Electric Clouds

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread postby webolife » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:47 pm

harr, harr, harr :D :D
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:09 am

The "Morning Glory" cloud in this video is apparently rotating. Also the morphology has this interesting cork-screw twist to it. Could it perhaps be a Birkeland Current?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3isttyek ... re=related
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:13 pm

"Despite being studied extensively, the Morning Glory cloud is not clearly understood."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Glory_cloud
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby sjw40364 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:59 pm

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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby Corona » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:23 pm

sjw40364 wrote:Definitely caused by flow of current and magnetic fields, IMO.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... _small.jpg
http://www.wondermondo.com/Images/Ocean ... 2Oct03.jpg


interesting pictures! I have often wondered the same... especially the clouds that look filamentary in structure

great Tpod from a while back:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/ ... clouds.htm


couldn`t this be tested by flying into a cloud and measuring if there is any charge?
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:30 pm

Corona wrote:
sjw40364 wrote:Definitely caused by flow of current and magnetic fields, IMO.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... _small.jpg
http://www.wondermondo.com/Images/Ocean ... 2Oct03.jpg


interesting pictures! I have often wondered the same... especially the clouds that look filamentary in structure

great Tpod from a while back:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/ ... clouds.htm


couldn`t this be tested by flying into a cloud and measuring if there is any charge?


Yes, indeed.

I do think there should be a push to get private funding for an actual comprehensive measurement of relative voltages and electric fields in these clouds (that covers their morphological evolution). It's clear that government-funded "big science" and their friends in most universities are not going to do much of it. A Langmuir Probe would be handy, for a start.
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby Aardwolf » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:44 am

Isn't the fact that clouds discharge (ie lightening) enough to prove they hold a charge?
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:51 pm

Aardwolf wrote:Isn't the fact that clouds discharge (ie lightening) enough to prove they hold a charge?


Well, I don't know. We don't know much about how lightning can form in thunderstorms and why they produce such high-energy radiation such as gamma and x-rays. The mainstream certainly doesn't see them as leaky-capacitors within a cosmic electrical circuit.

There is certainly more data that can be gathered on ordinary clouds that don't arc-discharge. And of course, these interesting "Morning Glory" clouds that appear to rotate in some cases.
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby Corona » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:40 pm

PersianPaladin wrote:
Aardwolf wrote:Isn't the fact that clouds discharge (ie lightening) enough to prove they hold a charge?


Well, I don't know. We don't know much about how lightning can form in thunderstorms and why they produce such high-energy radiation such as gamma and x-rays. The mainstream certainly doesn't see them as leaky-capacitors within a cosmic electrical circuit.

There is certainly more data that can be gathered on ordinary clouds that don't arc-discharge. And of course, these interesting "Morning Glory" clouds that appear to rotate in some cases.


just noticed your sig. great website you got there- lots of stuff I haven`t come across yet. Keep up the great work!
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:47 pm

Corona wrote:
PersianPaladin wrote:
Aardwolf wrote:Isn't the fact that clouds discharge (ie lightening) enough to prove they hold a charge?


Well, I don't know. We don't know much about how lightning can form in thunderstorms and why they produce such high-energy radiation such as gamma and x-rays. The mainstream certainly doesn't see them as leaky-capacitors within a cosmic electrical circuit.

There is certainly more data that can be gathered on ordinary clouds that don't arc-discharge. And of course, these interesting "Morning Glory" clouds that appear to rotate in some cases.


just noticed your sig. great website you got there- lots of stuff I haven`t come across yet. Keep up the great work!


Thank you for the kind words. Constructive feedback is always welcome, I don't get enough.

:)
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby Drethon » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:15 am

PersianPaladin wrote:
Aardwolf wrote:Isn't the fact that clouds discharge (ie lightening) enough to prove they hold a charge?


Well, I don't know. We don't know much about how lightning can form in thunderstorms and why they produce such high-energy radiation such as gamma and x-rays. The mainstream certainly doesn't see them as leaky-capacitors within a cosmic electrical circuit.

There is certainly more data that can be gathered on ordinary clouds that don't arc-discharge. And of course, these interesting "Morning Glory" clouds that appear to rotate in some cases.


Slight hijack but has anyone ever tried using the "lightning rockets" (a rocket trailing a copper cable) to produce lightning when an electrical storm is not active in the area?
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:27 pm

One important think to note - just because the behaviour here LOOKS like that of a Birkeland Current, doesn't mean that it is one.

Some people would dismiss this as being just another "roll cloud" that we witness every other day. Mind you, roll clouds are not monolithic phenomena. Some are associated with a different variety of synoptic conditions. And some are more understood than others. And even if we are well familiar with these sort of formations and understand their conventional explanations - would it really be impertinent to ask if they are possibly more electrical than we assume them to be? The answer will obviously lie in a proper measurement of the respective electric and magnetic fields that arise as these clouds develop in different parts of the world. But for now, it is not improper to speculate on it in possible electrical terms (even though it could well be simply based on air pressure differences, rather than electricity).
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:08 am

You know what I think this might be folks?

Think of this laboratory experiment with water...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gozw-TxeX9w

Now, consider two different regions of our atmosphere as being analogous to two different water-filled beakers. These regions have considerably different electrical potential and charge and thus a considerable voltage develops between the regions. Clouds are of course, composed of condensed water vapour gas. Now, provided the overall synoptic conditions are just right - you could get a floating water-bridge in our atmosphere. The conditions need to be right - for example, you don't want this distinct horizontal voltage gradient to be cancelled out by other dynamic phenomena such as strong frontal winds or disrupted by vorticity such as mesoscale storms, etc.

If the pre-dawn weather remains calm and clear, the Morning Glory continues to roll south-southwest, appearing over Burketown in the early morning, where the glider pilots are waiting. The clouds rarely bring rain, but are often associated with a short, intense wind squall near the surface. Morning Glories don’t usually last long – after an hour or so of sun on them, they evaporate.

http://www.geographical.co.uk/Magazine/ ... ay_10.html


How do we get such a large bridge? One could assume that the conducting path is better than that found from water-bridge experiments with water through air; as well as the fact that all of the matter is entrained against the force of gravity.

Now of course, measurements are needed to prove this hypothesis.
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Re: Is this cloud really a Birkeland Current?

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:42 pm

The "Undulatus asperatus" clouds are also interesting:-


The clouds are most closely related to undulatus clouds.[3] Although they appear dark and storm-like, they tend to dissipate without a storm forming.[7] The ominous-looking clouds have been particularly common in the Plains states of the United States, often during the morning or midday hours following convective thunderstorm activity.[8] As of June 2009 the Royal Meteorological Society is gathering evidence of the type of weather patterns in which undulatus asperatus clouds appear, so as to study how they form and decide whether they are distinct from other undulatus clouds.[3][7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undulatus_asperatus

Interesting how they follow the wake of storm-activity. Perhaps the remnant ionised particles (namely positive ions lingering from the effects of the storm) are enough to produce significant electrical potential in certain areas where moisture-levels and voltage gradients are sufficient? Who knows.

Some pics:-


Notice how the filaments seem to twist:-

http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wp ... 00x450.jpg

http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wp ... 00x450.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Fzq94YVbHHM/S ... oud_48.jpg

http://www.meteorologynews.com/wp-conte ... ratus4.jpg

http://cloudappreciationsociety.org/ver ... hansen.jpg

http://jamesradke.files.wordpress.com/2 ... eratus.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... clouds.JPG


A close observation of the images also seems to tentatively suggest that the Birkeland Currents typically occur in close-associated twisting pairs (look at the two-pronged fork pattern at the ends of the filaments on the final image).

Again, this is obviously not proof of anything. But in light of the credible formation of Birkeland-Current behaviour in the floating-water-bridge; the occurrence of such field-aligned currents in our atmosphere should be entertained as a distinct possibility under certain conditions.


This is an excellent website btw:-

http://weathervortex.com/canvas.html
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Nuclear Fission/Fusion In The Upper Atmosphere?

Unread postby Maol » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:22 pm

Wut whuut are they saying here?

Noctilucent clouds are just streaks of Prof. Louis Frank’s small comets depositing water on the planet.
http://smallcomets.physics.uiowa.edu/


http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... teorsmoke/

Meteor Smoke Makes Strange Clouds

August 7, 2012: Anyone who's ever seen a noctilucent cloud or “NLC” would agree: They look alien. The electric-blue ripples and pale tendrils of NLCs reaching across the night sky resemble something from another world.

Researchers say that's not far off. A key ingredient for the mysterious clouds comes from outer space.

"We've detected bits of 'meteor smoke' embedded in noctilucent clouds," reports James Russell of Hampton University, principal investigator of NASA's AIM mission to study the phenomenon. "This discovery supports the theory that meteor dust is the nucleating agent around which NLCs form."



Russell explains: "When methane makes its way into the upper atmosphere, it is oxidized by a complex series of reactions to form water vapor. This extra water vapor is then available to grow ice crystals for NLCs."

If this idea is correct, noctilucent clouds are a sort of "canary in a coal mine" for one of the most important greenhouse gases.

Image
A graphic prepared by Prof. James Russell of Hampton University shows how methane, a greenhouse gas, boosts the abundance of water at the top of Earth's atmosphere. This water freezes around "meteor smoke" to form icy noctilucent clouds.
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