- "The Berezovka Mammoth, [t]he most famous, accessible, and studied mammoth, is a 50-year-old male, found in a freshly eroded bank, 100 feet above Siberia’s Berezovka River in 1900.
- Much of the head, which was sticking out of the bank, had been eaten down to the bone by local wolves and other animals, but most of the rest was perfect."
- Several ribs, a shoulder blade, and pelvis were broken. Amazingly, the long bone in his right foreleg was crushed into about a dozen pieces, without noticeably damaging surrounding tissue. ... There had been considerable bleeding between the muscles and the fatty and connective tissues.
... The ice layer directly under the Berezovka mammoth contained some hair still attached to his body. Below his right forefoot was “the end of a very hairy tail ... of a bovine animal, probably [a] bison.” Also under the body were “the right forefoot and left hind foot of a reindeer ... The whole landslide on the Berezovka [River] was the richest imaginable storehouse of prehistoric remains.”
... To break the leg bone into many pieces without damaging surrounding tissue, rock ice or frozen muck etc must have piled up under the leg and the whole body and then something hard and heavy, like rock, wood, or a large chunk of ice must have fallen on the leg, like a sledge hammer. Similar objects may have broken the other bones as well, or the weight of more ice on top of the mammoth may have done it. The bleeding shows that the mammoth was still alive when the bone was broken.
... "The blood-vessels and even the fine capillaries were seen to be filled with brown coagulated blood, which, in many places still preserved its red colour. This is exactly the kind of evidence we look for when we want to know whether an animal has been drowned or suffocated. Asphyxia is always accompanied by the gorging of the capillaries with blood.
... In all, three mammoths and two rhinoceroses [showed signs that they] apparently suffocated. No other cause of death has been shown for the remaining frozen [large animals].
... [T]he mammoth’s mouth was filled with grass, which had been cropped, but not chewed and swallowed.
... Twenty-four pounds of undigested vegetation were removed from Berezovka [a mammoth] and analyzed by Russian scientist V. N. Sukachev. He identified more than 40 different species of plants: herbs, grasses, mosses, shrubs, and tree leaves. Many no longer grow that far north; others grow both in Siberia and as far south as Mexico. Dillow draws several conclusions from these remains:
The presence of so many varieties [of plants] that generally grow much to the south indicates that the climate of the region was milder than that of today.
The discovery of the ripe fruits of sedges, grasses, and other plants suggests that the mammoth died during [late] July or [early] August.
The mammoth must have been overwhelmed suddenly with a rapid deep freeze and instant death. The sudden death is proved by the unchewed bean pods still containing the beans that were found between its teeth, and the deep freeze is suggested by the well-preserved state of the stomach contents and the [fact that the mammoth was] edible meat [for wolves and dogs, which ate exposed parts of it].
... At normal body temperatures, stomach acids and enzymes break down vegetable material within an hour. What inhibited this process? The only plausible explanation is for the stomach to cool to about 40°F in ten hours or less. But because the stomach is protected inside a warm body (96.6°F for elephants), ... [e]xperiments have shown that the outer layers of skin would have had to drop suddenly to at least -175°F!
... Independently, Sanderson concluded, “The flesh of many of the animals found in the muck must have been very rapidly and deeply frozen, for its cells had not burst. ... Frozen-food experts have pointed out that to do this, starting with a healthy, live specimen, you would have to suddenly drop the temperature of the surrounding air to well below minus 150 degrees Fahrenheit.” [But the frozen muck and rock ice probably froze them much more than did the air. - LK]
[I]n local summer the polar mesopause [at about 53 miles or 85 km altitude above the poles] is the coldest place occurring naturally on earth: climatic temperatures are as low as -110° C (-230° F) and, on occasion, temperatures lower than -140° C (-285° F) have been recorded. Sometimes these low temperatures seem to be associated with thin cloud layers, which are best seen in twilight (when the mesosphere is still sunlit, but the surface is in the dark). Such clouds are called noctilucent clouds.
* The Hydroplate book says: [Muck] covers one-seventh of the earth’s land surface—all surrounding the Arctic Ocean. Muck occupies treeless, generally flat terrain, with no surrounding mountains from which the muck could have eroded. Russian geologists have drilled through 4,000 feet of this muck without hitting solid rock. Where did so much eroded material come from? What eroded it?
* Wikipedia says: Loess is an aeolian sediment formed by the accumulation of wind-blown silt, typically in the 20–50 micrometre size range, twenty percent or less clay and the balance equal parts sand and silt  that are loosely cemented by calcium carbonate.
Yedomas and Loess. In Siberia, frozen mammoths are frequently found in strange hills, 30–260 feet high, which Russian geologists call yedomas.... For example, the mammoth cemetery, containing remains of 156 mammoths, was in a yedoma. ... It is known that these hills were formed under cold, windy conditions, because they are composed of a powdery, homogeneous soil, honeycombed with thick veins of ice. Sometimes the ice, which several Russian geologists have concluded was formed simultaneously with the soil, accounts for 90% of the yedoma’s volume. ... Some yedomas contain many broken trees “in the wildest disorder.” ... Yedoma soil is similar to muck. ... It contains tiny plant remains, is high in salt and carbonate, ... and has more than two and a half times the carbon that is in all the world’s tropical forests! ... The Berezovka mammoth was found in a similar soil....
- The ice and mud were not deposited as hills. Instead, they were deposited as one thick layer. Later, as the ice began to melt in spots, water collected in the depressions, accelerating the melting near them. What is now left, after thousands of years of summer melting, are these hills. Because some yedomas are 260 feet tall, the initial deposition in the windy environment was at least 260 feet thick.
“We think that there was probably an impact which exploded in the air that sent these particles flying into the animals,” said Richard Firestone from the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. “In the case of the bison, we know that it survived the impact because there’s new bone growth around these marks.”
- The mammoth and bison remains all display small (about 2-3mm in size) perforations. Raised, burnt surface rings trace the point of entry of high-velocity projectiles; and the punctures are on only one side, consistent with a blast coming from a single direction.
- Viewed under an electron microscope, the embedded fragments appear to have exploded inside the tusk and bone, say the researchers. Shards have cut little channels.
- The sunken pieces are also magnetic, and tests show them to have a high iron-nickel content, but to be depleted in titanium.
- The ratios of different types of atoms in the fragments meant it was most unlikely they had originated on Earth, the team told the AGU meeting.
Lloyd wrote:The plasma column held a lot of ocean water from Earth.
Lloyd wrote: The plasma column lasted for several thousand years
Lloyd wrote: Cardona also said the plasma column was the source of the waters of the Great Flood.
Lloyd wrote:The Saturn System broke up somewhere near Jupiter and the asteroid belts
Lloyd wrote:But the main dumping seems to have been at the time of the breakup.
Lloyd wrote:As I've pointed out before, the "Great Deep" was actually in the sky. Cardona says the celestial disk around Saturn looked from Earth like an ocean, so that's what it referred to.
Lloyd wrote: Comparative mythology shows that the ancients meant the sky when they said the Great Deep or the Ocean.
Hair. The mammoth’s hairy coat no more implies an Arctic adaptation than a woolly coat does for a sheep. Mammoths lacked erector muscles that fluff up an animal’s fur and create insulating air pockets. Neuville, who conducted the most detailed study of mammoth skin and hair, wrote: “It appears to me impossible to find, in the anatomical examination of the skin and pelage [hair], any argument in favor of adaptation to the cold.”30 Long hair on a mammoth’s legs hung to its toes.33 Had it walked in snow, snow and ice would have caked on its hairy “ankles.” Each step into and out of snow would have pulled or worn away the “ankle” hair. All hoofed animals living in the Arctic, including the musk ox, have fur, not hair, on their legs.34 Fur, especially oily fur, holds a thick layer of stagnant air (an excellent insulator) between the snow and skin. With the mammoth’s greaseless hair, much more snow would touch the skin, melt, and increase the heat transfer 10- to 100-fold. Later refreezing would seriously harm the animal.
- Skin. Mammoth and elephant skin are similar in thickness and structure.35 Both lack oil glands, making them vulnerable to cold, damp climates. Arctic mammals have both oil glands and erector muscles—equipment absent in mammoths.36
- Elephants. The elephant, which is closely related to the mammoth,37 lives in tropical or temperate regions, not the Arctic. It requires “a climate that ranges from warm to very hot,” and “it gets a stomach ache if the temperature drops close to freezing.”38 Newborn elephants are susceptible to pneumonia and must be kept warm and dry.39 Hannibal, who crossed the Alps with 37 elephants, lost all but one due to cold weather.40
- Nearby Plants and Animals. The easiest and most accurate way to determine an extinct animal’s or plant’s environment is to identify familiar animals and plants buried nearby. For the mammoth, this includes rhinoceroses, tigers, horses, antelope,44 bison, and temperate species of grasses. All live in warm climates. Some burrowing animals are frozen, such as voles, which would not burrow in rock-hard permafrost. Even larvae of the warble fly have been found in a frozen mammoth’s intestine—larvae identical to those found in tropical elephants today.45 No one argues that animals and plants buried near the mammoths were adapted to the Arctic. Why do so for mammoths?
Slug said: it seems a shame to tar these elegant saturn breakup theories with the same "we know the answers to the unknowable" style of delivery, which is how it is often appearing to be presented.
In my opinion any theorized history of the solar system before intelligent beings were around to record it, can only with our current... level of knowledge and ability, remain theory.
Im not sure if i have just missed sections of the Cardona reading etc so please help with these:
Lloyd wrote: The plasma column held a lot of ocean water from Earth.
How is this known?
... Lloyd wrote: Cardona also said the plasma column was the source of the waters of the Great Flood.
Is there evidence for this? Ie did the ancients record the flood came after the plasma column (which would have existed their entire lives considering other assertions here) disappeared presumably fast enough?
Lloyd wrote: The plasma column lasted for several thousand years
What is the source of information that allows this to be stated as fact?
Lloyd wrote: The Saturn System broke up somewhere near Jupiter and the asteroid belts
How is this known?
Lloyd wrote: But the main dumping seems to have been at the time of the breakup.
I note you have phrased this just as a suggestion, but how then is this theorized concurrent events timeframe established to the accuracy of "seems to"?
Lloyd wrote: As I've pointed out before, the "Great Deep" was actually in the sky. Cardona says the celestial disk around Saturn looked from Earth like an ocean, so that's what it referred to.
... Lloyd wrote: Comparative mythology shows that the ancients meant the sky when they said the Great Deep or the Ocean.
How can anyone know how this would have appeared so convincingly to make a carte blanche statement like this?
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests