Electric Clouds

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Curious Cloud Formations linked to Quakes

Unread post by MGmirkin » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:43 pm

StefanR wrote:It seems Internet is revolutionizing science. 8-) :D
About time, too! Since the internet / web were designed originally to accommodate the sharing of scientific information between physically separated scientists / institutions. It's, of course, found far more mundane and real-world applications. But the fact that science is slowly being churned up in its wake is probably a good thing.

Since we're on the subject of anti-tectonics, or "new tectonics," I might as well forward these items some colleagues pointed me to online:

(Unusual Earthquakes Measured Off Oregon; right in our backyard, so to speak)
http://www.physorg.com/news127238826.html
Scientists listening to underwater microphones have detected an unusual swarm of earthquakes off central Oregon, something that often happens before a volcanic eruption - except there are no volcanoes in the area.

[...]

On the hydrophones, the quakes sound like low thunder and are unlike anything scientists have heard in 17 years of listening, Dziak said. Some of the quakes have also been detected by earthquake instruments on land.

[...]

The quakes have not followed the typical pattern of a major shock followed by a series of diminishing aftershocks, and few have been strong enough to be felt on shore.

The Earth's crust is made up of plates that rest on molten rock, which are rubbing together. When the molten rock, or magma, erupts through the crust, it creates volcanoes.

That can happen in the middle of a plate. When the plates lurch against each other, they create earthquakes along the edges.
(Earthquake swarm stumps scientists)
http://blog.oregonlive.com/pdxgreen/200 ... cient.html
The quakes are puzzling because they are not occurring along the edge of the tectonic plates that make up the Earth's crust, where geologists are used to seeing seismic activity. Instead, they're centered in the Juan de Fuca Plate, a span of crust off the Northwest Coast, about 40 miles from the plate's edge.

[...]

The swarm is also odd because it did not come in the form of a main shock, followed by steadily decreasing tremors - known as aftershocks - afterwards. That's typically what geologists see when an earthquake occurs on a fault within one of the plates.

"This thing has been a steady stream of earthquakes through time," Dziak said.

Another explanation might be volcanic activity on the seafloor. But Dziak considers that unlikely because it's most common along the edges of plates or around known volcanic "hot spots" such as Hawaii.
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~Michael Gmirkin
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Electric Clouds

Unread post by thane » Wed May 14, 2008 4:53 pm

Please review:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=580_1210628568&p=1

Then tell me if you think there is a potential Electric explanation.

Also - perhaps we need a new forum topic area for "Terrestrial" EU items.

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by MGmirkin » Wed May 14, 2008 4:59 pm

thane wrote:Also - perhaps we need a new forum topic area for "Terrestrial" EU items.
That would be the Electric Universe - Planetary Science section of the forums (a bit of a catch all that includes terrestrial features & processes, things happening on moons or specific features thereof). Which is where this has now been moved.

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~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by MGmirkin » Wed May 14, 2008 5:02 pm

thane wrote:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=580_1210628568&p=1

Then tell me if you think there is a potential Electric explanation.
Interesting, and... unknown. But pretty cool. :)

~Michael Gmirkin
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"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by bboyer » Wed May 14, 2008 7:07 pm

See also this thread in this same forum for similar cloud formation, though not as clearly repeated as in the video you linked: Recovered: Earth (Telluric) Currents. Interesting phenomena, whatever accounts for them.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by Steve Smith » Fri May 16, 2008 8:43 am


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Re: Curious Cloud Formations linked to Quakes

Unread post by MGmirkin » Tue May 20, 2008 6:04 pm

(Earthquake clouds related to China quake? Several minutes before?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzVamNQzfYA

Looks a lot like an aurora, on a small scale. Perhaps atmospheric currents induced by Telluric currents? As opposed to Telluric currents which are sometimes thought to be modified by atmospheric currents. Opposite plates in a discharge (spherical self-repairing capacitor?)...

Just a thought. But, might make sense in light of some recent papers on P-holes in Gabbroic rocks basically equating to Telluric currents, etc. IE, motion of positive holes in rock is equivalent to a form of electric current. So, if you get p-holes happening around the time of an earthquake, or just before, the might it not stand to reason that currents in the rock might induce currents in the atmosphere, the opposite plate of the discharge?

Also, in light of the recent articles on earthquake precursors...

(Evidence Mounts for Electromagnetic Earthquake Precursors)
http://www.wired.com/science/discoverie ... uake_alarm

(Large Earthquakes May Broadcast Warnings, But Is Anyone Tuning In To Listen?)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 201254.htm

And various other papers and articles:

(Electric currents streaming out of stressed igneous rocks – A step towards understanding pre-earthquake low frequency EM emissions)
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/SID/ed ... anding.pdf

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed May 21, 2008 3:33 pm

- The first post above with the video of parallel cloud banks reminds me of the parallel stripes I've noticed in the Sahara Desert and on Greenland, as seen on Google maps etc. Someone had pointed out that it was recently discovered that sand in sandstorms is lofted by electrical repulsion, like with dust devils, and that made me think of the line of parallel dust devils on Mars on one TPOD.
- Now here's something equally strange, I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKMTSDzU1Z4 - a video of rainbow-colored clouds shortly before a recent earthquake in China. We know that lights on the ground are associated with earthquakes. Can the same lights reach into clouds? If rainbow-colored clouds have an electrical cause, could rainbows also? Or is it just the prism effect and is that effect completely unrelated to electrical forces? I guess it can't be unrelated, if light is produced by electron motions. What's the difference between normal light and anode glow etc? One thing is that normal light covers the whole spectrum of frequencies up to gamma rays. Anode glow seems to be confined to a narrow range of red light.

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by MGmirkin » Thu May 22, 2008 12:03 pm

Lloyd wrote:Now here's something equally strange, I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKMTSDzU1Z4 - a video of rainbow-colored clouds shortly before a recent earthquake in China.


Yup, already pointed that out on the other thread... Tempted to merge the two so discussion aren't forked. Anywho... ;)
Lloyd wrote:We know that lights on the ground are associated with earthquakes. Can the same lights reach into clouds? If rainbow-colored clouds have an electrical cause, could rainbows also?


Pretty sure that rainbows have a more mundane cause, IE refraction of light through water droplets suspended in the air, as they seem to be related to observational geometry. IE, you can only see the rainbow from specific angles. If it were a luminous phenomenon, it would be visible from all directions / sides relative to the luminous phenomenon. IE, observers on all sides of a physical object should be able to see the object from their perspective. The geometric relationship of position versus visibility to the observer argues for the refraction / geometric explanation. Or, so it seems to me.
Lloyd wrote:Or is it just the prism effect and is that effect completely unrelated to electrical forces?


Refraction, yes. Pretty sure.

Emission of photons vs. changing the path of existing photons, I think, may answer the question? IE, light traveling through mediums of differing density / composition may affect the path light takes through those media.

However, a valid question might be whether the light interacts with the medium, or simply passes through it more-or-less unchanged. IE, do photons get absorbed and re-emitted by the medium, or do they simply pass through intact? If absorbed, would the re-emitted photon necessarily be emitted in the same direction / wavelength as the absorbed photon, or would the light end up being absorbed then scattered in all directions?

But, I think that rainbows are more related to Refraction than Fluorescence or Phosphorescence.

Just some cursory thoughts...

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by Krackonis » Thu May 22, 2008 2:28 pm

I would assume this is a wave or standing wave created by a dip in the ionosphere. Or also a indication of a positive movement of protons/electrons in the subsurface of the planet. However, I would go with ionosphere first.

I could envision a geomagnetic storm causing a ripple in our magnetosphere/ionosphere. We know there is a steady vibration already. I believe it is called the schuman resonance.

Of course, there should have been other notable effects that day and observing that data would likely reveal a more convincing argument. One such would be a video of the aurora at the time and of course, solar observations.
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Speaking of Aurorae

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu May 22, 2008 7:21 pm

Speaking of aurorae, the rare ones I've seen here near St. Louis seem to be only reddish, but aren't they of various colors in the polar regions? So are aurorae types of anode glows? Do they ever come in a sort of rainbow of colors? If so, does refraction again apply? Are anode glows discussed anywhere mentioning colors other than red? Aha. I see it has been discussed here http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... ?f=8&t=175 and here http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... low+#p1440. I don't have time to read them though just yet. This site http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/Key2Free.pdf talks about producing a green anode glow. This one http://prola.aps.org/abstract/RMP/v12/i2/p87_1 appears to mention a yellow anode glow. And this one http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@es ... 11035.html talks about blue anode glow. I don't find purple or violet, but Wal seemed to speak of the anode glow of the brown dwarf, Saturn.
Last edited by Lloyd on Thu May 22, 2008 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Speaking of Aurorae

Unread post by MGmirkin » Thu May 22, 2008 7:36 pm

Lloyd wrote:Speaking of aurorae, the rare ones I've seen here near St. Louis seem to be only reddish, but aren't they of various colors in the polar regions? So are aurorae types of anode glows? Do they ever come in a sort of rainbow of colors? If so, does refraction again apply? Are anode glows discussed anywhere mentioning colors other than red?
Yes, I think that auroras have been known to be a few different colors at different times, and depending on what atoms / molecules get excited enough to become self-luminous. Auroras, are, I believe a "glow discharge" (hopped up above dark discharges, IE they're visible, but below the arc discharge threshold [lightning]). I don't think refraction is as much an issue with auroras, as they're something more like fluorescent tubes. IE, auroras are "self-luminous," so to speak. It's is actually atoms getting "excited" and emitting photons, as opposed to simply bending preexisting light waves. That seems apparent since auroras can be seen with the same structure from many vantage points (though the view of it will change based upon position), so it doesn't seem to have a geometrical component to whether or not you can see it.

That's not to say that the light it emits couldn't be subject to refraction after it's emitted, if it passes through some other more or less dense medium in the meanwhile. Though I'd assume there wouldn't be TOO much of that in the atmosphere, except maybe if seen through a cloud or something...? Not sure whether/ how that would work. Sprites are a similarly plasma / self-luminous phenomenon like auroras and glow discharge tubes (neon lights, fluorescent tubes).

Sprites, Elves, and Glow Discharge Tubes

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~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Back to Rainbow Cloud

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu May 22, 2008 7:44 pm

So I'm wondering whether the light in the rainbow-colored clouds was separated into colors before or after encountering the clouds?

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by Steve Smith » Fri May 23, 2008 4:00 pm

"Rainbow-colered clouds" are sundogs and not aurorae.

For example:

Image

Aurorae are colorful because of the elements in the atmosphere that are energized by the electrical energy flowing into the Earth-circuit. Oxygen at 60 miles is yellow-green, while at 200 miles it glows red. Ionized nitrogen produces blue light and molecular nitrogen red-purple. Since those are the predominant gases in the atmosphere, those are the primary auroral colors.

Image

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Re: Electric Clouds

Unread post by MGmirkin » Fri May 23, 2008 4:44 pm

Steve Smith wrote:"Rainbow-colored clouds" are sundogs and not aurorae.
Did you watch the YouTube video here?

(10 mins before the 2008 Sichuan earthquake in China)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzVamNQzfYA

The colorful displays look a bit more "glow discharge-y" and filamentary than the sundogs, though I could be mistaken... Might just be cause the clouds themselves are filamentary-ish.

As I look at the video a few more times (hard to consider it fully until the brain have fully soaked it in and processed it), I see that the colors do appear to form a "spectrum" shot, IE, reds at the top and yellows, greens and blues further down in a continuum. That does seem to indicate a spreading of the spectrum of regular light as through a prism. So, perhaps you're correct that this is more of a refractive / rainbow issue than a glow discharge issue. Unless glow discharges can create a similar spectrum continuum. I'm guessing not so much on the latter, though? So, your answer is most likely the correct one. Thanks Steve! :D

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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