness began probably shortly after the Saturn System formed. Saturn may have been a lone dwarf star, or it may have been part of another system and it may have had one or more satellite planets from the outset. That's not yet known.
* Saturn was knocked out of the SDG at some point and it moved from its former location toward the Sun in a manner like a comet.......
The reasons for rejecting the Saturn-from-SDG idea are as follows: The fact of the roughly 26-degree axis tilts of Neptune, Saturn, Mars, and Earth indicate, as Troy and I have noted, that those bodies flew into the plane of the sun/Jupiter/Mercury system at a ~26 degree angle from the South in the form of an axially aligned, Herbig/Haro object string; as the individual bodies broke loose and began to orbit the sun as they do now, they simply kept the ~26 degree tilt.

Pretty much everything you read about Herbig/Haro objects indicates that they are short lived, e.g.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbig–Haro_object
HH objects are transient phenomena, lasting not more than a few thousand years. They can evolve visibly over quite short astronomical timescales as they move rapidly away from their parent star into the gas clouds of interstellar space (the interstellar medium or ISM). Hubble Space Telescope observations have revealed the complex evolution of HH objects over the period of a few years, as parts of the nebula fade while others brighten as they collide with clumpy material of the interstellar medium.
Again Wikipedia is a valuable resource for topics not involving any sort of controversy, and there is none within this context.

You then have to ask yourself, how long would it take for a HH object including Saturn to fly into the neighborhood of our present sun, from another galaxy. Again from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittari ... dal_Galaxy
The Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy (Sgr dE or Sag DEG) is an elliptical loop-shaped satellite galaxy of the Milky Way Galaxy. It consists of four globular clusters, the main cluster having been discovered in 1994. Sag DEG is roughly 10,000 light-years in diameter, and is currently about 70,000 light-years from Earth,
You have to ask yourself what the chances are, of a HH object surviving the 65,000 light year trip from SDEG to here, reasonably intact......

For the real version of where Saturn came from:

http://www.cosmosincollision.com

The short answer is that it didn't come from 65,000 light years away.

Xuxalina Rihhia
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:53 pm

Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:08 pm

This is Herbig-Haro 24 taken by the Hubble Space Telescope using NICMOS. This is probably a good example of how our quintuple star system was before the breakup and the depowering of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune into Jovian 'planets.'
Attachments
hh24_schmidt_1505 HST II-IR-bw.jpg

dougettinger
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:25 pm

Current status of The Saturn Myth

Unread post by dougettinger » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:31 am

Hello to the Forum,

I have just joined Thunderbolts and ask for some updating. I am very impressed with Talbott's "Symbols of an Alien Sky" including its Episodes and his joint venture with Thornhill in the writing of The Electric Universe . The book The Saturn Myth written in 1980 is perhaps outdated and current thinking has evolved within parts or all of the Thunderbolt group to refute many of its principles. Is this the case? The Saturn Myth certainly is given some excellent and intriguing support from Talbott's interpretation of myths but fails to be supported by any adequate celestial mechanics including the combining of gravitational and electromagnetic phenomena.

If you answer that the tenants of The Saturn Myth are still completely accepted, I will not be totally alienated. Criticizing someone's own book can be very personal. I truly love the ideas created by Talbot and Thornhill since 2005. I enthusiastically support all these newer ideas.

Doug Ettinger, Pittsburgh, PA

Sparky
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Current status of The Saturn Myth

Unread post by Sparky » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:36 am

A question about the night sky: Astrology is very old. How would the night sky change if Earth was positioned in another orbit?\ :?

Is there evidence that Astrology adapted to any changes? :?

thank you
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

dougettinger
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:25 pm

The Explosion of Saturn to Create other Planets

Unread post by dougettinger » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:46 am

I have previously asked whether The Saturn Myth is still completely accepted and am awaiting an answer.

Assuming that certain or all parties in the Thunderbolt group accept the ideas of this 1980 book, I ask the following question.
What proof(s) by either calculations and/or laboratory experiments (using electromagnetic phenomena) show the possibility of a gaseous planet like Saturn exploding to form planets that eventually orbit around it? Considerations are 1) why Saturn would vomit its dense core without completely destroying itself, and 2) how its expelled core breaks up into discreet parts or Saturn's exploded core accrets over time to form several orbiting terrestrial-type planets.

NASA is very frank and honest about having numerous issues with their currently accepted or most popular hypothesis for the formation of the mysterious Earth-Moon system. Hence, the organization still lists three other hypotheses that are still under consideration. Perhaps the Thunderbolts Project might suggest in similar fashion other possible versions for the transformation of the Saturn-planetary model into the given solar system of today. Or, maybe another planetary model that addresses your well developed hypotheses since 2005 can be developed.

The Thunderbolts Project certainly prides itself on establishing its hypotheses since 2005 on laboratory experiments; this is one chief reason why I am impressed with the project's pursuits. I wish to understand more about the congruency of your overall project. Thank you.

Doug Ettinger, Pittsburgh, PA

dougettinger
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:25 pm

Re: Current status of The Saturn Myth

Unread post by dougettinger » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:03 am

Thank you for your reply. I am actually looking for a simple "yes" or "no" reply.

I am not sure how you make a correlation between astrology and orbital changes of the planets. I have written a paper about the possibility of Earth changing its orbit. The difficulties for just changing the orbital radius around the Sun for Earth are immense. An attendant change in orbital period and velocity were also necessary. I used calculations and classical physics. The predictions of astrology were not used. But, I did use the aid of a myth interpretation.

Best regards,
Doug Ettinger, Pittsburgh, PA

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests