Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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moses
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by moses » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:47 pm

I have previously explained that Mars has strong evidence that it rotated from a different North Pole position. The etching on Mars is near circular but the centre of this circle is 35 degrees, or so, from the present pole.

The likely explanation for the tilt is that Mars strongly interacted with the Earth which changed the tilts of these planets, and produced similar tilts after the interaction.
Cheers,
Mo

Xuxalina Rihhia
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:38 pm

I posted this in another thread, but I think this image will clarify things a bit. Hope this helps.
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electricuniverseX-Saturn color2.jpg

tholden
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by tholden » Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:12 am

moses wrote:I have previously explained that Mars has strong evidence that it rotated from a different North Pole position. The etching on Mars is near circular but the centre of this circle is 35 degrees, or so, from the present pole.

The likely explanation for the tilt is that Mars strongly interacted with the Earth which changed the tilts of these planets, and produced similar tilts after the interaction.
Cheers,
Mo
The surface of Mars apparently has shifted wrt the pole. Nonetheless I still like the Herbig/Haro explanation for the four main planets all having that same ~26-degree axis tilt. That appears to answer the mail and I don't see anything else that does.

The question is, does Thunderbolts have any sort of an official position on this and, if so, are they still claiming that Saturn somehow arrived in the vicinity of our present sun from deep space, or have they adopted the HH version?

moses
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by moses » Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:14 pm

Ted, if you agree that the surface of Mars has shifted wrt the pole then you are suggesting that the pole has not moved in wrt the direction it points in, for a long time. So this means that the surface of Mars has slid around to it's present position without changing the direction the pole points to.

This compares with the ancient pole position being in the centre of the Martian etching, pointing in an unknown direction, and then Mars leaving it's old position and sometime interacting with, presumably, Earth and the friction of electrical interaction bringing both bodies to about the same rate of rotation and with their axis in the same direction. This is without any slipping of the Martian surface.

I know which scenario I choose.
Cheers,
Mo

tholden
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by tholden » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:53 pm

moses wrote:Ted, if you agree that the surface of Mars has shifted wrt the pole then you are suggesting that the pole has not moved in wrt the direction it points in, for a long time. So this means that the surface of Mars has slid around to it's present position without changing the direction the pole points to.

This compares with the ancient pole position being in the centre of the Martian etching, pointing in an unknown direction, and then Mars leaving it's old position and sometime interacting with, presumably, Earth and the friction of electrical interaction bringing both bodies to about the same rate of rotation and with their axis in the same direction. This is without any slipping of the Martian surface.

I know which scenario I choose.
Cheers,
Mo
You either believe in the laws of probability or you don't. I do. Having four of the main planets sitting there with that same ~26 degree axis tilt demands some sort of an explanation.

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dahlenaz
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by dahlenaz » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:41 am

Ted,,
The chapter in your book which describes the HH scenario is very thorough
and convincing. I can imagine more easily the scenario, where as the wandering
scenario is not believable,,,, unless i were to apply gradualism and that is not
a realistic perspective..

I am really surprised that no answer to your question has come from that
direction.
Don't let that stop you from going forward.. Focus on this strong argument
and keep on talking about it, some day someone will see an object in
transition and the puzzle will be completed.. d...z

...

tholden
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by tholden » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:30 pm

dahlenaz wrote:Ted,,
The chapter in your book which describes the HH scenario is very thorough
and convincing. I can imagine more easily the scenario, where as the wandering
scenario is not believable,,,, unless i were to apply gradualism and that is not
a realistic perspective..
...
Thanks! The book relies heavily upon logic and the logic of the HH origin of the Saturn/Neptune/Mars/Earth group is compelling. Of course, once you realize that our system was originally in two parts and that the one part would have been very bright and the other very dark, and then you look at the huge eyes of dinosaurs and hominids and the relatively tiny eyes of humans, then the rest of it follows.

Xuxalina Rihhia
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:00 pm

The Saturn system would have been dark, compared to the Sun system, but it would have been bright enough for both photosynthesis and for people to see--even with our small eyes. It would be like a bright twilight, but brighter since our eyes don't register blue and red light very well. And T-type brown dwarves are magenta in color since their visible peaks are in the blue and red ends of the specturm--precisely the kind of light that our plants need for photosynthesis. And there would be plenty of NIR to help stimulate flower blooming as well.

In fact, green plants would be the type of plants growing on a planet with a brown dwarf primary due to their spectral response and the spectrum of the brown dwarfs meshing better than the suns spectrum and the spectral response of our plants.

A sol type world would most likely have purple plants because such plants would absorb the very light frequencies that most chlorophylls "spit out"--that is yellow and green light.

Spektralscavenger
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Spektralscavenger » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:35 pm

Is it possible that Uranus and Neptune were once a single bigger gaseous planet which splitted in two under great stress? Maybe that´s the "cosmic egg" breaking in two of mythology. Regarding axis tilts, usually the halves of a fissioning body spin CW-CCW one another.

tholden
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by tholden » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:10 am

Spektralscavenger wrote:Is it possible that Uranus and Neptune were once a single bigger gaseous planet which splitted in two under great stress? Maybe that´s the "cosmic egg" breaking in two of mythology. Regarding axis tilts, usually the halves of a fissioning body spin CW-CCW one another.
Far as I know, the only planet in our system which spins backwards is Venus. Bob Bass noted that could not plausibly be primordial and had to have arisen via entanglement with some other body in the system, and that the curious phase-lock between Venus and Earth indicated that the other body was Earth. I.E. if Velikovsky didn't exist, we'd have to invent him.

tholden
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by tholden » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:13 am

Spektralscavenger wrote:Is it possible that Uranus and Neptune were once a single bigger gaseous planet which splitted in two under great stress? Maybe that´s the "cosmic egg" breaking in two of mythology. Regarding axis tilts, usually the halves of a fissioning body spin CW-CCW one another.
Troy and I see it as likely that Uranus acquired its odd tilt by being the lead body in the HH string which entered the present solar plane at the ~26-degree angle from the south. I.e. that Uranus served as the "battering ram"...

Sparky
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Sparky » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:41 am

Tilt! My Charge Field, Please..!
Here we have yet another example of extreme negligence by the mainstream. This problem, like a thousand others, is passed over as uninteresting, while we aim our telescopes at the edge of the universe and conjecture extensively about the first few seconds after the Bang. It would appear that real problems, close at hand, are too difficult, and we must misdirect all attention into the esoteric and arcane, billions of light years beyond our data and understanding.

If you do a websearch on this question, as I recently did, you find that the answer is “a collision.” Yes, it is thought that all the planets gained their various tilts by accidental collisions in the distant past. That answer is so gloriously lazy and uninspired that at first I could not believe it. I thought that perhaps I had arrived at the Flat Earth PR page, and was reading another hedge from the hedge. But no, this is apparently as good as we can do on this one. It is somewhat like finding a squashed highway cone in the street and assuming it grew there that way.



More Tilt, Please! We need more Tilt! :D


OR---Cow Bell! :D
--biggest question raised by part 1. That being, “How can your equations explain tilt by straight-line influence of the charge field, when the bodies are rarely lined up? If we take the perturbations of the Sun and Jupiter upon the Earth as an example, the perturbing bodies need to be on opposite sides of the Earth for the mechanics to work. But for large parts of their orbits, this is not the case. Jupiter is often on the other side of the Sun from the Earth. Your mechanics doesn't work!”
Can anyone refute this info.? :?



HH 555 is the clearest example of a Herbig-Haro objectin the Pelican Nebula. In this image detail you can easily see the jet shooting out of the tip of the pillar indicating the presence of an unseen protostar.
Image
Are we all talking about the same thing? an HH without a protostar? :?
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

Spektralscavenger
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Spektralscavenger » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:03 pm

tholden wrote:
Spektralscavenger wrote:Is it possible that Uranus and Neptune were once a single bigger gaseous planet which splitted in two under great stress? Maybe that´s the "cosmic egg" breaking in two of mythology. Regarding axis tilts, usually the halves of a fissioning body spin CW-CCW one another.
Troy and I see it as likely that Uranus acquired its odd tilt by being the lead body in the HH string which entered the present solar plane at the ~26-degree angle from the south. I.e. that Uranus served as the "battering ram"...
Might have happened in this Solar System or not the general basis is rocky planets can blow up to pieces, gaseous planets (and stars) respond to extreme tension splitting. If relevant here the hypothesis is some violent interaction Jupiter-Saturn-littler "planet X" (which could be original to the Solar System or rather part of a binary system with Saturn) resulted in the fission of the littlest of the 3, maybe as recently as 12,000 years ago. Since then Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are around. Of course, could have been all along :|

Unfortunately, likely the most tortured world (with permission from Io) has erased any trace of its past. Was Mercury a moon of Saturn?

http://milesmathis.com/encel.pdf


PS: It´s me or you guys are abusing of the fleeting polar configuration?

Xuxalina Rihhia
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:30 pm

It looks like our present sun was part of a quintuple star system with Jupiter being a brown dwarf orbiting around the sun and far away, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune being brown dwarfs.

BTW, Merry Saturnalia and a Happy New Year!

Spektralscavenger
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Re: Herbig/Haro strings, Earth/Mars/Saturn/Neptune axis tilt

Unread post by Spektralscavenger » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:36 pm

First of all: happy new year!! :) :D

Another scenario: Uranus and Neptune orbited Saturn in exactly the same orbit, like the binary systems encircling the same center of masses. Earth, Mars and others (Mercury? Pluto? Triton?) were on the equator as usual. After capture Saturn suffers several encounters with Jupiter, which was by Saturn orbit or little closer. I can buy the Sun was 30% brighter and Jupiter 80% brighter (for instance) before the 3 giants entered in. Saturn loses power as well, punctuated by some flares. Jupiter and Saturn were more or less even but Jupiter had the Sun on its side, no hope for Saturn. The giant planets "slipped" upwards and little planets downwards to circumpolar orbits. Uranus, Neptune, Mars, Earth were alternating circumpolar trajectories and polar alignment for tens or even hundreds of thousands years. The last Jupiter-Saturn encounter, with Saturn weakened by Venus birth, broke the Saturn system.

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